Italy's bishops pass Vatican-backed rule that child molestation does not have to be reported

Go back through History since the Council of Nicaea and tell me where at any time they haven't been doing something shady? This institution isn't just responsible for the rape of innocent children and nun's, they have contributed to some of the worst genocides ever recorded and that includes the persecution of Christian's before they decided to sign up to Christianity. They have been one lying hypocrite all along. They even integrated Pagan idols into this new form of Christianity and people are so stupid, they don't even realise they are worshipping Roman pagan God's at the same time. Take a look at this crap which is under the Vatican. If they were true Christian's this stuff wouldn't be there.

Why should Catholic priests intervene when they become aware of child being abused? God certainly doesn't! Doesn't the Vatican try to mirror Heaven on Earth and the Pope, The Vicar of Christ?

Well Jesus Christ didn't/doesn't interfere after hearing confessions and forgiving sins either. You know, the sinner is forgiven and told to "Go and sin no more". In the meantime the victim is told that they must also forgive their abuser, or not be forgiven themselves for that bad thought or that nip of sacramental wine they pilfered.

Pffft!

reply to post by windword

not to be disagreeable in the least
imho
you missed a step
its called the collection plate..
just sayin'
otherwise an excellent point

reply to post by Danbones


True that, indulgences, the oil that keeps the squeaky wheel quite!

I should also add this to my "observation" (What's a priest to do?!):

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

That a lot times for little Jimmy to have to "bend over"!

reply to post by windword


What are we 'allowed' to do then, after the 491st offense? (sorry, I don't have the bible memorized).

I find it hard to accept that we have a benevolent God who would rather have clergymen keep secrets when children are being abused. (confession) Even harder to accept that all these sins are okay with God.
I'd rather expect that the 'sinners' would be weeded out as they try to climb the religious ladder, but no...they get promoted.

Colour me confused....
jacy

Someone tell me again about WHY we protestants are Heretics?
www.youtube.com...


MINES BETTER!

reply to post by jacygirl


As above to below! The Church is "Trickle Down Morality"!

As I said in another thread,

I believe that 99.9% of the leaders in our society have been, and are presently, psychopaths. Psychopaths don't experience emotions the same way as most people and find situations that make them feel something.

The higher up the ladder, the less "humanity" exists in their emotional affect, and the less their ability to relate to emotional needs, imho.

jacygirl
reply to post by windword

 

What are we 'allowed' to do then, after the 491st offense? (sorry, I don't have the bible memorized).

I find it hard to accept that we have a benevolent God who would rather have clergymen keep secrets when children are being abused. (confession) Even harder to accept that all these sins are okay with God.
I'd rather expect that the 'sinners' would be weeded out as they try to climb the religious ladder, but no...they get promoted.

Colour me confused....
jacy

The only thing that people should do is turn away from them. The Bible warns about these types of people

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, who end will be according to their works (Cor 11:13, 15)

Too many people have been deceived by these people and continue to be deceived.

Danbones
reply to post by Harvin

 

elites are just people
it is said that many good ones were sold down the river on the titanic by some of the bad ones
trouble is
the good lose because they can't find it in them selves to stoop as low as the bad enjoy stooping

and its hard to come back from being corrupted...

I believe in the one strike rule in regards to crimes against children that involve sexual abuse, harsh physical abuse and murder. One strike removes a person from society PERMANENTLY.

I was wondering as to the context of the headline and if it was relaying what local laws require. As I said, just a quick search reveals that some parts of Europe place no obligation on a citizen to report abuse and in places like the U.S there is a requirement to report child abuse in the law.

To address another point being made here - I see statistics that clearly state these crimes are no more prevalent with priests than the general population and even reports that it is less prevalent.

In a way I can understand the celibacy requirement, the priests know ahead of time what the requirements are. Fact is that people who are celibate are no more likely to sexually abuse children anyway and as a civilization we are way too over sexed.

Regarding "the elites" - do some research because statistically the "elites" have nothing as far as these crimes over the general population... And to go further, i think much of what we read about "elites" only elevates them to a mythological status...something I do not agree with at all. I see no point to feed the Frankenstein.

reply to post by windword


Interesting point-Its like the saying goes
"Power corrupts,and absolute power corrupts absolutley."

But are you saying that those who get "to the top" become psychopaths from their journey there,or that they have always been psychopaths and are attracted to power?
It wouldn't surprise me if its a bit of both.

jacygirl
reply to post by windword

 

What are we 'allowed' to do then, after the 491st offense? (sorry, I don't have the bible memorized).

I find it hard to accept that we have a benevolent God who would rather have clergymen keep secrets when children are being abused. (confession) Even harder to accept that all these sins are okay with God.
I'd rather expect that the 'sinners' would be weeded out as they try to climb the religious ladder, but no...they get promoted.

Colour me confused....
jacy

It should be clear now that Satan has not only infiltrated the church, but now works to control the policies of the church.

People of faith would be wise to abandon organized religion completely, and worship privately apart from the church. Especially in these times.

jacygirl

stirling

That said...humanity been screwing its children for a good long time....not just the fat priests...

Sadly that's a very true statement.
I just don't understand why SO many people use the 'word of God' to manipulate, oppress, suppress and victimize people/children.

Oh yeah....fear. Control. Power.
Where is the love?

jacy

Matthew 25:45
"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

biblehub.com...

Anyone who knows and did not help the child is judged already. If of course they even believed the book they say they follow.

The bible does not tell you to confess your sins to any man so keeping criminals secrets in confession is a joke.

168617

jacygirl
reply to post by Danbones

 

Aren't they here to help us, do good, all that stuff? No?

“A large part of the history of [Ed.: mandatory] celibacy is the story of the degradation of women and – an invariable consequence – frequent abortions and infanticide.

In the ninth century, many monasteries were the haunts of homosexuals; many convents were brothels in which babies were killed and buried…Promiscuity was rife in monasteries and convents. The great Ivo of Chartres (1040-1115) tells of whole convents with inmates who were nunsonly in name. They had often been abandoned by their families and were really prostitutes.” – Peter de Rosa (“Vicars of Christ”; 1988; Pages 404 and 408)

BRUSSELS - The criminal prosecution of yet another Pope came closer to reality this month as Italian politicians agreed to work with the ITCCS in a common law court action against the papacy for its haboring of a wanted fugitive from justice: deposed Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger.

The agreement came after a new eyewitness confirmed the involvement of Ratzinger in a ritual child sacrifice in Holland in August of 1987."I saw Joseph Ratzinger murder a little girl at a French chateau in the fall of 1987" stated the witness, who was a regular participant in the cult ritual torture and killing of children.

"It was ugly and horrible, and it didn't happen just once. Ratzinger often took part. He and (Dutch Catholic Cardinal) Alfrink and (Bilderberger founder) Prince Bernhard were some of the more prominent men who took part." This new witness confirms the account of Toos Nijenhuis, a Dutch woman who went public on May 8 with her eyewitness account of similar crimes involving Ratzinger, Alfrink and Bernhard.

Not sure about the 2nd one but either way, this organisation are not serving your best interest. They serve their best interests and then give you a good old media good guy report.

Vatican Crimes

I wonder if they also do the Cremation of Care ceremony that is done in Bohemian Grove. The "sacrifice" which is not supposed to be a real person is covered and the group who moved it hide behind an are unseen for a bit on their way, no way to tell if the fake was substituted for a real bound and gagged little girl virgin sacrifice.

Maybe the world is truly in the hands of one power.

reply to post by ausername


There is definitely a presence of evil in this world.
Psychopaths? Without a doubt.
Are psychopaths made or born? (I think made). So what makes them? I think ignorance. (and fear).

I don't believe that no one here on earth knows the real story about religion, our beginnings, etc. But we get fed fairy tales, and a book of rules. Us and them rules because obviously the psychopathic predators don't play by the same rules that they preach to us.

If we were all made aware of the reality of our beginnings on this planet....the truth about religion (is it really the word of God or man-made?)...perhaps we wouldn't have such frightened ignorant people.
So many people 'toe the line' in order to escape an eternity in Hell, not because doing good to others is their motivation. What if we removed the 'Hell factor'? And Heaven for that matter.

Losing track here, sorry. (Trying to respond to 3 people in one reply, lol).
I would prefer to live in a kinder, gentler world. Too much suffering here, and too much fear and ignorance.
jacygirl

reply to post by Danbones


For a number of reasons, I have more faith in Francis than this. Pun sorta intended.

And as a charter member of the failed Catholics club I am keenly interested in seeing how this plays out.

This could be the catalyst that causes a huge rift within the church and is exactly what Francis needs to fulfill his mission as it cuts to the core of two fundamental tenets and building blocks of the church:

The sanctity & secrecy of the confessional, and the duty to protect the innocent and prevent/punish/expel those who do them harm for their own twisted benefit.

From the churches perspective which is more important? Which serves the greater good? Who decides?

If you're standing in Francis' shoes the answers are easy. He decides.

And in weighing the two conflicting tenets, he need only look to the words & teachings of Jesus to find his answer. Since the church is primarily based on the books of the New Testament, he need look no further than there to see the multitude of examples supporting the latter, beginning with the golden rule "Do unto others..." etc. etc, vs. not *one* word about the sanctity of the confessional as that was a creation of man and the church. And although I believe the confessional is and has been a very positive aspect of the church, when forced to choose between the two, it's a no-brainer. And that gives him the reason, leverage, "moral authority" and rock-solid platform to do what he must.

And this is all about a catalyst. The fact that it's also the right thing to do is simply a bonus.

So now we come back to the real purpose of my post and it has nothing to do with moralizing or espousing any particular religious point of view.

Francis is there for a reason. He is the right man at the right time and he has a job to do.

A very big job.

He needs to fundamentally re-make & re-build the Catholic church. And the reason he needs to do so has nothing to do with religion or beliefs and everything to do with the power that the church wields in this world politically, financially and spiritually.

Whether or not he can do it without first destroying the church as it is today is beyond my ken. But I don't think so as this may be a case of destruction being an integral & necessary part of creation.

And if he does it right and is truly gifted he'll not only get the Catholics, he'll sweep along most of the protestants and other Christians, and even some followers of non-Christian faiths.

I also believe he'll be vilified and excoriated as part of the process. Not unlike Judas who absolutely got the worst rap in the history of mankind. I hope I'm wrong about that, but I don't think so.

Either way, I do believe he is truly the last pope. Looks like Malachy may have got that right. He just needs the right reason or event to start things rolling. The only question is will he have the strength to do so.

On a final note, the televised 3D event later this month featuring Francis & Benedict canonizing 2 previous popes is almost too delicious not to take note of. If Francis is wavering in his convictions to do what he must, there may be some high strangeness associated with this event to help fortify him and give him the steel he needs to complete his mission.

Now *that* would be some show.

A new covenant indeed. Stay tuned...

reply to post by Char-Lee


I am under no doubt that we are under the sway of the evil one. The sad thing is that the Vatican branches out to so many of the organisations and world leaders that we believe are doing the right thing by us and if that is the case then they are no better also. Maybe all the issues around the world are just the bidding of the Vatican through governments. It wouldn't surprise me if they were going for Roman Empire version 2.0.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse

But are you saying that those who get "to the top" become psychopaths from their journey there,or that they have always been psychopaths and are attracted to power?
It wouldn't surprise me if its a bit of both.

I think that psychopaths are attracted to power and are likely to be found in powerful positions. One reason is because they can't be content or find enjoyment in simple pleasure, and because power gives them a sense of control over these pesky emotional folk, whom they can't relate to. The ladder to success favors ruthless people without regrets and who feel no remorse.

I think they see their power as being the equivalent of being a successful human being, where they are actually deeply insecure about that reality. They know they aren't normal, and don't want to be found out that they have no conscience and cant feel emotions like the rest of us. They learn how to manipulate human emotions and how to distract people from finding out the truth about their hollowness, lack of shame and empathy.

Psychopaths Run the World

"Most people think of a psychopath as a rare creature found only in the lowest levels of society. However, the reverse is true. They are not rare, but actually quite common, and you are more likely to find psychopaths in the boardroom than on the wrong side of the tracks. The reason is that, the more competitive a particular environment is, the more ruthless the use of the Cheating Strategy becomes. Within the highest circles of power and wealth, a lack of pity and remorse is practically a prerequisite to success, and only the psychopathic mentality can thrive. Living at the expense of the rest of humanity would be an impossible situation in a rational society."
www.examiner.com...

jacygirl
reply to post by ausername

 

There is definitely a presence of evil in this world.
Psychopaths? Without a doubt.
Are psychopaths made or born? (I think made). So what makes them? I think ignorance. (and fear).

Irresistible temptations, once hooked on the vices and sins of evil, a person is damned, and under the influence and complete control of evil. Doesn't really matter if you apply psychological analysis or not, it is what it is. No one is completely immune to the temptations and influences of evil. All are born innocent.

I don't believe that no one here on earth knows the real story about religion, our beginnings, etc. But we get fed fairy tales, and a book of rules. Us and them rules because obviously the psychopathic predators don't play by the same rules that they preach to us.

Religion is the creation of man, the texts and words of men intended to be the words and will of God, all organized religion at all levels is inherently corruptible. Faith should be much more simple. Every human is born into this world with a moral compass, we all inherently know right from wrong, good from evil etc. We can choose the path of evil, or choose a better path.

Where evil prevails, there is a proportional absence of God.

If we were all made aware of the reality of our beginnings on this planet....the truth about religion (is it really the word of God or man-made?)...perhaps we wouldn't have such frightened ignorant people.
So many people 'toe the line' in order to escape an eternity in Hell, not because doing good to others is their motivation. What if we removed the 'Hell factor'? And Heaven for that matter.

You have an immortal soul. There is an afterlife. Whether you choose to believe or not is your choice. In the end everything really does matter. As for the rest already addressed above.

what i have trouble wrapping my skull around is the concept of duality:
the judgmental forgiving god?

hell or forgiveness?

and to play devils advocate here
is blaming the "debble" not avoidance of the responsibility we have to decide and carry out justice?

reply to post by Danbones


Members of the clergy, and anyone else who abuses children in any way, will be judged thusly-

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

God never forgets.