Abortion is a gift from God

I am trying to understand both her and the people who listened to her.

Abortion is for me equivalent with murder. Been there very recently, know how the parent feels like and honestly i cannot think anything different. You, who decide about the abortion, had your chance to live your life. Why shouldn't that baby live too???

So, our society dislikes (correctly!) the murderers and put them in jail. On the other hand, narrow-minded people like she and people who attended her lecture, people who applause abortion and name its providers "heroes" are not considered as murderers.

Well, this is simply paranoid! This is also racism towards people with genetical problems, this is also nazism. As most logical people on the planet ( including myself ), spit racism and nazism and we do not tolerate them ( correctly! ), why should we tolerate ideas like hers???

Yes to the freedom of speech, but a huge NO on paranoid, hateful towards humanism ideas!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Yep. And a morality that also appears to have issues with addressing the real root causes of the need for abortions, such as no education about or access to birth control.

If all the energy put into attacking people in a bad situation and Planned Parenthood on false pretenses and posting their horrific pictures and arguing about God's will were put into that maybe there wouldn't be such a bad situation.

There seems to be a very large communication gap laced with unwillingness and hypocrisy here. I don't know how we can ever get past this.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

The premise of this thread was that we should not discuss the merits of abortion, but rather the merits of utilizing God as a tool for agenda.

I argue that in this case, you cannot really separate the two. As abortion is a morality issue, which resides firmly in the realm of religion for the most part.

I just didn't want this being a typical abortion thread.

We have those.

Now we see proponents using God as a selling point for abortion.

I see that as deperation.

beezzer

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

The premise of this thread was that we should not discuss the merits of abortion, but rather the merits of utilizing God as a tool for agenda.

I argue that in this case, you cannot really separate the two. As abortion is a morality issue, which resides firmly in the realm of religion for the most part.

I just didn't want this being a typical abortion thread.

We have those.

Now we see proponents using God as a selling point for abortion.

I see that as deperation.

agreed.

I am more of the "let people choose....so its easier to identify the scumbags of the world" camp.

reply to post by beezzer


Did I ever have a mouthful for you before I read the rest of that OP beyond the title lol.

I may be pro reproductive rights for both genders, but an abortion certainly isn't a gift.

People be trippin'

-Tenth

beezzer
Now we see proponents using God as a selling point for abortion.

I see that as deperation.

All I see is someone that gave an anti-abortion slogan a 180º.

Although, it could also be a reminder that abortion is a god send to those women who might need one because of special circumstances.

Anyone have any comment from the artist?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Yes, we are given free will.

However, there are some rules. One of those is that we shall not murder.

This is where, for some, it gets tricky.

I consider abortion, at any term, for any reason to be murder. So having said that; I do not believe that abortion is a God-given right. In fact, it very much goes against one of God's few laws.

Christian or not, murder is murder. Pretty simple to me.

This argument and discussion isn't new..it raises its head every few years so people feel they are 'doing something' to relieve a weight of conscience upon them whose source they cant otherwise identify or relieve except in expressing their outrage under cover of moral righteousness. Most people I see doing this, seem to have no comprehension of what morality even is. Many Pro life and Pro choice arguments are being based on blanket assumption, blanket capacity views, blanket generalizations, and blatantly ignorant personal judgements projected into the world. They are not sound evidence of the truth of what *actually* is important to consider in this debate and as arguments go, they aren't very useful.

This is a snippet of something I wrote years ago on the issue and today its still stands for me as 'my truth' on this issue..whatever yours is, that's yours and I choose to respect it as yours, and your right to have, even if I dont respect the view.




original thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Right Action (morality) is primarily an internal calculation based on factors that pertain to an individuals own conscience; its not in law or in opinion and that conscience, to me, is sacrosanct. So you can and have every right to share your view and say " for me xyz is morally wrong' but you cannot just stand there and say that from a blanket perspective ' it is morally wrong for all people'....you are not God..and you do not have that right.

As a person of conscience, I choose not to attach my personal morality to a shared social or religious morality, despite sharing many values with people and with religious beliefs. Morality itself, is not a religious concept...it is a spiritual concept but even more so, it is a human process I choose to claim and nurture within myself based on my own experiences and personal truth.

If you have made a choice to align yourself to a religious or socially accepted and communally morality, then you have made that choice, one you must own personally and be accountable for, and you cannot decide the morality you have adopted is one or a choice all people must make or adopt, nor is it one that relates to all people...only you as you made the choice.

I personally believe a woman's bodily rights outweigh any extra personal morality. I know why I believe this, and what for..I know too I have no right to impose that view onto anyone, no more than they have to impose their views onto me. If you dont like this woman's presentation or her views then dont read them, ignore her and move on. The more you inflate her even in the negative the more likely her views will be spread or be given legitimacy. If you DON'T want that to happen..then walk away...dont buy.

Ro

Stormdancer777
In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question before us here: When does human life begin?

The debate overall isn't when life begins. Life is not special (ask your cheeseburger).
The debate is, when does a human lifeform become a person, when does it end.
We generally have an idea of when a person ends..when the brain dies

I suggest also that the same argument is when a person begins...when the brain starts. This seems to be a nice logical principle to stand on.

Before, it is potential, after it is rememberance...but just as I believe in euthanasia (when there is no possible chance of them recovering), I also see anything before a developed brain as not yet a person...

This is a matter on principle logic.
Yes, at conception, chemical reactions fire off, cells start replicating, etc..the program is initiated..but like a countdown to a rocket, your not in space yet..just preparing for it.

westcoast
One of those is that we shall not murder.

Murdering a person is wrong, I agree.

I have gone a step further and for myself resolved what a person is.
killing life is not a issue..murdering a person is.

~Lucidity
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Yep. And a morality that also appears to have issues with addressing the real root causes of the need for abortions, such as no education about or access to birth control.

If all the energy put into attacking people in a bad situation and Planned Parenthood on false pretenses and posting their horrific pictures and arguing about God's will were put into that maybe there wouldn't be such a bad situation.

There seems to be a very large communication gap laced with unwillingness and hypocrisy here. I don't know how we can ever get past this.

edit on 4/5/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry, I don't buy ANY of those arguments. Maybe in a third-world country, but not here in the states.

No access to birth control leads to abortions?

In my experience, the most common reason for abortion is that it just isn't 'convenient'. ANY woman can go to a planned parenthood and have access. Or how about the timing method (almost as effective as the pill) or *gasp* abstinence?

There are all sorts of choices out there. There are all kinds of programs and access to them for anyone bothering to take the time and energy to look into it. However, it seems so much more 'convenient' to just act out their free 'will' and 'choice' to abort the unwanted burden.

Our societies stance on abortion is sickening, as is the attitudes that make up the excuses to support it.

Now religion is being twisted around to do the same? How about people just grow up and start taking responsibility for their actions instead of making all these excuses? What? That's too hard? Well tough.

reply to post by SaturnFX



If your assumption is correct (and it's a reasonable assumption) then where do you stand on abortions after 3 months? Wouldn't it then be considered murder? If so, and say this were the new and generally understood standard on abortions brought to us by science...then why would anyone be for supporting someones right to "choose" to murder the baby after 3 months? We don't need religion or God etc to realize this, just a conscience. Right now, the pro-choice crowd doesn't even have a set standard, it's just ok to "choose" no matter what.

I ask this question because to me, this is common sense and it should be as well for every living human being. At what point do people say "enough is enough, let's stop giving the excuses for murder", because you know what? At some point, abortion is murder no matter how many times people try to justify it and put candy coatings on it.

I do agree with the OP, using religion as means to promote a stance one way or another is ridiculous. Why can't people just use common sense and leave God out of it?

If you don't want an abortion, don't get one.

Manage your own life, and leave it to others to manage theirs.

How is that complicated?

SaturnFX

westcoast
One of those is that we shall not murder.

Murdering a person is wrong, I agree.

I have gone a step further and for myself resolved what a person is.
killing life is not a issue..murdering a person is.

I came to that same conclusion a short time ago, as far as what would make a good argument with an intelligent, scientific-minded person over when a life starts.

That would mean that life starts at around six weeks in. I will double check that, but I believe it is around then that the brain starts to have electrical activity.

For me, it is as soon as there is growth, for that is really the beginning a living organism. Intelligent life, yes, when the brain becomes active. Either way, thousands of babies, and intelligent life-forms are killed monthly.

Gryphon66
If you don't want an abortion, don't get one.

Manage your own life, and leave it to others to manage theirs.

How is that complicated?

Same with art. Don't like it, don't look at it or buy it. I still have nightmares about some of Picasso's paintings I've seen.

Gryphon66
If you don't want an abortion, don't get one.

Manage your own life, and leave it to others to manage theirs.

How is that complicated?

Do you feel the same way about the person trying to break into your house and murder you? Just let them live their own life? Just let you manage your own and don't help you?

You're right. It's NOT complicated.

reply to post by beezzer

Abortion is a gift from God? I cant help but wonder, if that person could go back in time, would they have preferred their mother had an abortion instead of giving them life? The most precious gift God can give you is life, one would think it is an insult to give it back unopened. Of course there are always other considerations such as rape and a health risk to the mother, but to freely have unprotected sex when contraception is easily and readily available to me is a total lack of moral ethics if you just want to rely on an abortion. It is not my duty to judge, God will do that, but I can have an opinion....maybe God will punish me for my view.

reply to post by westcoast

They're not arguments.

If life begins at conception, thousands of "babies" are "killed" by completely natural processes.

I've yet to see an argument against that fact.

westcoast

Gryphon66
If you don't want an abortion, don't get one.

Manage your own life, and leave it to others to manage theirs.

How is that complicated?

Do you feel the same way about the person trying to break into your house and murder you? Just let them live their own life? Just let you manage your own and don't help you?

You're right. It's NOT complicated.

The person breaking into my house is causing me harm.

If I have an abortion, how is that causing you harm?