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pookle
I honestly do wish America would have a total ban on weapons, then the rest of the world would be safer.
Daedalus
pookle
I honestly do wish America would have a total ban on weapons, then the rest of the world would be safer.
and no sooner than i mention idiotic "ban guns because guns" arguments, do i see one...
Daedalus
i'm not some kind of pro-gun rhetoric robot..i'm just so tired of hearing all the same idiotic "ban guns because guns" arguments....it's ignorance at it's finest..
pookle
Daedalus
pookle
I honestly do wish America would have a total ban on weapons, then the rest of the world would be safer.
and no sooner than i mention idiotic "ban guns because guns" arguments, do i see one...
Well, to be honest I stopped caring about America and Americans the day they stopped caring about me.
Daedalus
pookle
Daedalus
pookle
I honestly do wish America would have a total ban on weapons, then the rest of the world would be safer.
and no sooner than i mention idiotic "ban guns because guns" arguments, do i see one...
Well, to be honest I stopped caring about America and Americans the day they stopped caring about me.
then why are you here(in this thread)?
Gryphon66
Awww, dang it, now I've actually got to start listening to what you're saying.
I actually really enjoyed reading your response. You were measured and reasonable, perhaps moreso to me than I was to you.
Extremism and absolutism is the problem we face in the US. All or nothing.
pookle
Poking my nose into other peoples business, same thing America does to ours.
Gryphon66
reply to post by NavyDoc
I stated that the 2nd was about killing. Don't be specious, or pedantic for that matter to suggest that I don't understand that the 18th century comprehended life and death; you're a better thinker and debater than that. And not once have I said anything about "baby shredding assault bullets" so you're merely spewing rightist/rabid gun-nut propaganda if you assign that to me again.
I believe in your right to own as many weapons as you want. I don't think it's an unconstitutional onus upon you to register their purchase or to undergo a background check. I don't want to "grab" the guns you have or anyone elses.
I'm neither a "progressive" nor a pure "liberal" so stop the silly pigeonholing.
Whatever the specifics of the mechanics (and I will defer to your obviously greater knowledge and understanding of ballistics and firearms mechanics than mine) ... I want you to say to me that there is no appreciable difference in the level of lethality between a Brown Bess musket and an AK-47 with multiple clips or between a flintlock pistol and a 9MM Glock with multiple clips.
And if you can't, I want you to acknowledge that these weapons in the hands of anyone present an exponentially greater danger to the public-at-large than any small arms that the Founders could have imagined at the time.
And then, all I'm asking is if you think that these men *might* have been in favor of additional laws, regulations and rules for the purchase and carry of these weapons, given the infinitely greater lethality difference from anything they knew (short of grape shot or chain shot in cannon).
And ... really, do you think there are only two kinds of people, only two possible positions on the issues? Because I don't agree with a radical interpretation of the 2nd amendment I'm "anti-gun" ... see that's what REALLY doesn't work for me. Because then you get to just paste in a whole sermon of non-applicable rhetoric. On the other hand, I'm certainly not in "the 2nd amendment says I can do whatever I want with my guns" crowd ... but there's not just two groups "us and them" except in the minds of the overly paranoid, and Doc, even though we've butted heads regularly I don't think you're paranoid.
Am I wrong?
You're needlessly reducing the question of general welfare versus civil rights to vague and mostly empty rhetoric. You know as well as I do that the question of your rights versus my rights or your welfare versus my rights or the welfare of the State or the People of the State versus my rights or the rights of the State versus the rights of another State ... are intricate and complicated matters and oversimplifying them insults both our intellects.
You wouldn't get a moment's argument from me about the toxicity of the Patriot Act aside from noting that was a neocon's dream.
What do you want to use a machine gun for? What possible need do you have for it? How does whatever that possible need or want that you might have for a machine gun outweigh what "bad people" can do when machine guns come into their hands?
I'm not worried about people like you Doc. You have have tactical nukes for all I care, in fact, truth to tell, I'm glad guys like you are armed.
I'm worried about the quiet librarian across the street that taxidermies puppies and kittens and has started watching the playground ...
edit on 15Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:46:22 -050014p032014466 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)
Or fire at body rending velocities with bullet technologies that shred flesh and bone? Oh no, that makes no difference at all does it?
Daedalus
i actually disagree with your entire post, but these points below really irked me...so much so, that i felt the need to speak up....it's not my place to answer for the doc..but as i said, these points bothered me so much, i had to say something..
sorry, doc...
Gryphon66
If the machine gun does no harm in your safe, then you don't mind authorities knowing that it's there, right?
i love this argument "if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide"..it is so asinine....
what about "it's none of your buisness"?
it's not the role of the federal government to see everything, know everything, and punish everything....that's the role of a dictatorship, or some kind of imperialist, fascist, authoritarian, or totalitarian regime....
unless i'm doing something wrong, it's none of anyone's business what i have in my safe...4th amendment's a bitch, ain't it?
The machine gun may be safe in your safe but what happens when it isn't? What happens when your neighbor isn't as careful with his machine gun and leaves it out on the porch, and some neighborhood kids pick it up and go play "Halo For Real" down at the Church Day Care? Oh, what fun that is, huh? Remember, kids kill kids, not machine guns.
hyperbole. yeah, sure, let's start taking things away from people, because of what they, or someone else MIGHT do....let's start charging people with crimes they haven't committed, or are unlikely to ever commit....sure, makes perfect sense....how much more liberty would you have people sacrifice, to chase the mirage of total safety?
No, I can't predict the future, and neither can you. But fewer machine guns mean fewer chances that machine guns will be misused.
you obviously have no idea how many actual "machine guns" are in private hands in america, or how difficult it is to obtain one.....but hey, let's just make up some more misinformed assertions, because that's always a winning strategy, AMIRITE?
Aside from that, nothing in the Constitution says you can have a machine gun. Sorry, it just doesn't.
true...but it also doesn't say we CAN'T have one...now, i know, you're one of those people who thinks the founders were simpletons, who didn't think technology would advance past the levels it was at when the constitution was written...
"arms" is non-specific...it doesn't mean "musket"...it means "arms", meaning whatever is in common use. muskets were the standard military arms for that period, these days, it's rifles based on the AR-15 platform....facts is facts, man...
just because you're scared of them, and have no use for them, doesn't mean nobody else should have them, or that nobody else has a use for them.....if you don't have a need, or a desire to own a gun, then don't own one...but don't presume to tell other people what they do or don't need, based on your own personal hangups....that's a much deeper psychosis, completely unconnected to guns...
ZeroFurrbone
I hope everyone that has gun go to jail! Criminals included. The more guns people have , the more crime there is. Isnt that why NY has high crime rate?
For everyone else that aprove guns , I hope everyone have Bazookas in their houses and uses them. Laws are made by people that want the laws to help them , not the people. Guns shouldnt exist in the first place. Less weapons , less death. No Weapons No War.
Gryphon66
reply to post by NavyDoc
You're simply misstating what I'm saying and misrepresenting what I'm sure you know is true.
A musket ball fired by a musket loader does damage to the human body, given. I know that. The Founders knew that, and I know they knew it. That's not only obvious, I never implied otherwise, IN FACT, I clearly stated the opposite.
A musket ball does not do the same kind of damage as a modern bullet fired from any kind of modern weapon, much less, hollow-point bullets, heavy grain bullets, et. al. You know that, I know that, so stop pretending its the same thing. It's like saying a torch and a flame-thrower are the same, or a sword and a chain-saw.
Leftist-schmeftist. What talking points are you using? NRA-anarcho-fascist-survivalist-nutjob? You haven't come up with one original contribution in the entire conversation. You've got two songs 1) I can have any gun I want and you can't stop me, nyah-nyah and 2) You're a socialist-leftist-communist-pinko-gun-grabber. It doesn't matter what anyone says, or what reasonable counterpoints they raise, you can only respond on two channels because that's all you've got. Your vocabulary and sentence structure is a bit more complex than the average Alex Jones/Glenn Beck parrot but you still haven't moved any further in your thinking.
The common American citizens owned cannon? LOL. Yeah, you're a real historian, Doc.
How far do your rights extend? Exactly as far as they start harming the rest of us, exactly that far, and no fricking further.
A certain ilk wants to expand its own selfish and short-sighted aggrandized pettiness to the rest of us, the American people, who by the by are overwhelmingly in every poll content to have the current gun control laws enforced. Honestly, these neo-con, faux-patriots defile the word liberty when it is co-opted to justify small-minded needs to have just exactly the kinds of toys to play with and fantasize about overthrowing governments with, regardless of the fact of what those toys can do in the hands of the criminal, the insane and other truly bad people for whom taking action is not just words on an internet message board.
What a waste of time this is.
Gryphon66
What was it you said earlier? "Quacks like a duck?" You plastered me with all the "leftist, anti-gun" BS because I have the temerity to disagree with you for more than a couple of rounds. You get it back, and boy, that bitter pill causes quite the reaction, don't it Doc?
Physician, heal thyself.
But, peace. Peace. We can trade counter insults all day long. I don't think I've ever directly insulted your intellect, as you've done now on several occasions. I don't really care, as it's a cheap shot common to internet message boards, but you're not "playing the ball." I give a #### what your estimate of my abilities are. You're words on a screen to me; stray electrons.
Your "expertise" not withstanding, and my relative ignorance not excluded, it is ludicrous to compare the lethality of a musket and modern firearms. You can argue it, but you know it's not true, or if it is, it's only technically true; here's why.
One skilled musket-shooter, one musket, powder, 15 balls and ramrod vs. one skilled shooter, one 9 mm Glock with one 15 round clip. One minute. What's the kill rate on each?
That's my only point in regard to that line of argument. There is a monumental difference in the lethality of modern firearms versus that of the 18th century. I think, given that, those very intelligent men might have phrased the 2A differently.
I have no interest in the animosity our interaction is creating Doc, I really don't.
I don't care about your guns as I've said repeatedly. I'm not coming for them. Neither is anyone else. That's culturally-induced paranoia; as a medical man, I'd think you're familiar with the concept.
The government is not coming for your guns. Neither are the leftists, the peaceniks, the socialists, no one.
Limiting weapons imported into this country, requiring registration (like, you know, vehicles) requiring carry permits (like you know drivers licenses or voter ID cards), keeping them out of the hands of convicted criminals and the mentally ill, restricting the availability of certain ridiculously powered weapons ... DOES NOT restrict your rights to bear arms. Period. Scream about the meaning of "infringe" all day.
We have different opinions. Enjoy yours. I had thought we agreed to avoid interaction, since we can't seem to remain civil.
Good policy, that. Best.edit on 15Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:34:20 -050014p032014466 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)
pookle
I honestly do wish America would have a total ban on weapons, then the rest of the world would be safer.