Faith VS Science & Athiests

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posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

It says four corners.



After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Revelations 7:1




posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by 168617
 




Have you heard of North, East, South, West? Them imaginary points we use to tell direction?


Is that what the bible says?



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 11:55 AM
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TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

It says four corners.



After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Revelations 7:1


In another part of revelation it mentions 1260 days. But when you find out that 1 day is like 1 year then it could possibly be 1260 years. Not everything is meant to be taken literally. The book needs to be studied not just glossed over and then ignored.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by 168617
 




Have you heard of North, East, South, West? Them imaginary points we use to tell direction?


Is that what the bible says?


No, it doesn't directly say that, why?



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by 168617
 


What about these?

"Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land."

"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 


It would possibly mean the same as the first one you pointed out.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

It says four corners.



After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Revelations 7:1

For goodness sake, man, its a saying. ever heard "I'd be willing to go to the ends of the earth"? does that make that person an idiot for thinking the earth has an end? No,, because its a saying. And the corners of the earth are the points of the compass, genius.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by LucidWarrior
 





For goodness sake, man, its a saying. ever heard "I'd be willing to go to the ends of the earth"? does that make that person an idiot for thinking the earth has an end? No,, because its a saying. And the corners of the earth are the points of the compass, genius.


How is "the four corners of the earth" a saying if that was its first usage? It's a saying now, genius. Not then. The compass wasn't even around at those times, genius.
edit on 7-4-2014 by TheSubversiveOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Annunak1
 

The pseudo science industry today uses belief (unobserved theories) in place of knowledge.
I don't think science (as knowledge), not today's pseudo science of politically pushed science ideas & unobserved theories/beliefs/speculations to support TPTB, needs to be V.S faith in God.

Athiests have faith there is no god. {*Faith is confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, or view}.
Yes absolutely, much science theory is taught and believed by the student in total faith without observation.
Scientism seems like a religion today.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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this is funny

i have a question to ask here.

you really believe in god huh. i mean this dude "168682" (or whatever sorry i dunno ur username) its funny to read ur comments.hehe. ok sorry i got side tracked. my question is:
you know how big the universe is? before saying "yes" just think about the size. i mean seriously just sit and think about the size of the universe. its huge. go to google, and type largest stars in the universe. go to "youtube" and see the size of the largest star. it show very nicely. all comparison and all. then you'll see the size of the star how huge it is compared to earth. then ull realize how big the universe truly is.
ok once u understand how big the universe is, then its time to ask the second question. do still believe in the existence of god?
ill explain why i ask this as my second question. its actually quite a huge leap in logic to determine god doesn't exist just from knowing how big the universe is. let me explain.
god made the universe. god made earth. so why why why why did he make the universe so big? i mean just think. think for a while please before getting angry. please think with a calm mind. try to reason it out. theres no reason. just for one tiny earth, god dint have to make the universe so huge. i mean it is so huge we cant even begin to comprehend the size. anyone saying otherwise is just kidding themselves. so its like theres no reason for god to create such a huge thing. thus we can logically arrive at the conclusion that universe has no explanation to its existence. it just exists. kinda like god if u think. lol actually im in a hurry ill explain fully if u guys want...



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by PerfectAnomoly
 





The important difference being... We CAN SEE the EVIDENCE of evolution everywhere.... We do not see the evidence of a god.... or at least current knowledge allows us to now safely say that what we do see does not point towards the existence of a god...


God is self-evident.

I do not need any proof to understand that someone designed and built the apartment I'm sitting in right now. The fact that someone designed it is self-evident.

The universe exists. The very fact that I wake up, know myself, and see the world, is evidence enough that someone designed and built it. If there was no God of any sort, existence as we know couldn't exist.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 02:51 PM
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168617

TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

It says four corners.



After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Revelations 7:1


In another part of revelation it mentions 1260 days. But when you find out that 1 day is like 1 year then it could possibly be 1260 years. Not everything is meant to be taken literally. The book needs to be studied not just glossed over and then ignored.


Can you give me a good reason why the book needs to be studied AT ALL? Why is the text so vague that you need to read into it very throughly to understand the messages? Wouldn't it make sense that a divinely inspired book should be easily understood by EVERYONE who reads it so as to spread the message that much easier? It would also make it hard to corrupt the message when it is spelled out very clearly. I always chuckle inside when I hear the religious people talk like it is a matter of pride that the bible is hard to understand and very metaphorical to the point where you can't tell where the metaphors end and reality begins.

To me, writing a religious text like that seems like something an unscrupulous person would do to brainwash as many people as possible. What better why to control the masses than to give them a text that can be interpreted anyway the reader wishes so that everyone gets out their own personal view of things? It even provides a nice cop-out excuse when the claims in the book are challenged, "well that story is just a metaphor," or something like that.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Annunak1
 


Is this creator you believe in aware of itself?



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by transcension
 


Actually the size of the universe doesn't disprove god or even a god that dotes on a tiny little blue orb in the vastness of the universe. It certainly makes the latter one HIGHLY improbable, but the former could totally still be true if you consider that God is actually indifferent to Earth, but may happen to like us because He/She/It likes and values all life in the universe. I say this as an agnostic, but just wanted to point out that your argument is just as flawed as the person you responded to.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 





reply to post by 168617




'After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Revelations 7:1'


How does a circle have four corners? Or is the bible contradictory?



I'd say Earth is more spherical than circular, eh? In any case, this is another example simpleton logic. The four corner issue is irrelevant to the big picture. We could sit here and argue whether scripture meant to imply the world is flat or if was a figure of speech to say 'from the far reaches of the Earth in four different directions'. Does it really matter?

If we're reduced to silly arguments and debates then let's ask whether or not the bible suggests that the universe is expanding, and foot in mouth, whether scripture says Earth is circular. biblehub.com...

It doesn't matter so much.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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168617

TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

It says four corners.



After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Revelations 7:1


In another part of revelation it mentions 1260 days. But when you find out that 1 day is like 1 year then it could possibly be 1260 years. Not everything is meant to be taken literally. The book needs to be studied not just glossed over and then ignored.


So how do you discern what should be taken literally and what they really mean when they say something totally different.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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JohnFisher
reply to post by PerfectAnomoly
 





The important difference being... We CAN SEE the EVIDENCE of evolution everywhere.... We do not see the evidence of a god.... or at least current knowledge allows us to now safely say that what we do see does not point towards the existence of a god...


God is self-evident.

I do not need any proof to understand that someone designed and built the apartment I'm sitting in right now. The fact that someone designed it is self-evident.

The universe exists. The very fact that I wake up, know myself, and see the world, is evidence enough that someone designed and built it. If there was no God of any sort, existence as we know couldn't exist.


Another person using the watchmakers fallacy.
edit on 7-4-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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JohnFisher

God is self-evident.


Actually, God is not Self evident. Otherwise we'd all have that same opinion.


I do not need any proof to understand that someone designed and built the apartment I'm sitting in right now. The fact that someone designed it is self-evident.

The universe exists. The very fact that I wake up, know myself, and see the world, is evidence enough that someone designed and built it.


That is not compelling enough evidence for the claim that is being made. You claim a Divine All Powerful Being that created everything, watches everything, Is Timeless, Formless, etc. You're gonna need more than "You wake up, know yourself and see the world" as evidence to support that claim. Otherwise call it what it is which is Belief and/or Faith. That's almost as bad as "the tides go in, the tides go out, you can't explain it. -Bill O'reily"


If there was no God of any sort, existence as we know couldn't exist.


Again, that's simply your opinion which has no support at all other than "because you say so". For anyone other than you, that means nothing.

I think you'd be better off sticking with, "The universe exists" and just stopping right there.
edit on 7-4-2014 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by JohnFisher
 





I'd say Earth is more spherical than circular, eh? In any case, this is another example simpleton logic. The four corner issue is irrelevant to the big picture. We could sit here and argue whether scripture meant to imply the world is flat or if was a figure of speech to say 'from the far reaches of the Earth in four different directions'. Does it really matter?

If we're reduced to silly arguments and debates then let's ask whether or not the bible suggests that the universe is expanding, and foot in mouth, whether scripture says Earth is circular. biblehub.com...

It doesn't matter so much.


It does matter if this simpleton logic is taken as divine truth. I suppose we can pick and choose, as per protocol, which is metaphor and which is assertive and apply it how we see fit; but no sort of logic, whether bronze age or not, suggests that the Bible is both figurative and literal, unless, of course, it is a work of fiction.



posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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Annunak1
It doesn't matter if it happened or not because it is still relevant.

It's not relevant in the least. The "professor's" responses/comments to the "student's" challenges are flawed because there is no basis in real science.





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