Abortion is a gift from God

reply to post by beezzer


it is what it is. I don't think it is a gift or a curse.

god has always been synonymous with the word 'unknown'; anything that is outside of our understanding becomes 'god'.

'god' did it etc.

Choice is a gift from god. Having a child is supposed to be a gift and a treasure not a curse. If you are in a place where it is a curse you should not have it. That soul deserves better than to have a crappy time on earth. This place is closer to a true hell experience than most souls understand blinded to believe it is better than it is.

If people where pro life then they would make sure every soul have a good experience by doing what Jesus said and not just judging emotionally without trying to fix the problems that make having the baby a curse instead of a treasure.

Religions is mocked because it is an idol of the teaching it says it follows.

Freedom of speech. If the WBC can get away with it, so can she. The students can choose whether or not to invest, and they have a right to know all the angles if they want to.

ETA: "Freedman"? Stupid phone.

reply to post by beezzer


If you believe the bible is the word of God I don't see your problem here.
It's clearly written that *ALL* things come from God..*ALL* things go back to God.

That's kind of absolute there..no jimmy room.....and it specifically doesn't say ' except if you are an abortion doctor or have had an abortion' and 'all' would by definition, include any cells or fetus aborted from a woman's body.

What's more, it is written we are created in the image of God...this 'we' is inclusive and again does not say ' except if you are an abortion doctor or have had an abortion'.

If we are/have been made in Gods image than ALL that we do is a reflection of the godhead, *ALL* of what we do as humans - not just our nice bits or our morals, moralizing and holy prayers - is therefore a reflection of God and I hold that exercising choice, including a choice to abort, *is* in this context, "a gift from God" as I see choice and the capacity to choose as an essential power we are given by this Godhead.

In ancient times they used a gather of herbs as an abortion aid..midwives would hand the safest most effective recipes down to their students and so abortion practices were a medical issue not a moral one..and about providing knowledge and a constancy of help to women without judgment, not the moral abuses heaped upon a woman seeking aid today. A woman's right to her own mind and body was upheld above all else...women were expected to know their needs their cycles and the needs of their families and communities and to take responsibility for unwanted pregnancy. This was an accepted part of Womanhood. This respect socially, of a females innate right to her own body and conscience, her humanity and her duty to community wider, has only ever been interrupted by periods of intense theocracy...where, like now really, extra personal moral judgment and abuses combine with religious led control and become predominant...when it happens as its happening now..a woman's innate and sacred right to her own self determination is stolen by 'society'...as a result females at large regress socially from being equally empowered human beings, to being treated as brood mares and very little more than dogs.

Rosha

re Pro CHOICE
religious people have every right to choose to worship as they choose
or not
is the right to dictate to others included in that right to worship?

how about the right of American christian gun owners to carry a gun and shoot someone they deem is a threat...
and whom might not be... ( like Iraq, Iran, syria, libya, etc...protestants, catholics, russian christians...palistinians)
what is that but retroactive abortion?

is it blessed be the peace makers
or
kill em all and let god sort them out?

then of course after not aborting babies some get to live in trailer parks
where they keep getting wiped out by acts of god...
go figure

I tend to believe its a gift from God myself, to have that choice and freedom, in the first trimester, the beginning of a pregnancy.

If its allowed at later stages, its a ritual sacrifice of a baby to demons, which is why the courts allow it.

God/Creator/Higher Self, the Good Family, isn't really fundamental religions. Love is Good and does not harm anyone. But only Loves and Helps.

I'd really like to know why this thread was started, because it seems a little hypocritical to me, no offense. I mean, the OP is a known ardent supporter of free speech - ALL free speech. And if I'm not mistaken, the OP has also submitted many posts against the "PC Police". If free speech is great no matter what it is, and no one should be screaming "I'm offended!" by statements that aren't PC, what exactly is the problem here that caused this thread to be started? Just askin'

Premises

1. Life begins at conception.
2. God has personally designed all natural processes and they function according to His perfect will.

Reference

3. Multiple studies have demonstrated that the rate of spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is between 25 and 50%. The rate averages around 31% when statistics include women who know and who do not know that they are pregnant. NIH Study - Incident of early loss of pregnancy(Another Study)(Another Study)

Conclusion

God has designed a natural process whereby a considerable percentage of fertilized eggs will be spontaneously aborted.

Which could be stated as "Abortion is a gift from God."

Gryphon66
Premises

1. Life begins at conception.
2. God has personally designed all natural processes and they function according to His perfect will.

Reference

3. Multiple studies have demonstrated that the rate of spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is between 25 and 50%. The rate averages around 31% when statistics include women who know and who do not know that they are pregnant. NIH Study - Incident of early loss of pregnancy(Another Study)(Another Study)

Conclusion

God has designed a natural process whereby a considerable percentage of fertilized eggs will be spontaneously aborted.

Which could be stated as "Abortion is a gift from God."

Or, as some will argue, a divine punishment. Yes, spontaneous abortion is deemed a fitting consequence of upsetting a loving and benevolent deity. Pfft.

reply to post by beezzer


Hey Beeez.

Get over it.

kaylaluv
I'd really like to know why this thread was started, because it seems a little hypocritical to me, no offense. I mean, the OP is a known ardent supporter of free speech - ALL free speech. And if I'm not mistaken, the OP has also submitted many posts against the "PC Police". If free speech is great no matter what it is, and no one should be screaming "I'm offended!" by statements that aren't PC, what exactly is the problem here that caused this thread to be started? Just askin'

I don't have to freedom to dislike what she said?

Apologies if you think free speech is just parroting what you agree with.

RomeByFire
reply to post by beezzer

 

Hey Beeez.

Get over it.

LOLZ

Worth a star.

Good zinger!

Having abortions, OK, but celebrating them is too much for me. When did "accepting abortion" turn into "advertising for abortion"? When did abortion turn into something to feel proud of? I must have missed the transition to the next phase of cultural transformation. This is only one step removed from enjoying abortion as a leisure activity.

beezzer
We know she isn’t referring to the God of the Bible. Still, the mockery grates on me. It’s awful enough to defend “choice,” but to invoke the Creator and call killing vulnerable and voiceless children a gift from that Creator?

You know I dig Christians and I find many iterations of it to have a beautiful message. However, pretending that the Christian god has issues with abortion just doesn't make sense to me. I personally find abortion abhorrent (though I'm still pro-choice because making it illegal isn't the answer) which is why I don't stand with the Christian god on this issue. He seems cool with it and I don't.

- Here is a prayer to the Christian god to abort a baby:

Hosea 9:14
New International Version (NIV)
14 Give them, Lord—
what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.

- Here is a priest acting as an abortion provider:

Numbers 5:16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

- I'm sure killing every woman but the virgins killed plenty of babies. In fact, I'm thinking that was the aim here:

Numbers 31:15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

- Wow...

Hosea 13:16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.”

- More sanctioned butchering of pregnant women:

2 Kings 15:At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.

- His commands for baby-killing doesn't stop at people; he kills animal babies, too:

1 Samuel 15:3 - Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

- This one's a little personal to me. The imagery alone is enough to make a person insane:

Psalm 137:8 - Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

So when a person says that abortion is "anti-Christian", it's only because that person hasn't read enough of the bible. And if their response is "Well he was killing the unrighteous" that doesn't fly, either. The Christian god has said repeatedly that no human is worthy nor righteous.

Sorry to sound so combative but this is one of my biggest pet peeves.

SaturnFX

FriedBabelBroccoli

SaturnFX
Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

Okay . . . is this how you view your own children?

I think your answer to that is really the answer to your questions in this thread.

-FBB

edit on 5-4-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

No
I am not religious. Life is precious because its life, not because God made it..but because it exists.

Oh, I see. So why do you support abortion? Life is precious because it's life ... but you're fine with any woman just deep-sixing it because it's inconvenient?

I find your questions a poor attempt to trap a person.

Babies go where they go, but God is the one who decides when we should go. It's not our place to decide that. I'm not fine with a woman deciding to have an abortion because the baby is merely inconvenient because that's not her choice to make. If having a child was or would be inconvenient ... maybe she shouldn't have been having sex? That would have prevented the whole issue to begin with, and as the wife of one adopted son and the aunt of two adopted nephews, there are other ways of dealing with an inconvenient pregnancy than to punish the child by "sending it to Heaven" for your indiscretion. Abortion is not and never should be considered birth control.

We can talk about other situations where the mother's life is in danger or instances of rape, but those are very tiny cases against the much larger percentage of cases where someone was indiscreet in her behavior. Even if you're on birth control, you still shouldn't be having sex unless you are prepared to deal with the reality that you may get pregnant.

beezzer

I don't have to freedom to dislike what she said?

Apologies if you think free speech is just parroting what you agree with.

Of course you have that freedom, buy why start a whole thread on it? What was it you hoped to achieve by starting this thread?

You make snarky comments about female celebrities who are offended by those who discourage young girl leaders (the"Ban Bossy" Campaign), yet you are offended by some random woman's opinion on God/religion/abortions? We all get offended by something, don't we? Even those who make fun of people who get offended.

ketsuko

SaturnFX

FriedBabelBroccoli

SaturnFX
Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

Okay . . . is this how you view your own children?

I think your answer to that is really the answer to your questions in this thread.

-FBB

edit on 5-4-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

No
I am not religious. Life is precious because its life, not because God made it..but because it exists.

Oh, I see. So why do you support abortion? Life is precious because it's life ... but you're fine with any woman just deep-sixing it because it's inconvenient?

I don't support abortions (nor condemn it). I support the choice up to 3 months within the pregnancy to do as they choose. To me, people are what is to be protected, and a person to me is thought...once brain activity starts, it stops becoming a potential and becomes a person. After 3 months, then only in emeregencys.
I say 3 months because that is the earliest possible stage where brain activity can theoretically start...so it seems like a good watermark.

I find your questions a poor attempt to trap a person.

I find your analysis of my position simply poor.

reply to post by SaturnFX


If your neutral about it then why won't you hush about it?

I watched you last night go on and on and on. I come back today and more of the same.

Doesn't make sense to be so passionate. About nothing?

Cuervo
pretending that the Christian god has issues with abortion just doesn't make sense to me.

The biblical God simply doesn't give a frak about life...what it cares about is the spiritual connection, not our physical lives.

Its mankind that must decide to promote life and people..its up to us.

These are the people that think God flooded the earth, killing almost everyone..as if there was no actually born babies, pregnant mothers, etc...

That's why I was trying to point out religious defense of their stance is pretty crazy given the religion to begin with. This is our deal. no supreme authority here, so we should base any debate in regards to what we the people want in life...what qualifies as a person, etc...and since religion is clearly not a good benchmark for such discussions, then science must be.

When is a person a person...

TiedDestructor
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

If your neutral about it then why won't you hush about it?

I watched you last night go on and on and on. I come back today and more of the same.

Doesn't make sense to be so passionate. About nothing?

It wouldn't make sense to you. Of this I have no doubt.

And no. I won't shut up.

I am neutral about the abortion issue. I would have to judge each case individually, and I don't have time for that. For me, it is generally a no-go if I have a say for the people around me. That's because I know anyone within my circle will be provided for. have love, a home, things, education, and good opportunity...that's my situation. my situation is not everyones.

I am passionate about choice though.