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Hummm Guess who supplies the Airforce with engines for the Atlas launch vehicles ?

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posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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www.reuters.com/.../2014/03/...engines-idUSL2N0M824A20140311


(Reuters) - The crisis in Ukraine has not jeopardized the longstanding relationship between the U.S. Air Force and the Russian company that builds engines for the rockets used to launch large U.S. government satellites, a U.S. official said on Tuesday.


I first heard this from John B. Wells and his Caravan to Midnight internet show.. I found it hard to believe so I did a search with the key words " Airforce Atlas missile engines are supplied by " and guess what (?) not only do we hitch a Russian ride to the space station but we also buy their rocket engines to launch our satellites !

I did know it would have been very hard for us to build the SR-71 without Russian Titanium which they sold to us.. Anyway it really did surprise me to find this out as it probably will you.


He also said the Air Force was keeping an eye on a Pentagon investigation into how U.S. weapons makers manage their supply chains after Chinese raw materials or components were found on U.S. weapons systems, including Lockheed Martin's F-35 and F-16 fighter jets, Boeing's B-1B, and the SM-3 IIA missile.


How far we have gone down this road is anyone's guess... Global market or Global stupidity ?




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 





Global market or Global stupidity ?


i vote Global stupidity. buying anything from a foreign country that relates to a county's security, military, or scientific need's is just plain stupid.

even if your allies, you should not place your interest in jeopardy.


edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:06 PM
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Well, if you don't have the resources, you will buy them from the countries that do have them... otherwise you have no other way to get the materials you need.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:15 PM
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I think all the world leaders are in bed together. Who controls them is the bone of contention.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:17 PM
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aLLeKs
Well, if you don't have the resources, you will buy them from the countries that do have them... otherwise you have no other way to get the materials you need.


That is very true and I will add if your education system does not turn out the engineers who can make the products you need or at a particular price point..... you are forced to go outside your borders.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:37 PM
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hounddoghowlie
reply to post by 727Sky
 





Global market or Global stupidity ?


i vote Global stupidity. buying anything from a foreign country that relates to a county's security, military, or scientific need's is just plain stupid.

even if your ally, you should not place your interest in jeopardy.


edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Any part of the rocket or weapon can come from any country. That little computer chip that they program to make it work I am sure is made by us. Bad analogy, Kind of like how a firearm wont fire without a finger, regardless where it is made.
Firepiston
edit on 5-4-2014 by FirePiston because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by FirePiston
 





FirePiston
Any part of the rocket or weapon can come from any country. That little computer chip that they program to make it work I am sure is made by us. Bad analogy, Kind of like how a firearm wont fire without a finger, regardless where it is made.


not really.



Specifically, the American-designed, Chinese-made Actel/Microsemi ProASIC3 A3P250 — commonly known as the PA3 — chip was found by Cambridge researcher, Sergei Skorobogatov, to have a backdoor, or trojan, deliberately built into it. The PA3 is what’s called a Field Reprogrammable Gate Array (FRGA); an almost blank slate of a microchip that can be programmed by its owner to perform a variety of tasks. Proof That Military Chips From China Are Infected? Read more: defensetech.org... Defense.org


and the full report from the researcher who found the back door.
Backdoors Embedded in DoD Microchips From China
and a report to the house committee / subcommittee. it's a PDF

Before the House Committee on Homeland Security Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations and Management Counterfeit Semiconductors – A Clear and Present Threat


so if one is doing it, you can bet others are trying. makes no sense to trust other countries in this aspect.

edit on 6-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:09 PM
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hounddoghowlie
reply to post by FirePiston
 





FirePiston
Any part of the rocket or weapon can come from any country. That little computer chip that they program to make it work I am sure is made by us. Bad analogy, Kind of like how a firearm wont fire without a finger, regardless where it is made.


not really.



Specifically, the American-designed, Chinese-made Actel/Microsemi ProASIC3 A3P250 — commonly known as the PA3 — chip was found by Cambridge researcher, Sergei Skorobogatov, to have a backdoor, or trojan, deliberately built into it. The PA3 is what’s called a Field Reprogrammable Gate Array (FRGA); an almost blank slate of a microchip that can be programmed by its owner to perform a variety of tasks. Proof That Military Chips From China Are Infected? Read more: defensetech.org... Defense.org


and the full report from the redeacher who found the back door.
Backdoors Embedded in DoD Microchips From China

so if one is doing it, you can bet others are trying. makes no sense to trust other countries in this aspect.
edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



Well if the gov is too dumb to run a malwarebytes scan on their missile chips than we deserve it.
And no not malwarebytes but their equivilent.
Firepiston



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 12:07 AM
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There are certain things that a country should not outsource. However, isn't it possible that there are contingencies in place in the event that foreign supplies are cut off? But if these things could be produced in the US, then they should be, eliminating the need for foreign dependence. But this is just another example of how China's economy, and Russia's economy, are dependent upon the US. This is partly why I said Russia would never invade the Ukraine, and why China will not launch a surprise war in the near future. Too many companies from those countries, whose incomes bolster the country's economy, have important relationships with American businesses. And then there are the direct financial relationships between the governments of these countries.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 12:46 AM
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Our buisness leaders killed our industry to pursue profit overseas.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 


Russia allows a USA supply line through their country to Afghanistan as well. Same sides but not in public.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 


This is all a joke. A grand piece of theater and people always fall for it. I neither dont care about ukraine or the missing plane. These are just diversion from others more important things. I laugh at the so called ignorance deniers that are taking this so seriously. This is a farce.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 


I'm not surprised at all.
business as usual.

also, it is probably a very good deal; I'm sure Russians are able to make great systems for a reasonable price.
it doesn't have to mean that USA itself cannot make it but they are always looking for a better price.

money talks; always was and always will.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by nugget1
 


I'm not saying it's aliens but it's aliens. lol


Many countries sell weapons and other black market items, not to mention the normal stuff. Many of therm are in bed together. Everything's about money. Money. It should be about love. War is a big money maker and America and Israel make a killing from it. Russia too. China also.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the replies: I suppose the old adage " International companies know no borders and owe allegiance to none" may have some truth to it ?

If the battle lines were drawn and by some simple means your enemy's weapons could be made impotent by already installed high tec gizmos you once sold for money and a future event already prepared/planned for; what is the not to like by the winning side?



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 11:23 PM
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There's an interesting thread over at Nasaspaceflight about Lockheed/ULA's options for finding a domestic source for engines for the Atlas V. Link here.

As I understand it, Lockheed currently has enough engines on-hand to satisfy launch requirements for the next 2 years. In addition, RD AMROSS, the joint venture between Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne and NPO Energomash which actually produces the RD-180 engine, has the rights to produce the engine in the US. Starting up a production line, however, is estimated to take about 5 years and cost somewhere around a billion dollars. This does not include the cost of the engines themselves, just the US production line; it stands to reason that a Made-in-the-USA RD-180 clone would cost more than the original, Russian-made version. Exactly how much more, no one seems to know.

It isn't only the Atlas V that will be affected by this. The Antares rocket, built by Orbital Sciences to take supplies to the ISS, has engines which are produced in Russia and a first stage which is produced in Ukraine. According to this article in Aviation Week, they've already been looking for a viable replacement for a while now.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 02:24 AM
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hounddoghowlie
reply to post by 727Sky
 





Global market or Global stupidity ?


i vote Global stupidity. buying anything from a foreign country that relates to a county's security, military, or scientific need's is just plain stupid.

even if your allies, you should not place your interest in jeopardy.


edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Except that in the real world, some countries are endowed with certain mineral resources while others are not. This is true for the USA as well. USA requires some minerals that cannot be mined in its geographical borders. The real tragedy is how the US government liquidated most of its stockpiles of rare mineral reserves after the fall of the USSR. Huge strategic blunder.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 03:15 AM
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Vovin

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by 727Sky
 





Global market or Global stupidity ?


i vote Global stupidity. buying anything from a foreign country that relates to a county's security, military, or scientific need's is just plain stupid.

even if your allies, you should not place your interest in jeopardy.


edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Except that in the real world, some countries are endowed with certain mineral resources while others are not. This is true for the USA as well. USA requires some minerals that cannot be mined in its geographical borders. The real tragedy is how the US government liquidated most of its stockpiles of rare mineral reserves after the fall of the USSR. Huge strategic blunder.


one would think that USA would be smart enough to secure some mineral resources from Afghanistan...
after all, that is one of the reasons why USA fought in Afghanistan.
it seems however that Chinese bribe money is more interesting for Afghanistan.

success or failure?
depends on who you working for...



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 07:25 AM
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demus

Vovin

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by 727Sky
 





Global market or Global stupidity ?


i vote Global stupidity. buying anything from a foreign country that relates to a county's security, military, or scientific need's is just plain stupid.

even if your allies, you should not place your interest in jeopardy.


edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Except that in the real world, some countries are endowed with certain mineral resources while others are not. This is true for the USA as well. USA requires some minerals that cannot be mined in its geographical borders. The real tragedy is how the US government liquidated most of its stockpiles of rare mineral reserves after the fall of the USSR. Huge strategic blunder.


one would think that USA would be smart enough to secure some mineral resources from Afghanistan...
after all, that is one of the reasons why USA fought in Afghanistan.
it seems however that Chinese bribe money is more interesting for Afghanistan.

success or failure?
depends on who you working for...


Afghanistan will never be stable enough for effective mining.

Africa is the key mining frontier, and China had a good hold on it.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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Vovin

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by 727Sky
 





Global market or Global stupidity ?


i vote Global stupidity. buying anything from a foreign country that relates to a county's security, military, or scientific need's is just plain stupid.

even if your allies, you should not place your interest in jeopardy.


edit on 5-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Except that in the real world, some countries are endowed with certain mineral resources while others are not. This is true for the USA as well. USA requires some minerals that cannot be mined in its geographical borders. The real tragedy is how the US government liquidated most of its stockpiles of rare mineral reserves after the fall of the USSR. Huge strategic blunder.


i agree with most of that, except raw materials is a far cry from finished goods. you can't put a back door in a raw silicon, and you can't manufacturer a defeat in raw iron ore so that a engine shuts down in mid flight. i suppose you could add stuff to the raw materials that would cause problems.but that would be found during the refining process and could be corrected.

it's a big step from raw materials to finished product.



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