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Mormon / Mason / NWO connection?

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posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 01:45 PM
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I've seen an old post or two on this but I wanted to start a more focused thread on this subject. I used to be associated the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Please note I was not a member, but I attended services over a two year period, went on a religious pilgramage to Palmyra, attended Institute (college courses used for further indoctrination and a continuance of seminary which high school students go to.) My gf / ex-fiance at the time got me into it, she was directly related to Martin Haris one of the 3 witnesses so her family was very much part of the church pretty much since its inception and I definetely was not going to be accepted unless I joined. Fortunately after doing years of research and prayer I came to find out what the church was, however this is for another topic. I wanted to talk about the connection between the free-masons and the mormons, something I wrote a paper on in college.

Around the time Joseph Smith was supposedly transcribing the Book of Mormon from the golden plates given him by the angel Moroni, there was a anti-mason fevor occuring in the country. I forget the exact specifics but a mason published a book publicly making known the major ceremonies and some secrets of the free-masons. He was found shortly after drowned in a lake. I believe it was supposed to look like a suicide but it was fairly obvious he had been "silenced." If one examines the Book of Mormon one of the main themes is that "secret combinations" are abhorrant to God. Secret combinations are secret socities, a direct reference to the masons and what was occuring at the time. I used to think this was a good piece of evidence that the book of mormon was contemporary literature and not inspired from an ancient civilization. Now I think it was to throw people off of the connection that actually existed to the Masons. What better way to hide an alliance then to come out and publicly condemn your ally.

Anyway, also in my research it came up that Joseph Smith may not have even written the book of mormon, that it may have been written by more learned people of his day and given to him to start the church. What more learned people at the time the members of the masons?

Next, it is factual knowledge that Hyram Smith, the brother of Joseph Smith was a free-mason at the time of the creation of the church so there is a connection there. It is also known that Joseph Smith joined the freemasons at a later date and was an active member by the building of Navoo Illinoise. When he and his brother were killed he was found to have a Jupiter medal around his neck, a pagan symbol and one I believe has signifigance to the freemasons but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Third (or fourth lol?) Joseph Smith took the temple ceremonies from the free-masons and put them into place almost word for work in the mormon temples. If one has access to both texts the similarity is astounding. In fact I believe that the Church hierarchy actually acknowldged this fact saying that Smith had determined the rituals to be both ancient and divine. I will be happy to post the similarities but I am not sure of the legalities of posting secret oaths on a public forum.

Ok, please respond and help me with this. I will post another post on the spiritual side of the church and some concerns I have but I wanted feedback on this physcial connection first. Thanks.




posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by jukyu
I forget the exact specifics but a mason published a book publicly making known the major ceremonies and some secrets of the free-masons. He was found shortly after drowned in a lake. I believe it was supposed to look like a suicide but it was fairly obvious he had been "silenced."


You are referring to the so-called "Morgan Affair." William Morgan was a non-Mason but had conned his way into a Lodge in Batavia, NY. He led all the Masons in the area to believe he was a Mason in order to receive Masonic charity.

After receiving thousands of dollars in charity, it was finally discovered that he was neither a Mason, nor was he disabled. The local Masons were angry at having been conned, and they stopped sending him money.
This in turn angered Morgan, who tried to blackmail the Lodge by threatening to write a book publishing secret Masonic ritual if they didn't keep sending him money. He was soon arrested for bad debt in an unrelated situation, was bailed out, and kidnapped by 7 members of the local Lodge. He was never seen again, but his body was never found.


Anyway, also in my research it came up that Joseph Smith may not have even written the book of mormon, that it may have been written by more learned people of his day and given to him to start the church. What more learned people at the time the members of the masons?


Smith was a Mason for only a very short time. He, along with several thousand others, were initiated irregularly in Nauvoo; they were all expelled en masse by the Grand Master of Illinois several weeks later, presumably because they were polygamists.

You may be interested in the following website, written by a Mason who is an ex-Mormon:

www.masonicmoroni.com...

[edit on 26-11-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 02:10 PM
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Thanks for the post, I'll check it out. Glad I can get such quick analysis and feedback here.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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Ok I've been researching and I wanted to make a couple of points. First of all the morgan affair has nothing to do with the connection I made. I simply used it to show my original line of thought toward the relationship believing the two organizations were originally enemies but now I wonder if this was the case considering the connections I listed in the early life of the church as well as the rather large connections afterwards. However it is interesting to note that in reading further into this Morgan and Smith apparantly knew each other and Morgan almost became a mormon. It makes an interesting connection but where that connections goes I'm not sure yet.

Second give me documentation of when Smith and others were thrown out by the grandmaster. Everything I see claims that the navoo lodges lasted for years, there were over 1300 members enough for 5 seperate lodges. I also found references of similarity between the origins of mormonism with the golden plates and the stone vault they were sealed in and the mythos? surrounding the creation of freemasonry. I admit I don't know anything about this I plan to do more research I just bring it up for assistance from those more learned then I. I also found the interesting connection of the son, moon, and stars. This is a big theme in mormonism seperating the three levels of heaven and they are apparently also big symbols in freemasonry. In fact one of the sun stones from the Navoo temple sits in the Smithsonian. Finally, I found a quote from Smith's mother who had become so exasperated with the amount of masonic activity in her home that she asked that it be ceased so that some work could get done. Thanks again for spurring me in the direction of more information. Hope this opens up more discussion and debate on the subject.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by jukyu


Second give me documentation of when Smith and others were thrown out by the grandmaster. Everything I see claims that the navoo lodges lasted for years, there were over 1300 members enough for 5 seperate lodges.


Yes, some of the Lodges continued to operate, but they were illegitimate because they had no charters from the Grand Lodge.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 03:42 PM
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Documentation? I don't doubt you I just want documentation so I can satisfy that point in my mind and put it in context.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by jukyu
Documentation? I don't doubt you I just want documentation so I can satisfy that point in my mind and put it in context.


I'm not sure if you can find it online. If not, you may have to check your local library for copies of "Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia" by Henry Wilson Coil (see the entry under "Mormonism and Masonry").



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 05:09 PM
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I'll look it up, thanks.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:37 PM
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Well, jukyu, I'm surprised there haven't been more replies to your original topic. I see the only person who has replied is Masonic Light, who, (forgive me if I'm wrong), is a Mason himself. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but considering the subject matter it would make sense that you are atleast a little bit biased, and understandably want to defend yourself and your Brethren.) Now as a non-Mason and ex-Mormon, (16 years as a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), I think you might find my views on this subject atleast somewhat interesting, since I am probably going to be biased in a different way than what's previously been said, although I must admit Masonic Light has brought up some very good points.

Now when I saw your topic I was impressed because I have the same theory. I thought perhaps yours was more developed because I think you said you wrote a paper on it or something, but I kind of get the feeling that my theory is a little more developed.

You mentioned that the Book of Mormon has been suspected of being written by someone other than Joseph Smith, and the theory being that the Masons wrote it for him. This is a large part of my theory, also.

Now Masonic Light may have more information on this than me, but if I recall, Mormons were not allowed to be Masons for awhile. I'm going to assume from something Masonic Light said earlier, that this was due to the fact that they allowed polygamy. I think today Mormons are allowed to be Masons, I know a Mormon who is a Mason so I hope I'm not wrong. Mormons are not allowed to be polygamists anymore, so that could be the reason. But part of my theory is that that could've been a front, to make people think that Masons and Mormons were not in any way affiliated and never would be planning NWO.

Anyway, this is my theory. It's just that, though: a theory. Kind of a primordial ooze made up of small bits and pieces of facts and assumptions, but it's a fairly interesting theory in my opinion.

(Before I say it I've been saying in my other posts that I know next to nothing about the Masons, so everything I'm saying is SPECULATION in the most literal sense of the word. I don't want you Masons to think I'm suddenly against you when I was just recently saying I have nothing against you...yet...because I don't know much about you.)

So anyway, this is the theory: The Masons are planning they're whole New World Order thing. Things have been going somewhat as planned for a few hundred or so years or whatever, but the process is just going SO slow! They feel they need to throw something new in. By doing this they also might take some of the attention of the cult-accusers off of them. So they convince a bright young man that he is a Prophet. (They may have staged the Angel Moroni's and God's and Christ's appearances, or maybe they convinced him to lie about it.) So he "translates" the Golden Plates into the Book of Mormon.

He also does the whole temple thing, which is obviously strikingly similar to the Masonic rituals, not to mention the symbols.

Now, the Mormons run around for about a hundred years or whatever, converting a countless number of people, (including my ancestors), until today it is the fastest growing religion on the planet with a number of well over 11 million members.

Now at the head of the Mormon church is the Prophet, which today is President Gordon B. Hinckley. I have trouble believing he is part of this whole conspiracy, although he might be, but I believe he is a pawn in the whole sordid thing. He has all this power over the Mormons, (almost total mind control if you ask me), because they believe he speaks for God. (Yes, I was one of those poor saps.)

There is a little-talked-about belief in the Mormon Church that somewhere around the time of the Second Coming or Armageddon or the Millenium or whatever, that the United States government will need to be taken over by the Mormons. And I quote Brigham Young, former Prophet of the Mormon Church: "When the Constitution of the United States hangs, at it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it." (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 361)

So I think that it's POSSIBLE, that the Masons will do something to make the government fall apart, (aren't they currently infiltrating it?
) See my post about how over 90% of my superiors in the Army are Masons. And then once the government falls apart and "hangs as it were by a thread", the Mormons will step in and take over. However, the whole while, the Masons are watching as their plan unfolds. The Masons are pulling the strings and somehow controlling the Mormons, although they really only need control over one man: the Prophet. Everything he says goes. And as a Mormon I was always taught that one day I may be called upon by the Prophet to do a special mission "for God", and I was asked if I would be righteous and do what I was told no matter how weird it seemed to me. So now, the higher-ranked Masons or whatever, have control over the Masons, the Mormons, and the United States Government AND military.

Well, that's a whole lot of fluff, and now that I look at it it's not quite as developed as I had thought. A lot of theorizing and not much fact, but hopefully I said a thing or two that sparks something in your search for the truth.

If you find anything else out let me know! I'll be sure and share anything else I find out with you.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by an3rkist]


[edit on 26-11-2004 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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Anarchist,

You are correct that at one time, the Grand Lodges of Utah and Nevada refused to allow Mormons to become Masons. This is no longer the case, and polygamy was indeed the issue.

As for the Book of Mormon itself, I suppose it's a matter of personal opinion, but I am of the belief that Smith probably wrote the entire thing himself. The various books contain an almost identical writing style; consider, for example, the phrase "And it came to pass..." occurs on average 3 or 4 times per page, regardless of which book. Things like this indicate a single author.

Also, during Smith's time, it was a poplular hypothesis that Native Americans were descendants of a "lost tribe of Israel"; this belief of Smith's was not very unique. His contribution to the Jewish-Indian myth was his assertion that a vast and great civilization once existed in America, even before the rise of the Lamanites, an ethnic group which appears to be completely fictional. Modern anthropolgy indicates that Native Americans are most probably descendants of Mongoloids who migrated from Asia during the Ice Age, but this is not likely to change the beliefs of Mormons any more than modern scientific discoveries will change the mind of the evangelical Protestant who believes in literal biblical creationism, or the minds of the 17th century popes when Galileo published his findings.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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I'm an ex-mormon (BTW any more exmos out there?), and have heard quite a bit about the mormon/mason thing. The temple ordinances are very similar, however I think this is just a plagarism by JS as opposed to conspiracy. At one point in Utah, no mormon was allowed to be a freemason. While the LDS church is pretty monolithic, I don't think they're associated with freemasons and/or NWO. My belief is that the presidency of the church truly believe the chuch is true. It just doesn't mesh with me that the presidency is running a house of mirrors knowingly. I know how devoted the membership from which the leaders come can be.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by BillyD
I'm an ex-mormon (BTW any more exmos out there?), and have heard quite a bit about the mormon/mason thing. The temple ordinances are very similar, however I think this is just a plagarism by JS as opposed to conspiracy. At one point in Utah, no mormon was allowed to be a freemason. While the LDS church is pretty monolithic, I don't think they're associated with freemasons and/or NWO. My belief is that the presidency of the church truly believe the chuch is true. It just doesn't mesh with me that the presidency is running a house of mirrors knowingly. I know how devoted the membership from which the leaders come can be.


In case you didn't read in my other posts I am ex-Mormon. (Did you try to have your name removed their records? I found out that they never actually remove your name, they do something to the effect of putting the word "removed" next to your name or something dumb like that. Apparently once a Mormon, always a Mormon.)

As for the thing about no Mormon being allowed to be a Mason for awhile, I think I mentioned it early, but as for the conspiracy theory, that part would be explained as a front, so nobody would think there was anything going on between the two. As for the Presidency truly believing in what their doing, I can see why you would think that, and may agree with you also. However, as I think I said in one of my previous posts, it's possible that they are just pawns in the whole sordid conspiracy. They could believe it, but unknowingly be puppets of the Masons. It's a complicated conspiracy theory, but a fun one in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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am not an ex-mo but i live here in a main artery of the mormon religion in idaho falls, id. i have been doing a lot of research about them and right of noticed some connection between them and the masons (we even have a masonic lodge with the pentegram right in plain sight) and i have the scary feeling that what is being said here about them is true...boy i am so glad to be talking to others here who are well informed about the bigger things in life and are open-minded and i mean that as a compliment!! c-ya later!



posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 08:20 PM
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I am an active member of the LDS Faith and to be honest find the speculation about the connection between the masons, NWO and the Mormons to be quite laughable. Yes, there are some striking similarities between the LDS Temple ceremony and Masonic ceremonies, there are also many differences.
As to being told to blindly follow what ever the Prophet says, I dont think anything could be more incorrect. I served a mission for two years and taught people that there was a cycle, God gave the information to the Prophets, the Prophets to the people, and then the people went back to God in prayer to confirm if the Prophets were speaking Gods will. Even today the LDS faith encourages people to confirm this by meditation and prayer. Weather or not you believe that there is a God or that he uses prophets is irrelevant, the fact is that people in the LDS faith are encouraged to think and decide for themselves if what they are hearing is true. The majority of LDS people that I know are well educated and incredibly well informed. Portraying them as sheep is, in my view, highly inaccurate. Obviously I cannot speak for every Mormon in the world and your experience may be different than mine, however I do feel that members of the LDS faith are being cast in an ignorant light that is not justified.

Oh and vonwoolf, I'm from Pocatello, just down the road from you, so howdy neighbor.



posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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Joseph Smith -who had never been a mason was made a 33rd degree Freemason in one day. Do you know how that happened



posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
Joseph Smith -who had never been a mason was made a 33rd degree Freemason in one day. Do you know how that happened


Joseph Smith was not a 33 Mason. The 33 is an honorary degree in the Scottish Rite, and Smith was never a member of the Scottish Rite.

Smith did, however, receive the three degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry in one day, along with over a thousand other candidates, most of whom were Mormons. As mentioned above, this mass initiation was irregular and violated Masonic law, which resulted in everyone involved being expelled soon after.



[edit on 31-12-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 04:05 PM
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Yet another former mo weighing in here. I always thought there was something up with mormonism from the time I was first able to get a cognizant impression of the world around me. I however do not have a beef with the rank and file members, if anything I feel sorry for them and would do anything to protect them. I have a couple of things to say so bear with me.
Whatever association the church may have with the nwo seems to be within certain factions of the church (doesn't describe it right but close as I can come). As far as rank and filers go the church as a whole is on the FEMA hitlist which would indicate they are not exactly loved hehe. Many many federal employees openly admit that portions of the government trust the mormons as much as a case of 90 year old dynamite.
The leadership on the other hand, they're a different story, I spent 5 of the last 6 years living in Orem Utah (40 miles from Salt Lake City, the mo vatican). In that time I witnessed alot of interesting things, done by some interesting people. If anyone is interested in what I saw they can U2U me, I'll be glad to relate what I know about the shielding of certain families from legal consequences odd rituals in the canyons and the like around there and just the general weirdness and the closed nature of the upper levels of mormonism.



posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Umbra_saltator
Even today the LDS faith encourages people to confirm this by meditation and prayer.


So if God replies, the Prophet is lying, and if he keeps quiet, all must be well? Prayer and meditation in the form the Prophet tells you is not really in the same field as 'thinking for themselves.'

And why couldn't the Book or Mormon be written by many people? Masonic Light- you said that the style is consistent, even repeating the line "And it came to pass" on average several times a page. While you say this shows a single author, it would actually make it easier for many authors to co-write the book. Using a similar phrase is he easiest way to copy a style. For example (its just a metaphor, don't take me literally) the second we heard "Once upoon a time..." we think FAIRYTALE. Whether or not the story is a fairytale or who it is written by, we connect them all through this single phrase. Many authors- single phrase. I think they could pull it off easily. And with the anti-secret society feel of the book, doesn't it seem an even better plot to protect the secrecy of the masons?

Alrighty, I'm spewing out conspiracy after conspiracy. I'm done.


PS- I'm neither Mason nor Mormon, so there's my lack of bias. However, I am a writer, which could explain why I'm bringingup already dead topics about old books and who wrote them


[edit on 12-31-04 by Scat]



posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Scat

And why couldn't the Book or Mormon be written by many people? Masonic Light... And with the anti-secret society feel of the book, doesn't it seem an even better plot to protect the secrecy of the masons?


It could have been written by many people; in fact, Smith could have been telling the truth, and the Book could have been written by the ancient prophets. It's very unlikely in my opinion, but is at least possible.

On the other hand, you could also be correct, and it could have been written by Smith and a few buddies.

What I wrote in my earlier post was that it is my opinion that Smith wrote it by himself. My opinion on this is based primarily on the similarity of writing style and word usage throughout the various books.



posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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More than 25 years ago I was baptized a Mormon to please my recently
converted parents.

Being the holdout in the family subjects you to unbelievable pressure from the
very sweet, very well intended membership.
Honestly, these were some of nicest people I have ever met.

As I became more familiar with certain church doctrines, that's where
the enchantment soon wore off .

To be a male member "in good standing"
one was required to commit 10% of your income as tithing.
At that time, blacks were still prohibited from accepting the priesthood.
A rather questionable " divine revelation " ( under pressure from the NAACP )
finally changed that policy.
Women were encourage to have lots of little Mormons which seemed to
be founded by the fear that minorities would soon threaten national security
and that the more, the merrier ( see tithing )
I smoke like a chimney and love my coffee!
They kept introducing me to all these " nice girls "
while I was touring full time with a professional rock and roll band.



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