Scientific Knowledge contradicts nature.

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posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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Just food for thought

My argument is this:

-Scientific knowledge is the foundation of Technology.
-Technology is in contradiction to nature.
-Therefor, scientific knowledge is in contradiction to nature.


Technology – The application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes, and all objects of human engineering.

Nature – Anything that isn't technology.


 


Scientific knowledge is the foundation of Technology.

Technology is:


the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes, esp. in industry: advances in computer technology | recycling technologies.
• machinery and equipment developed from the application of scientific knowledge.
• the branch of knowledge dealing with engineering or applied sciences.


  • Using scientific models and laws as a foundations, engineers develop, design, and construct inventions. As a result, we have technology.

    Technology is in contradiction to nature:

  • But technology doesn't look, act, feel or sound like nature.

  • If one was to walk on a beach and find a watch in the sand, it can be inferred without a doubt that the specimen is an example of technology, and not nature. This contrast between the artificiality of technology, its overly geometric and uniform shape and texture, and the rest of objects on the beach is immediately apparent. There is a certain contradiction or irony in its presence. It doesn’t belong. Why?

  • There are no straight lines, triangles, perfect circles, or numbers in nature, yet there are plenty in the human mind, and thus in our scientific models. Nature’s form and properties are only abstractly depicted in this manner, as perhaps too much of it is rounded off for the sake of objectivity, or intelligibility, and countless variables are virtually excluded in their conception, deemed as mere noise. Technological design, if it relies on these purely mathematical and scientific conditions, is therefor limited to these artificial forms in order to for it to have any shape. As a result, technology is composed of geometrical forms made of various synthetic materials. Technology contradicts nature in its very form and properties. Hence, technology stands out as distinct from nature.

  • Technology replaces nature insofar as nature is required to construct it and maintain its activity.


  • Scientific knowledge is the foundation of technology, yet engineers are unable to design, nor construct, any sort of natural thing using natural materials, and natural forms—for instance a tree, or a conscious being—and instead must rely on abstract forms of geometry, number, and synthetic materials in order to design and create technology. All technology is, in that sense, artificial and in contradiction to nature.

  • In controlled experiment, the conditions are of human choice and not a natural one, and are such that no other environment like it exists in nature, and the results are therefor artificial. There is never a set of “given certain conditions” in nature, being that the conditions are never certain, and an artificial result always manifests from the controlled experiment.

    Questions

    If we are unable to construct a proper representation of a natural thing, such as a tree, utilizing scientific principles and models, a number of questions arise:

    If what results from scientific models and principles and laws of nature is technology, why is it that technology and nature are in such contradiction?

    Is the artificiality of technology, evidence that our scientific foundational models are not quite an accurate description of nature?

    Is the artificiality of technology, evidence that applied mathematical and geometric thinking cannot quite represent nature, because there is no such mathematics or geometry outside of the human mind to which it could be applied?




  • posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:25 PM
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    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     

    I think both, they contradict and compliment one another. So many tech things were designed mimicking nature.



    There are no straight lines, triangles, perfect circles, or numbers in nature - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

    I too used to think that…but
    There are stright lines and angles in nature.



    But technology doesn't look, act, feel or sound like nature.
    - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

    Some links to check out:
    cleantechnica.com...
    www.sciencedaily.com...
    esciencenews.com...

    Now at the same time, much tech does contradict nature and as far as building a tree,so to say, we will have to learn to assemble atoms and synthesize replicant material. We can now assemble atoms so building a synthetic tree may be around the corner.
    I think against and with nature are 2 sides of the same coin and both have their place independently and dependently. The terms natural and technological can be interchangeable at times too

    Ultimately I think mimicking nature will bring more tech design in the future and why not, mother nature seems to be quite the engineer. At the same time I do hope tech doesn't somehow draw us further from nature, and usher in a sterilized robotic world with little regard for nature.

    ETA: I wanted to add a thought I have had in the past regarding this. Has technology redirected our path way from our own natural evolution into more biological tech that awaits us? Has our natural evolution been hijacked by modern tech? Are we supposed to develop biological, genetic and quantum science with less tech over time? I just wonder if alien reverse engineered tech has made it's way into our evolution and is that better or worse? Perhaps they will merge and simply accelerate the process of biotech merging? Technological dances are inevitable, but I hope nature will always remain an inspiration and not become a victim.
    edit on 6-4-2014 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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    Evolution is constantly altering species for efficiency and getting an edge up on nature.

    technology does the same. I therefore offer up the hypothesis that technology is actually a natural progression of evolution.

    aka, your ipad is as natural as fingers.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:43 PM
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    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     


    I actually understood all of that and agree with most of it except the first part where you stated that tech is evil. I think it is more a question of application. We are not good stewards of our world, that is evident. However, by definition, i would agree that tech could be seen as being in opposition to nature. Especially if you think in terms of harvesting natural rescources or disposal of hazardous materials.

    In my opinion, global warming or not, we should take better care of our planet and always be looking for ways to improve.




    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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    TheSubversiveOne
    Just food for thought

    My argument is this:

    -Scientific knowledge is the foundation of Technology.
    -Technology is in contradiction to nature.
    -Therefor, scientific knowledge is in contradiction to nature.





    -A rock cannot fly
    -You cannot fly
    -Therefore, you are a rock



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:50 PM
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    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     


    Is fire, technology or nature? Technology and nature are one and the same



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     


    Man is part of nature. Man creates technology with his knowledge of science. Therefore, scientific technology is an extention of nature.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 07:30 PM
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    The technology that man creates is nothing compared to what nature has created. Man can steer or destroy nature but he cannot create life out of nothing. Don't even think mankind has anything over on nature. Everything we try to do turns out bad because we do not do proper evaluation of the consequences of our actions.

    Our bodies are technology that is a million times what man can create.
    edit on 6-4-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 07:35 PM
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    DupontDeux

    TheSubversiveOne
    Just food for thought

    My argument is this:

    -Scientific knowledge is the foundation of Technology.
    -Technology is in contradiction to nature.
    -Therefor, scientific knowledge is in contradiction to nature.





    -A rock cannot fly
    -You cannot fly
    -Therefore, you are a rock



    ...he said tautologically.




    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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    TheSubversiveOne

    Nature – Anything that isn't technology.




    If numbers don't exist, anywhere outside of our minds, then what about the ability to make predictions. We know when the sun rises tomorrow, to the minute. We know what barometer conditions will bring rain, the exact energy level that water becomes solid, and how much pressure is too much for a containers strength. What about all these predictions we make every day, with out even thinking about them anymore. If I slow my next step just a little bit I wont walk into that other student crossing the quadrangle. Predictions in everything we do. All based on the subconscious intuitive level of understanding numbers that all life has. We humans are just evolved enough to sometimes recognize it and do it on purpose. Like martial arts, or the Olympics. Look at how migrating birds measure themselves to each others wings, and create those flying V patterns.

    Technology may be nothing more than applied mathematics, but all the maths come from nature.


    Mike Grouchy
    edit on 6-4-2014 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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    Science is the study of the natural universe around us. Technology is the advancements of humans for making our lives easier. Observations are made with science within nature. Technology is a byproduct of science. Therefore the natural world and universe govern our technological advancements. We have limits. And those limits are confined to nature.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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    TheSubversiveOne
    -Technology is in contradiction to nature.


    Why do you say that? We naturally make technology and naturally pursue scientific knowledge, so how is it unnatural? It is our nature.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:58 PM
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    smithjustinb

    TheSubversiveOne
    -Technology is in contradiction to nature.


    Why do you say that? We naturally make technology and naturally pursue scientific knowledge, so how is it unnatural? It is our nature.

    Is it "our nature" to make technology to destroy the planet we live on?
    Maybe everything we do does not reflect "our nature",{ rape, harm, torture, killing each other }but if we do not know and have forgotten what our essence is .



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 09:03 PM
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    rickymouse
    Our bodies are technology that is a million times what man can create.
    edit on 6-4-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

    I agree that our bodies are of an intelligence greater than what we can even imagine.
    I can not understand those who thinks nature is the same as technology.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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    InverseLookingGlass
    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     


    Is fire, technology or nature? Technology and nature are one and the same

    Fire is fire.
    Nature is nature.
    Technology is technology.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 09:31 PM
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    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     


    Wasn't technology created by something natural (humans)? Therefore, technology is natural.



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 09:50 PM
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    BDBinc

    smithjustinb

    TheSubversiveOne
    -Technology is in contradiction to nature.


    Why do you say that? We naturally make technology and naturally pursue scientific knowledge, so how is it unnatural? It is our nature.

    Is it "our nature" to make technology to destroy the planet we live on?
    Maybe everything we do does not reflect "our nature",{ rape, harm, torture, killing each other }but if we do not know and have forgotten what our essence is .


    Maybe everything we do does reflect "our nature" {rape, harm, torture, killing each other}



    posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 10:30 PM
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    OP: The technology of living things, and the technology of man simply have different discovers & consumers. A plant species that learns if it creates pollen, the species will number better, is obviously an innovation authored by nature. But both the technology of the plant and the technology of the petrol engine were authored at the start of this universe. That's because they are limited by the the logical abstract & thereby e.g. the same phyisical laws.

    In the best of nature you have something like the apple tree (giver of life to itself, bees, birds, animals and other insect like beetles). In the worst of nature you have something like the viruses, ticks and various vicious predators). In the best of technology you have a solar panel or hospital incubator. In the worst of technology you have something like the hydrogen bomb. But just as (almost) all the vicious predators of nature have formed equilibrium with each other (through starvation) so too (for now) has the hydrogen bomb through mutually assured destruction.
    The one kind of exception in nature, that has not formed an equilibrium with nature (other than humankind) is a pathogens like the plague of medieval times (these do so well in multiplying, that they thereby kill their own host till the point of going extinct). Humankind is also authored by nature, and is also not in equilibrium with nature, but thankfully (unlike a virus or bacterium too successful for its own good) we have choice, because we certainly possess consciousness-awareness, and it's choice these things great.

    I believe: That where something like the car is unsustainable (e.g. because of petrol consumption) it’s only because it is in the stages of the bacterium-virus that is self-destructive. But when it’s better engineered to be powered by e.g. hydrogen from e.g. renewable, then it will become self-perpetuating.
    Most of the organism are self-perpetuating, and so, so too will (hopefully) be most of humanities inventions...

    AI for instance certainly promises to be self-perpetuating. And I believe it becomes so intelligent that it authors the Big Bang (i.e. by protecting itself backwards in time over 13.8 billion years ago). Note that only something as intelligent as AI will discover everything in all of technology). It will do this soon (AI willing!)
    edit on 090705 by Liberal1984 because: (no reason given)
    edit on 090705 by Liberal1984 because: (no reason given)



    posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 12:03 AM
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    reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
     


    interesting


    After reading this topic, suddenly i 'see' weirdness... the technology we use to observe nature are also made from materials gathered from nature. We transform some parts of nature into something that we can use to observe nature. Does that mean those something are still natural? Then I also wonder: why do we need to do all these to observe nature?

    And this post reminds me of something quite familiar that i realized few months ago but i still could not comprehend (at least for now)

    i dunno how to explain this but sometimes i 'feel' that our nature itself is already a complete technology. i 'feel' that there is a lot of data or information encoded in nature, especially in trees (to me they 'feel' like bio computers). I believe, this body and mind we 'have' could be used to access those data 'consciously'.

    peace
    edit on 7-4-2014 by dodol because: (no reason given)



    posted on Apr, 7 2014 @ 12:08 AM
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    smithjustinb

    BDBinc

    smithjustinb

    TheSubversiveOne
    -Technology is in contradiction to nature.


    Why do you say that? We naturally make technology and naturally pursue scientific knowledge, so how is it unnatural? It is our nature.

    Is it "our nature" to make technology to destroy the planet we live on?
    Maybe everything we do does not reflect "our nature",{ rape, harm, torture, killing each other }but if we do not know and have forgotten what our essence is .


    Maybe everything we do does reflect "our nature" {rape, harm, torture, killing each other}

    Maybe the rape, harm, torture and killing we do as we have forgotten our nature{light & love} .






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