evolution, where is the evidence???!!! I see none

The topic of this thread is "evolution, where is the evidence???!!! I see none" posted by Slicky1313. And my post about interbreeding is my way of saying that I don't believe in evolution either. It's not real and there is NO evidence of it. When in fact the evidence is leaning toward interbreeding.. especially since it is all around us in nature to this very day.

School. Learn. Educate yourself. It doen't hurt to try atleast, and who know's, you may learn something! Heh.

I don't see how evolution is completely obvious. Actually, I don't see how scientists say that a male of a breed of human.. let's say us.. will mate with a woman of the same breed of human, us, and one day give birth to a completely different breed of human being, not us.

Yea no kidding huh? I don't see why'd they say that either, and thankfully they don't.

I gotta see proof for this.. I'm sorry.. I hate asking for evidence or proof.. but this one is throwing me for a loop.. do you have a link?

I second that!

Ya.. this is called growing up.. not becoming a brand new species of human...

Here here!

Wierd though how someone can get part of it right, but have so many misconceptions about the rest of it. All I can really say is educate yourself more about evolution. It's not a one night stand nor a wham bam thank ya ma'am event. One species does not, has not, and unless we somehow figure out a way to make it happen, will never give birth to a totally new species through normal sexual reproduction.

Evolution is abit complex. We don't know exactly how it works in full, all we've got are bits and pieces to a very complex system with many variables of operation. It's not just genetics alone, there are many variables outside the biological body that can influence change's within it, which just makes it that much damn harder to pinpoint where we misplaced that dang evolution for religous people manual. Some people aren't happy until they have all the answer's at the snap of a finger. Damn wannabe know it alls. People, it's simple. Learning does not hurt. Atleast give it a try, just once. Maybe then we will see a small drop in such ignorant post's on a board that profess's deny ignorance.

Well,to be technical;both evolution and creationism are in fact just theories.Neither have been definitively proven,and both have thier fair share of holes.So to get back on the topic,there is no proof to support evolution.

Now,i may be 100% wrong on this but,when one species evolves from another doesnt' the previous species die out.....disappear? So if we evolved from apes,then why are apes still here?

Creation isn't a theory. A Theory is like Gravity, you know it happens, you can show it, but you can't tell what it is. Is Gravity a force, a wave, something else?

Creation is "I said it so I'm right."

Originally posted by Gigram
Evolution just happened! Bird FLu, a new disease, evolved from a different disease. Or did God create that to with Adam and Eve but kept it a secret until now?

I do not know anything about the bird flu that I have been reading about on different news sites.. but isn't it a virus type flu? Maybe not.

Adam and Eve?

God created everything.. this includes the universe as far as I am concerned. Adam and Eve was just the beginning of the different breeds of humanity.. well that is just my opinion.. I don't know if this is true and until I see evidence that shows a different answer then I will hold that opinion. And please do not start posting things here trying to change my mind on this.. not unless you have proof of what you are saying that cannot be interpreted in any other way.

Originally posted by Prot0n

Evolution is abit complex. We don't know exactly how it works in full, all we've got are bits and pieces to a very complex system with many variables of operation. It's not just genetics alone, there are many variables outside the biological body that can influence change's within it, which just makes it that much damn harder to pinpoint where we misplaced that dang evolution for religous people manual. Some people aren't happy until they have all the answer's at the snap of a finger. Damn wannabe know it alls. People, it's simple. Learning does not hurt. Atleast give it a try, just once. Maybe then we will see a small drop in such ignorant post's on a board that profess's deny ignorance.

No... You did NOT just call me ignorant!! For having my own opinion?? Really?? That just shows how smart you are..

And before you called me ignorant you admit that no one knows how evolution works in full.. well duh.. really???? Wouldn't that make them ignorant.

My opinion which is interbreeding, my reasoning is how the fossil record shows the many different species of humans through out human history. It is the only theory that works in full, doesn't it? Tell me please if you see beyond a shadow of a doubt why this has holes in it.. please state your opinion with out the name calling. And if you have a link to prove your theories then please post a link to it.. oh ya.. I'm sorry.. no one knows how evolution works in full... I guess that would be hard to post a link to evidence of evolution huh?

Ok, yes that last sentence was snotty.. sorry... I couldn't help myself

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
Well,to be technical;both evolution and creationism are in fact just theories.Neither have been definitively proven,and both have thier fair share of holes.So to get back on the topic,there is no proof to support evolution.

Now,i may be 100% wrong on this but,when one species evolves from another doesnt' the previous species die out.....disappear? So if we evolved from apes,then why are apes still here?

Finially.. a voice of reason. You are exactly right on this spanish... how can we be walking on this planet with an ape species that still exists.

I would really like to hear how interbreeding has holes in it.. can you please explain that? Thanks.

[edit on 6/23/2006 by Stari]

I cant, believe i never saw this thread before..

Evolution is EVERYWHERE to be seen..

Why are Africans black and have wider nostrils and bigger lips and less fat naturally?? because they evolved to survive in high temperatures.

Why are American Indians described as red?You try sitting out in the sun all day and you,ll find you EVOLVE into a nice red colour too.btw I,m talking about cowboy and Indian days here..

Why do astronauts experience bone density reductions and heart pressure changes AS SOON AS A FEW HOURS!!WOW..Its all evolution and adaptation to the conditions the body is exposed to.

Why do you think they tell you NOT to drink the local water in some countries..Because your body has evolved to the almost sterile/chemical ridden water supply you are fed so your body cannot cope with the minerals/NATURAL BACTERIA etc in other country,s water

See how much you evolve sitting in front of the TV all day with no exercise..Yep.. Thats evolving too.Don,t forget that if your parents are obese ,chances are you will be born with the same tendency to become likewise.. isn,t that evolution??

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Why are Africans black and have wider nostrils and bigger lips and less fat naturally?? because they evolved to survive in high temperatures.

That is only a theory.. there has been no proof to back that up that I am aware of. Do you have a link to share that proves this theory?

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Why are American Indians described as red?You try sitting out in the sun all day and you,ll find you EVOLVE into a nice red colour too.btw I,m talking about cowboy and Indian days here..

sitting out in the sun and getting sun burn is not evolution.. it is sitting in the sun too long and getting burned for it.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Why do astronauts experience bone density reductions and heart pressure changes AS SOON AS A FEW HOURS!!WOW..Its all evolution and adaptation to the conditions the body is exposed to.

Really? I have never heard of the cause of what happens to astronauts bones while space traveling is a persons body evolving into a new species.. Can you please post a link to this info for me to read?

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Why do you think they tell you NOT to drink the local water in some countries..Because your body has evolved to the almost sterile/chemical ridden water supply you are fed so your body cannot cope with the minerals/NATURAL BACTERIA etc in other country,s water

Also diarrhea

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Don,t forget that if your parents are obese ,chances are you will be born with the same tendency to become likewise.. isn,t that evolution??

No it isn't.. evolution is evolving into a totally different species over a very very large period of time. I'm talking millions if not trillions of years.. and yes I do not believe the time frame givin for this planet, solar system or universe. But this last statement of yours does help my point.

If your parents both have heart disease when they get older then the chances of you developing this same disease is very possible. As a human being we do not stray from our origins. Unless we interbreed.

I'm religious person to a certain extent,i.e i have to thouroughly question a concept before committing to it. I've found that when you mix common religious beliefs/ideas and science that things seem to fall together.

Anyway,sorry that's for another topic/time. To me at least it just seems like evolution is goin along strong untill we get here. There's that infamous gap. It's almost like.....what happened there? After the gap,modern humans emerge. I have my own theory on this but it looks like i'll just have to make a new thread on it.Sorry if this post doesnt make much sense,im pretty tired atm.

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
To me at least it just seems like evolution is goin along strong untill we get here. There's that infamous gap. It's almost like.....what happened there? After the gap,modern humans emerge. I have my own theory on this but it looks like i'll just have to make a new thread on it.Sorry if this post doesnt make much sense,im pretty tired atm.

This makes perfect sense if you are looking at the problem through the thinking of interbreeding.

I believe that over time the Earth does go through changes.. this has been scientifically proven. When the Earth goes through these changes then air and temps changes. Making the population numbers drop.. and perhaps breeds of humans goes extinct. This would slow down the process of different species of humans interbreeding.. thus the gap in the so called evolutionary chain.

Yes this is only my opinion. Can anyone find a hole in it?

I cant find any gaps. This sounds like the population bottleneck that some
scientists are bringing into the light. The bottleneck is a period in our history when our mitochondrial dna was very diverse. Mitochondria is inherited from the mother only. Using this scientists were able to trace the mtdna all the way back to 1 woman. It seems that some sort of catastropic natural disaster happend and the entire pop. was reduced to a few thousand. This would explain the previous genetic diversity. Modern humans dna is relatively similar in the sense of lack of genetic diversity. I got this info from a national geographic channel special.It aired about a year ago. I'll try to find it/info on the web and post back.

Found some info here it is: en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 23-6-2006 by spanishcaravan]

Found more info on the bottleneck theory also

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm sure this has been said somewhere in this thread before, but I think people are confusing theories with hypotheses.

Hypothesis: A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation. - Dictionary.com

Theory: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. - Dictionary.com

Just to clarify things a little: before any idea becomes a theory, it is, at first, a hypothesis. Darwin's "Theory of Evolution" was at one time just a hypothesis - an observation/idea/statement that something is true (a hypothesis is just a preliminary for testing and observations - it could turn out to not be true). But as many, many tests and observations were performed over time, those tests and observations turned into facts . . . evolution then, and only then, became a theory (it was not a quick process mind you and the theory is still being worked on to this day - just like most theories). Theories are based on facts that have been tested time and time again to be true.

Theories must not be confused with laws - there are very few laws. Take for instance Newton's First Law of Motion: "a body remains at rest or in motion with a constant velocity unless acted upon by an external force." That was at one time just a hypothesis, then over time it became a theory, and then finally it became a law. But it only became a law after it was proveable beyond a doubt to be true. You see, evolution can not become a law until all of the pieces of the evolutionary puzzle are put together. The same goes for gravity and numerous other things. As far as gravity goes, if one doesn't believe in the "theory of gravity" (yes, gravity is a theory) why not go jump off a tall building and tell yourself that "a theory is not a fact" - if you survive, then maybe you'll prove the theory wrong (but I must stress the fact that there is a high chance you won't survive, so please, don't go test to see whether the theory has the facts to back it up). No, theories are not facts, but I must emphasize this once again: they are based on facts.

Also, I see no reason why evolution and God cannot coexist. If we were not given the ability to adapt to our environment (evolve), we would've been dead so very long ago. Think of all the viruses and bacteria that our bodies have developed defenses against. Look no further than the Black Plague. The Black Plague killed so many indidviduals in Europe that the survivors developed strong defenses against it. To this day, Europeans have higher defenses for the Plague than the majority of individuals elsewhere in the world. These defenses are passed down from generation to generation - that is evolution in action. Evolution does not always mean external changes - it usually starts from within. Again, if God didn't give us the ability to evolve, there would probably not be so many humans living today, if any.

Whether we evolved from primates or not, seriously, who cares? We were given the wonderful gift of a brain (full of curiosities and free flowing thoughts) - God means for us to use it, otherwise, why give it? In my eyes, God's intention may just be that he (I identify God as a "he" for the simple idea that some individiduals would prefer that he be "he" instead of "it") wants us to figure out his whole wonderous creation. I know that if I were of the same caliber, I wouldn't want to hold my creations back - let them uncover the truth of their existence. Science and religion are one and the same: the pursuit of truth (yes, that is from Carl Sagan's novel "Contact," but it rings true). Science is the truth of the physical and religion is the truth of the spiritual. Think about it.

[edit on 6-24-2006 by EmbryonicEssence]

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
Now,i may be 100% wrong on this but,when one species evolves from another doesnt' the previous species die out.....disappear? So if we evolved from apes,then why are apes still here?

well we start with a population of a primitive ape. This ape population spreads over an wide area, for example over separate rivers/mountains/continents. One population (or more than one) become isolated. That is the first step.

Evolution can be defined as simple genetics over time. With each generation, we have mutations and differences to the previous generation. For example, the races we see in humans are a consequence of this. Although, we are the same species, it's just that each population became adapted to their environment.

So, the primitive ape populations became isolated, genetically and geographically, over time their genetics changed to the extent that the populations became very genitically different. The original population will not be the same as the isolated populations, they may even get to the point that they may no longer be able to reproduce with each other. Now we have a new species, lets have two types of ape. Add another few million years and the two species will be very different from the original population (as both will be evolving), maybe as different as a chimpanzee and humans. We approximate the split with other apes to have been in the order of millions of years (around 6million I think). For example, the bonobo and common chimps are different species and are separated by the congo river, they differ physically and behaviourally (separated a few hundred thousand years after the homo divergence). They are our closest relatives.

I wonder if we had never developed the technology we have whether the races we see in humans with another million years may have became different species?

That is one mechanism for speciation, there are others such as sympatric speciation (without geographical isolation) that could have resulted in the divergence.

I'm sure it's been posted already in this thread but here is 29+ evidences for common descent and ToE.

A comparison between strict YEC creationism and ToE on scientific terms is quite silly - one has a multitude of supporting evidence, the other only has myth-related texts and a ton of falsifying evidence.

Here's a good lecture by Prof. Steve Jones on evolution. Well worth the time.

But remember ToE does not rule out your omnipotent being of choice, just the way he did things.

[edit on 24-6-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
To this day, Europeans have higher defenses for the Plague than the majority of individuals elsewhere in the world. These defenses are passed down from generation to generation - that is evolution in action. Evolution does not always mean external changes - it usually starts from within. Again, if God didn't give us the ability to evolve, there would probably not be so many humans living today, if any.

Everything you said in your post was very interesting.. but I have to point out a couple of things. First, the defenses that are passed down from generation to generation is not necessarily evolution, what I mean is it is not changing the species of human that we are, it is merely helping the species of human that we are become stronger and able to with stand the forces of this planet from making us extinct like we have seen so many times over in nature.

Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
Whether we evolved from primates or not, seriously, who cares?

Some of us do, I guess that is why we are here posting.

Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
In my eyes, God's intention may just be that he (I identify God as a "he" for the simple idea that some individiduals would prefer that he be "he" instead of "it")

This is not a discussion about God, but I must admit that when I think of God I do not think of God as being a man.

And since we are quoting dictionary.com:

Evolution Definition from www.dictionary.com...

1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
2.
a. The process of developing.
b. Gradual development.

Interbreeding Definition from www.dictionary.com...

1. To breed with another kind or species; hybridize.
2. To breed within a narrow range or with closely related types or individuals; inbreed.

Hybridize Definition from www.dictionary.com...

1. To produce or cause to produce hybrids; crossbreed.
2. To form base pairs between complementary regions of (two strands of DNA that were not originally paired).

Originally posted by melatonin
For example, the bonobo and common chimps are different species and are separated by the congo river, they differ physically and behaviourally (separated a few hundred thousand years after the homo divergence). They are our closest relatives.

Are you saying that we evolved from the common chimp? Chimps still walk this Earth and there fore we did not evolve from them... they would no longer be here if we did. Yes that is my opinion.. is there any proof that they could still be walking this Earth and we evolved from them?

Thanks for the links.. that is alot of reading that I am going to have to do after I hit a few stores today.. real life is taking over internet life again..

Originally posted by Stari

Originally posted by melatonin
For example, the bonobo and common chimps are different species and are separated by the congo river, they differ physically and behaviourally (separated a few hundred thousand years after the homo divergence). They are our closest relatives.

Are you saying that we evolved from the common chimp? Chimps still walk this Earth and there fore we did not evolve from them... they would no longer be here if we did. Yes that is my opinion.. is there any proof that they could still be walking this Earth and we evolved from them?

Thanks for the links.. that is alot of reading that I am going to have to do after I hit a few stores today.. real life is taking over internet life again..

nope, chimps and homo species diverged from the same primitive ape ancestor about 6 million years ago. The homo line lead to homo sapien. Another line resulted in the 2 types of chimp alive today.

[edit on 24-6-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
nope, chimps and homo species diverged from the same primitive ape ancestor about 6 million years ago. The homo line lead to homo sapien. Another line resulted in the 2 types of chimp alive today

So it is scientifically proven that only one breed of chimp out of two different breeds was able to evolve? Isn't evolution supposed to be able to happen with all species?

If so then why did only one breed of chimp live on to today with out ever evolving into something better?

I must say,this is one of the few posts of this nature that hasnt turned into a flame war. It's nice to see an actual discussion for a change instead of the usual im right you're wrong.

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
I must say,this is one of the few posts of this nature that hasnt turned into a flame war. It's nice to see an actual discussion for a change instead of the usual im right you're wrong.

I totally agree with you on that.. I am really enjoying myself with this thread.. and learning. That is what life is about