Should people without children pay higher taxes?

th3dudeabides
reply to post by watchitburn

 

It should be the other way around. Those with more kids should pay more taxes. I don't think my taxes should pay for another's brood. We have too many people as it is. I'll be damned if I more taxes for being responsible and limiting my reproduction.

Newborn babies, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants destroy the wage negotiating power of the 99% and the 1% know this. The "owners of capital" want to keep "baby making" as an "incentive". In contrast taxing people who make babies and use more resources would quickly turn "baby making" into a "disincentive". Which is why they will NEVER do something like that because more babies "on the way" gives the "owners of capital" absolute control over the wages of the 99%

There has ALWAYS been an economic system at work in the USA that limited the number of able bodied workers whom would be PAID and those whom WOULD NOT be paid. The “owners of capital” learned their lesson about labor shortages POST the “Black Death” and figured out from that day forward how to keep wages down and the number of potential available laborers at maximum levels, while forcing them to compete for scarce available "paid labor" positions.

In the past when there wasn’t enough money to go around to pay both wages & PROFITS the “owners of capital” simply brought in more indentured servant immigrants (Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc) or used flat out slave labor (Blacks, Native Americans, domestic prisoners, POW’s, etc). The only difference between now and then is that “owners of capital” can’t LEGALLY have slaves or indentured servants anymore, BUT they have the same pressures as before, to keep their high wages flowing and laborers working even when there isn’t enough “PIE” to go around to pay those laborers for services rendered. The mechanisms today that replaces slaves and indentured servants are the following: longer than needed formal education for basic employment, off-shoring of labor, forced retirement, prisoners and welfare.

Make note, my concern is NOT economic growth for the "owners of capital" only increased wages for the rest. My point is that such a situation where "baby making" is reduced to zero, is only bad for the "owners of capital", not the laborers, in most cases. If labor does not have the bargaining chip of Union's, then all they have left is to willingly decrease populations competing over scarce jobs in the larger market.

Taxes should be lower for parents. In Vancouver it costs $1,800/month for a single child to be in daycare for the parent to work. That is a minimum. Why SHOULD people have kids if they cannot afford to raise them even with a well above minimum wage salary.

Why should parents pay as much as single people who are not contributing to the population

Oh! You think wr have too many people? That is what the powers to be WANT you to think so you feel guilty for being alive.

remember. 2 parents with 1 child reduces the population. 2 parents with 2 children maintains the population. 3 or more increases. Parents with 2 children are not over populating even if that WAS problem.

reply to post by MALBOSIA

Why should parents pay as much as single people who are not contributing to the population

Because more people equals more infrastructure, government services, environmental concerns etc.

Maintaining the population is not a concern at this moment. Supporting such a large population is the concern.

MALBOSIA
Why should parents pay as much as single people who are not contributing to the population

Oh! You think wr have too many people? That is what the powers to be WANT you to think so you feel guilty for being alive.

It has NOTHING to do with overpopulation, you're simply trying to obfuscate my main point, by pandering to those with children.

You didn't read ANYTHING I wrote about decreased wages versus increased population. Reread ALL OF IT, maybe you'll learn something in the process. Make note, my concern is NOT economic growth for the "owners of capital" only increased wages for the rest. My point is that such a situation, where "baby making" is disincentivized, is only bad for the "owners of capital", not the wage laborers, in most cases. Recorded wage increases for, non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the Black Death PROVES THIS! If labor does not have the bargaining chip of Union's to keep wages up, then all they have left is to voluntarily decrease populations competing over scarce jobs in the larger market.

Its clear you don't understand this point. People making children whom WILL be jobless and skill-less labor in the future should be disincentivized from doing so. If the government and corporations won't do it, then regular people will have to start reinforcing it culturally, or as plain old vigilantes.

For people without children, babies make their wages go down, make their taxes increase and inflate the cost of vital goods & services, due to increased demand coupled with the "preservation of profits at all costs" mindset of corporate leadership.

I'll repeat, its not simply about "wealth redistribution" and taxing those without children more, its about overabundance of labor on the market and the ability of the 1% to artificially drive down wages of the 99%. When the Black Death came about and wiped out "excess labor", the 1%'ers of the day somehow found "extra money" to pay said labor, for services rendered. Which means it was always available and wages could have been higher previously, but instead the 1%, of the day, chose to play the game, "pit the desperate against each other".

Keeping the above in mind, what is a newborn baby good for really these days? Especially if there are going to be LESS jobs available in the NEAR future due to increased automation and corporate labor cost-cutting? I can do without any more newborn human babies on earth, in fact all of us can.

You want to save a life, adopt one of the tens of millions of unwanted children that are already here!

reply to post by watchitburn


No , but I think anyone who considers themselves a Liberal Democrat should . After all , they are the ones who are pissing All our Tax Dollars away on People who Don't Pay ANY .........

Aphorism
reply to post by MALBOSIA

 

Why should parents pay as much as single people who are not contributing to the population

Because more people equals more infrastructure, government services, environmental concerns etc.

Maintaining the population is not a concern at this moment. Supporting such a large population is the concern.

So you believe people are a drain on the economy and infrastructure. More people. More payers in the future. I think borrowing/taxing is the problem when it should be printing/spending. Off topic I know but you won't convince me that we should lower our population to what could be handled under our current debt load. Tgat sounds too morbid.

reply to post by boohoo


we are all so sorry for breathing your air boss. Sorry for diluting your worth.

What are babies good for??? Have one and you will know. Maybe you will learn something.

MALBOSIA

So you believe people are a drain on the economy and infrastructure. More people. More payers in the future. I think borrowing/taxing is the problem when it should be printing/spending.

Again, NO, its not about increased population being a "drain on resources", you're simply trying to obfuscate my main point, by pandering to those with children. The "owners of capital" don't want to employ anyone in the future and are purposely destroying the markets previously held by small business owners.

What we have in 2014, is an overabundance of labor on the market and the ability of the 1% to use that fact to artificially drive down wages of the 99%. When the Black Death came about and wiped out "excess labor", the 1%'ers of the day somehow found "extra money" to pay said labor, for services rendered. The "owners of capital" have already decided that there are going to be LESS jobs available in the NEAR future due to increased automation and modern corporate labor cost-cutting measures. Where do newborn children fit into that plan?

Its simple, newborn babies, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants destroy the wage negotiating power of the 99% and the 1% know this. People making children whom WILL be jobless and skill-less labor in the future should be disincentivized from doing so. One day in the future your grown kids will be both skill-less and jobless, with no hope of gainful employment. Only when that moment arrives WILL you remember what was written on here!

I guess you missed the part where I said adopting one of the tens of millions of unwanted children that are already here, is FAR more honorable than simply making a new one "exclusively" with your DNA.

reply to post by boohoo


So we should just die as a species? In order to increase our value? Look. If you don't want kids, fine. Nobody is forcing you to and you will still have more money to spend than parents even if your taxes were higher. One day yiu will realize that worrying about the future is not what you base the decision to have children on. It is just a different path to the same end. You sound like a VERY greedy person with no desire to have a better system. You would rather the system was tweaked to make YOUR life better and who cares about the future because you have nothing invested in it anyway.

Ill keep fighting. You can lie down and die. Makes no difference to me.

Oh great idea...Wanna see how fast corporations start having kids

MALBOSIA
reply to post by boohoo

 

So we should just die as a species? In order to increase our value? Look. If you don't want kids, fine. Nobody is forcing you to and you will still have more money to spend than parents even if your taxes were higher. One day yiu will realize that worrying about the future is not what you base the decision to have children on. It is just a different path to the same end. You sound like a VERY greedy person with no desire to have a better system. You would rather the system was tweaked to make YOUR life better and who cares about the future because you have nothing invested in it anyway.

Ill keep fighting. You can lie down and die. Makes no difference to me.

You just don't get get it do you. The "owners of capital" OWN you and the only times in history when the "owner of capital" had "less say" was when the population of available labor was significantly smaller. The bigger the pool of labor, the more control they have over all of us. The 1% are playing a game called, "pit the desperate against each other". Every newborn baby the 99% creates, the easier it is "owners of capital" to play the game. They have you hook, line & sinker and sadly you don't even know it!

boohoo

MALBOSIA
reply to post by boohoo

 

So we should just die as a species? In order to increase our value? Look. If you don't want kids, fine. Nobody is forcing you to and you will still have more money to spend than parents even if your taxes were higher. One day yiu will realize that worrying about the future is not what you base the decision to have children on. It is just a different path to the same end. You sound like a VERY greedy person with no desire to have a better system. You would rather the system was tweaked to make YOUR life better and who cares about the future because you have nothing invested in it anyway.

Ill keep fighting. You can lie down and die. Makes no difference to me.

You just don't get get it do you. The "owners of capital" OWN you and the only times in history when the "owner of capital" had "less say" was when the population of available labor was significantly smaller. The bigger the pool of labor, the more control they have over all of us. The 1% are playing a game called, "pit the desperate against each other". Every newborn baby the 99% creates, the easier it is "owners of capital" to play the game. They have you hook, line & sinker and sadly you don't even know it!

I will agree with no more immigrants and no more free trade. But no more kids? Nope. Never. Your commiting suicide AND " I am a human being God damn it! My LIFE has value!" Always wanted to say that. Thank you

MALBOSIA
I will agree with no more immigrants and no more free trade. But no more kids? Nope. Never. Your commiting suicide AND " I am a human being God damn it! My LIFE has value!" Always wanted to say that. Thank you

Suicide? How, when I said, MANY TIMES, that ADOPTION was a solution. I guess I need to be more clear, Americans don't need to make any more "newborn biological DNA babies" going forward because the WORLD is filled with unwanted EXISTING newborn babies. Your life certainly has value, but the world most certainly doesn't need any "newborn biological DNA babies" specifically produced by you, to survive as species.

I'll say it again, when there are no more legal or illegal immigrants and no more "newborn biological DNA babies", Americans would see both increased wages and a reduction in prices for vital goods & services, due to decreased demand (assuming the supply and demand principle is actually true withing the USA economy).

MALBOSIA
One day yiu will realize that worrying about the future is not what you base the decision to have children on. It is just a different path to the same end. You sound like a VERY greedy person with no desire to have a better system. You would rather the system was tweaked to make YOUR life better and who cares about the future because you have nothing invested in it anyway.

On a side note there were plenty of Sudanese refugees who thought the same thing until their once stable country turned to crap and their children died walking to refugee camps. Don't think for a minute America is immune to such. Which child will you let die if and when you have to choose? There are plenty of formally middle class Sudanese who will tell you different, regarding the "benefits of having children" in a country with a not so stable future.

boohoo

MALBOSIA
I will agree with no more immigrants and no more free trade. But no more kids? Nope. Never. Your commiting suicide AND " I am a human being God damn it! My LIFE has value!" Always wanted to say that. Thank you

Suicide? How, when I said, MANY TIMES, that ADOPTION was a solution. I guess I need to be more clear, Americans don't need to make any more "newborn biological DNA babies" going forward because the WORLD is filled with unwanted EXISTING newborn babies. Your life certainly has value, but the world most certainly doesn't need any "newborn biological DNA babies" specifically produced by you, to survive as species.

I'll say it again, when there are no more legal or illegal immigrants and no more "newborn biological DNA babies", Americans would see both increased wages and a reduction in prices for vital goods & services, due to decreased demand (assuming the supply and demand principle is actually true withing the USA economy).

edit on 8-4-2014 by boohoo because: (no reason given)

Slow your role cowboy. Your talking about micromanaging the population. I'm not hearing that. I just want a tax break on child care. Don't go passing babies around trying to balance your books. That is crazy. Social problems are just that, social problems. You don't fill a void with problems or you start relying on problems. Look at police writing tickets to make quotas...

I get your whole supply and demand point, but you don't regulate biology to fix economic issues. The economy just needs a few honest bills that get easy votes to fix. Stop blaming humans, man. Your unbalanced.

Strewth
Forget kids or no kids - more propaganda to separate us.

Oil and Gas conglometates should pay the highest taxes, amongst others.

They are out of fracking control.

Pffft

edit on 8/4/14 by Strewth because: (no reason given)

You said it, brother

reply to post by watchitburn


Heated as well, here!

OP, I hope this is never, ever legislated...

Because some of us cannot help that we don't have children (despite our desires, and even perhaps merits)...

Singles & couples WITH children already get deductions from their children...I have plenty of relatives & friends to know... just sent in the big fat check today... so maybe I'm a bit moody for the time-being so maybe wrong place, wrong time...

Now, when they revise laws to provide deductions & health care plans for my many furry & finny dependents through employers, then maybe I shall bend a bit...?

Otherwise, no, just hecka no!

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I get your whole supply and demand point, but you don't regulate biology to fix economic issues. The economy just needs a few honest bills that get easy votes to fix. Stop blaming humans, man. Your unbalanced.

So "honest bills" are not written by Humans? Economics are a cultural SIDE EFFECT of Biology. Iif we can't blame humans than whom should we blame instead?

Why should I pay more money in taxes just so you can pay less money in taxes, just because you were able to procreate?

I can't even have children, owing to testicular cancer when I was in my 20's. You should consider the fact that you can, to be a blessing, and pay your taxes like everyone else, not whine about them.