New Age beliefs that some Christians believe that is not supported in The Bible

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

In my opinion the New Age movement is only reconciling what Christianity and other religions have perverted for thousands of years. It is not New Age that is changing Christianity's teachings, it is Christianity that changed "Old Age" teachings that are only now being reconciled by the "New Age".

If New Age is "changing" anything, it is for the better and for the truth in my opinion. It is "changing" it back to its original form be for religious and political corruption.

That is certainly one take, and I agree, both have been around for a long time.

reply to post by arpgme

To answer your question: Just because you say "Lord Jesus! Lord Jesus!" that doesn't make you a Christians (Matthew 7:21-22). Only if you live by The Spirit which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control, and if you live by The Spirit then it doesn't matter what you call yourself because God's people are scattered (Matthew 26:31) and wolves hide as sheep (Matthew 7:15), so we can know if they are truly Christians if they live by The Spirit , not by what they call themselves or refuse to call themselves.

This is truth...

So Jesus was talking about The Jewish Pharisees who followed The Old Testament. So, why is it then that Jesus referenced Moses in a positive light, if The Old Testament is bad?

Moses was their hero, and still is... but ultimately, he was a warlord, and a conqueror... Not a Shepard

Akragon
hero, and still is... but ultimately, he was a warlord, and a conqueror... Not a Shepard

Which explains why they where so shocked when Jesus said his kingdom wasn't here.


But ultimately its a problem of perspective.

From the Jewish mindset, they where the "chosen" people because they are just so special.

They asked God for things, and he gave.

The people that Weren't Jewish, where fuels for the fires of hell, to torture the unrighteous jews (See gentiles not even worthy of proper judgement, only as fuel to judge the people that matter).

You must take the OT as a history as well as theology book, it is very much from that Jewish perspective, its why the wars are so praised, and things like genocide a good thing.

Because to those writing it at the time it was.

It could be said, it was a long term lesson to be learned.

Which brings in Christ, with the perspective you expound on those Jews that thought they where sooooooo special for following only the letter of the law...


Now from the Christian Perspective.

The jews are "chosen" BECAUSE of their flawed nature, to show that its not them, its gods nature that made them special.

In all their errors, he rewards the faithful one man, for the one mans sake, his offspring are blessed, despite who they are.

Moses is a conqueror Because, its what the Jewish people cried for from God coming out of Egypt.

There is a rich tail and lesson there that is glossed over by painting it so simplistic.


Taken as a whole, you need to understand greater over arching theological, and social concepts from the time, that both directly tie into whats being stated in the text.

And, hard concepts, like some people deserve punishment.

reply to post by Akragon


Moses was a warlord and conqueror according to OT history, but anyone can create a story around a character and his teachings that are not true.

What if the bad guys got a hold of Moses' teachings then attributed their own actions onto his persona all while adding lies to the truth he spoke?

I think this is what always happens, the good guys get killed then roles are switched and the actions of the bad guys are attributed to the good guys and they add to the teachings of the good guys obscuring their true message.

My opinion of course.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Just to add to this, the reason I believe this is a possibility with Moses is because of what Jesus said about Moses, saying if they believed Moses they would believe him. I think Moses and Jesus share the same Spirit (as do we all in the end), but just as with Jesus, Moses' message was corrupted by those in power at the time.

Jesus speaking well of Moses is like me speaking well of Jesus, but we still both know the message was changed and we can still see that nugget of truth that was preserved within the changed message.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What if the bad guys got a hold of Moses' teachings then attributed their own actions onto his persona all while adding lies to the truth he spoke?

I don't think that is the case with much of the OT... they were brutal times 2000 years ago...

Its well documented in writing from before and after the time of Jesus, texts outside of the bible describe the time as exactly that... a brutal time to be alive...

What happens in this age is the church glosses over the actions of biblical characters with a fluffy soft version of the story of the events with no mention of the brutality within the texts...

No church will discuss the slaughter of the innocents within the bible, save the actual story that carries said name relating to Herod...

They will never teach anything that may cause doubt within their "flock"... and in many cases Christians are shocked to say the least when they actually find out for themselves what is actually in the texts of the bible...

This is why I say the people before Jesus did not know God...

Jesus brought a change in the world... unlike any man before, or after him

reply to post by benrl

Would I want to kill someone that harms my Child? Damn right, does that make me better no.

So you are saying would kill them if you got the chance? I'm not trying to be facetious just understand where you're coming from.

If you hate the criminal he's won your heart. He has made you into a version of himself. If you hate him back you become like him inside. Even if you don't kill anyone.

Look at trials where the killer sits smug while the relatives of victims seethe in the courtroom. He has stolen their hearts, their reason from them. Where they were once loving people, he has supplanted that love with hatred because of what he's done.

Did you ever hear of that Amish or Mennonite community where that children's school was attacked? Do you remember what their response was to that horrific incident? I am trying to find a link about the response of the community and can't.

Suffice:

They stopped the press cold, refusing to give press conferences about gory details. They buried their dead, bulldozed the school and accepted a sizable donation which they divided amongst the family survivors and relatives of the offender. I think they even visited the killers family and bade them not to worry they (the Amish) had no ill will towards them. Then they let it go…

no further actions or press or publications are supported or commented on by them on the matter.

Outstanding. That is true forgiveness. That is true love. I hope that helps you understand "my point".

reply to post by intrptr


I rather imagine they also did it because it is not their way to seek interaction with the outside. Whether or not they all perfectly forgave the murderer we cannot know because it is not their way to seek interaction.

reply to post by Akragon


What change did he truly bring though? Today is even more brutal than 2,000 or 3,000 years ago when and before Jesus was here. We have more genocide today than ever before, more war than ever before, and more corruption than ever before. Absolutely nothing has changed in my opinion, and if it has it has not been for the better. If Jesus really did change anything, what is it that he changed?

Yes, there most certainly were people who knew God before Jesus was born in my opinion, Jesus is not really all THAT special. Yes, his message is special, but he was not the first to ever teach the things he taught. There were many people who taught to love others as yourself, even the OT god said that before Jesus did.

Society has created a cult of personality around Jesus, making him out to be something more than he really was. Jesus is no more special and has brought no more change than anyone else ever has. If he truly changed anything we wouldn't be on the brink of destruction and war today.

intrptr
reply to post by benrl

 

Would I want to kill someone that harms my Child? Damn right, does that make me better no.

So you are saying would kill them if you got the chance? I'm not trying to be facetious just understand where you're coming from.

If you hate the criminal he's won your heart. He has made you into a version of himself. If you hate him back you become like him inside. Even if you don't kill anyone.

No, I said again, would Want to. excuse me if that doesn't seem purposefully obtuse on your part.

The rest is drivel, we are human, we feel.

We are allowed to based on the theology the point of this OP is discussing.

What the theology under discussion does not allow, is Murder, meditated calculated planned murder.

Now if you want to claim that Anger, destroys you, yea it does.

Is it wrong, yes, and should you strive to be better than it and forgive if you are a believer of the theology this op is supposed to be about?

YES.


Its really not hard to grasp, Yes you can be human and have feelings, but no you don't act on them.

The theology in the Bible is clear on these matters.

People just like to dance all around them for some reason.

ketsuko
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Too often, we show compassion to the unrepentant. If someone embraces their sin, or evil, if you will, it can be folly to show too much compassion. You become an enabler not someone who actually helps them turn away. Sometimes, love isn't the soft and squishy emotion most people think it is.

For example, if you have a family member who is a hard core addict, continuing to embrace them no matter how bad their behavior often only enables them in their addiction. The more compassionate and, yes, more loving act is to turn your back on them, letting them know they must choose either their addiction or their family.

So many people these days refuse to see that love can also be stern and corrective.

Compassion doesn't mean enable and ignore. Such an example you gave directly effects my family actually. Without going into detail, I do believe that someone like that has already chosen..but maybe not for all time. While they do the act, they should be put away, but when wanting help, that's when you help
Someone may be an addict when they are behaving like one, and should then be treated as such and put away from people they can damage, or left to their own devices. hug em, but don't let em borrow your car kind of thing
Just saying that generally speaking, a person who screws up..multiple times even, should be encouraged to take a new path verses strictly berated on the previous mistakes and screw-ups they did initially. Tearing down is easy..its building up that shows the humanity.
But don't be stupid about it either...fool me once, shame on you kind of thing.

SaturnFX

Just saying that generally speaking, a person who screws up..multiple times even, should be encouraged to take a new path verses strictly berated on the previous mistakes and screw-ups they did initially. Tearing down is easy..its building up that shows the humanity.
But don't be stupid about it either...fool me once, shame on you kind of thing.

As this is a thread on Christian theology...

Repentance, should never be turned away, period.

False repentance, needs to be watched for.

Paul gives guidelines for what a community of Christians Could do with someone who is in error(not commands).

But ultimately, its the original argument rephrased, Law vs Grace.

Which takes discernment, THE Only time a Christian is called to judge, is to judge a brother who is in error.

It goes back to a larger theological issue, but is still essentially the same.

Ultimately in such cases it takes fruit, to prove repentance and be accepted back in the community as a whole, NOT to cause it, but as an outward sign to other believers that person is truly repentant.

As from a theological perspective, what is worse, reproving an unrepentant member, or letting them go on their way in their error, because you didn't wana make them feel bad.

There is a lot in Christianity in general, that takes the larger community over the individual needs as more important, it is a very pragmatic and practical world view.

Sometimes, a part goes bad in the body, and it needs to be removed.

reply to post by ketsuko

Whether or not they all perfectly forgave the murderer we cannot know because it is not their way to seek interaction.

Compared to other recent school shootings and what they blew up into? I give them a 10+. Especially forgiving the family and giving up portion of the donation they received to them. I'd call that a big interaction.

Can't says I blame them much for not wanting to interact with the "outside world", either.

reply to post by benrl

The rest is drivel…

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

Society has created a cult of personality around Jesus, making him out to be something more than he really was. Jesus is no more special and has brought no more change than anyone else ever has. If he truly changed anything we wouldn't be on the brink of destruction and war today.

edit on 4/5/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I agree. Put the person on a pedestal and tell him he is very special even so special that you cannot really compare to him and match him and therefore not follow Jesus to try to be as close to the thing Jesus is trying to be.

The Jesus described by the bible was not in my views a perfection of what a blessed ONE is and shows his own struggle with being human in an imperfect world with people who are not ready to receive. He was good enough for that time and he did what he was supposed to do and for that I am grateful. To bad many of the ones that came afterwards where not listened to either just like Jesus was but this time with a Jesus dogma contradicting the ones god sent to evolve humanity further. I think a little Awolnation is suitable.

Akragon
reply to post by arpgme

 

I'll play...

"Everyone is a child of God"

Wrong. Only those who live through The Holy Spirit is a child of God. Everyone else belongs to The World and The Ruler of This World.

Wrong...

Not a new age belief... It came directly from Jesus who was quoting Psalms...


Ye are gods, and children of the most high...

Oh yes but what about the rest of it. The part that really made them mad to the point they wanted to kill Him. Most think it was because He said HE was the Son of God as in other place. But here what pisses them off is the total picture that He brings to mind......the rest of that passage...He was likening them to fallen angels.

"ye are gods and children of the most high....(the rest of it)....BUT YOU SHALL DIE LIKE MEN AND FALL LIKE ONE OF THE PRINCES".

In essence their "theos" amounted to no more saving power than the fallen angles.

The whole passage here and hardly a flattering of mans god qualities. In fact these people here that are being discussed are no more sons of god than the fallen sons of God. This passage is an indictment of the fallen nature of man as the same as the nature of fallen angles.

Psalm 82

A psalm of Asaph.

God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:
“How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”

Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance


Again this is nothing less than a condemnation. That's why they sought to take Him after HE said it.

edit on 5-4-2014 by Logarock because: n

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

What change did he truly bring though? Today is even more brutal than 2,000 or 3,000 years ago when and before Jesus was here. We have more genocide today than ever before, more war than ever before, and more corruption than ever before. Absolutely nothing has changed in my opinion, and if it has it has not been for the better. If Jesus really did change anything, what is it that he changed?

Yes, there most certainly were people who knew God before Jesus was born in my opinion, Jesus is not really all THAT special. Yes, his message is special, but he was not the first to ever teach the things he taught. There were many people who taught to love others as yourself, even the OT god said that before Jesus did.

Society has created a cult of personality around Jesus, making him out to be something more than he really was. Jesus is no more special and has brought no more change than anyone else ever has. If he truly changed anything we wouldn't be on the brink of destruction and war today.

edit on 4/5/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

That is a good point, though today we have wars on a much grander scale... and people kill from a distance rather then having at each other....

What change did he bring?

Mercy... He taught a Mercful forgiving Father of creation. Unlike the tyrant of the OT...

Sure the OT says love your neighbours, but who was the Neighbour in that time? Others of the same belief system... essentially other Hebrews... But who was your neighbour according to Jesus? Most would be surprised to find out that it wasn't everyone, it was those who show mercy to others...

But we also find things that are unheard of in the OT... for example... Loving your enemies? We also find out that God is kind to the evil and the good alike...

With a little searching one can find that everyone goes to the afterlife... and we don't actually have to worry about eating something that might piss God off... Or even worry about what is to come tomorrow...

The very core of his teaching is love and knowing God loves us... and we screw up!! All of us! But we're not damned because of our mistakes... in fact we will be forgiven IF we do likewise towards others...

Jesus brought mercy and forgiveness into the world... That's what he changed

reply to post by Logarock

Oh yes but what about the rest of it. The part that really made them mad to the point they wanted to kill Him. Most think it was because He said HE was the Son of God as in other place. But here what pisses them off is the total picture that He brings to mind......the rest of that passage...He was likening them to fallen angels.

"ye are gods and children of the most high....(the rest of it)....BUT YOU SHALL DIE LIKE MEN AND FALL LIKE ONE OF THE PRINCES".

In essence their "theos" amounted to no more saving power than the fallen angles.

The whole passage here and hardly a flattering of mans god qualities. In fact these people here that are being discussed are no more sons of god than the fallen sons of God. This passage is an indictment of the fallen nature of man as the same as the nature of fallen angles.

Quite true... but still children of God none the less... fallen or otherwise

Though he was still executed for blasphemy...

3NL1GHT3N3D1


I will agree with you on one point though, the true God is not the God of this world, we have a counterfeit god that requires worship and obedience otherwise you're punished with hellfire or eternal separation. God requires nothing because he already has everything and IS everything in my opinion.

Well many would hope so for obvious reasons. But these ideas of yours aren't coming from God. Certainly to the chagrin and consternation of many He certainly does require worship and obedience. Jesus backs this up in at least a hundred cases.

First, enough of that old, ancient even, excuse; if the king, emperor, President, etc, only knew about .......! Either you are omni-everything or not. If you are, you must accept responsibility. If you claim otherwise concerning culpability, you ain't nothing.
Second, I prefer President Jefferson's Bible, only the quotes attributed to Jesus. The rest of the New Testament, after Matthew, Mark, and Luke is Pauline Doctrine. Paul being a Hellenic Jew, and Roman citizen.
Third, repeatedly Jesus made it clear. Listen to the still, soft voice within you. Remember the widow and her two copper coins versus the merchant and his bags of gold, and who, Jesus said, the audience and claim to attention were all the reward to be had for the donation to the temple treasury.
Lastly, stop using Gnostic as a dirty word. To be Gnostic is to seek knowledge, to learn and think. Activities actively discouraged by the early church and leaders. Remember, who called the first, official conference of "christian" leaders to decide what was "Gospel" and what was not. It would be hard to tell the Emperor, while sleeping and eating on his dime, protected by his army, that you did not like his choices of "authentic" gospel. Same goes for the King James translation.