Abortion is a gift from God

madmac5150
Beeze...

In my heart I know this... one day the creator or spaghetti-monster or whatever will ask us how we feel about abortion... that answer will decide our individual fates. It brings me to tears...

Truth.

Perhaps this is a test that some will ultimately fail.

But will he look at us and say, "Did you do enough to stop it?"

Will he say, "This was not a gift but a challenge to humanity. A challenge that each and every one of you failed."

Opinions, even if embarrassingly cringe-worthy, are like bums - every body has one.

Funny though - by her logic, her mum should have aborted her, still.........

reply to post by beezzer


Thank you for the appropo question. This is exactly what I'm getting at.

The definition of murder can be defined by two schools of thought - and only the individual can define it for him/herself based on his/her convictions (religion or science).

So, you are correct in your interpretation of abortion being wrong, as it is defined by your moral convictions.

So, is the person who has no moral convictions - who has the right to judge him/her?

As an example, consider the person who lived 4000 years ago. How was that person supposed to approach abortion? There were likely two choices:

1. Through moral choices based on his/her interpretation of a higher being.
2. Through scientific choices, based on what is efficient for the promulgation of the species.

I personally don't believe either answer is wrong, but to judge all humans under one condition is, perhaps, a disservice.

Respectfully,

Folks, people, transgender llama's, thank you for all your posts and replies.

In keeping with a kinder more tolerant beez, I am retiring for the evening, pouring myself another fine single malt, and watching a splendid movie (Odd Thomas).

I thank you for your energy and thoughts.

Any issues or questions will be answered some time soon. Everyone knows what a wordy bastard I am.

Have a pleasant evening.

Kindest regards,

beez

This is why this thread is a joke:

1) Not a single damn person has answered my on topic questions..not a one to this point. consider that. ATS, a place where we are all screaming the motto "deny ignorance", yet not a one of you answered the questions that are required to be answered before you even start discussing morality in the subject.

2) ATS mindset generally is about questioning authority. the higher the authority, the more questioning comes into play...a manager at a store, questioned, a cop, moreso, a potus, endless...yet for some reason, the highest authority (the people whom wrote the bible a couple thousand years ago) cannot be questioned, nor even the people whom willy nilly interpret it different....Again, for shame for being so cowardly that you won't even answer a question..because you know the answers would suddenly make the whole topic make no sense, or at least make things a bit less black and white.

Being disingenuous is a lie to yourself.

SaturnFX
This is why this thread is a joke:

1) Not a single damn person has answered my on topic questions..not a one to this point. consider that. ATS, a place where we are all screaming the motto "deny ignorance", yet not a one of you answered the questions that are required to be answered before you even start discussing morality in the subject.

2) ATS mindset generally is about questioning authority. the higher the authority, the more questioning comes into play...a manager at a store, questioned, a cop, moreso, a potus, endless...yet for some reason, the highest authority (the people whom wrote the bible a couple thousand years ago) cannot be questioned, nor even the people whom willy nilly interpret it different....Again, for shame for being so cowardly that you won't even answer a question..because you know the answers would suddenly make the whole topic make no sense, or at least make things a bit less black and white.

Being disingenuous is a lie to yourself.

Funny as that is how you began your posts in this thread.

--quick add for clarification-
I find the term pro-abortion to be intentionally offensive without being a proper term, I feel the same way about people on the other side of the fence using the term anti-choice. Both labels are improper use and are trying to get emotional responses moreso than reflect the actual position of the other side. (I am not above it. I have used the term anti-choice in debates(including this one, see the first line)..it is a touchy subject and people fly off into irrational and offensive tirades..although I later regret using the term as I know its disingenuous)

You declared this thread a "witch hunt" and refuse to demonstrate how such is the case. The OP brought to attention a university using public funds to celebrate a contentious practice by using obvious religious overtones.

Anyhow, being honest here..answer the questions I posed with clear thought and not reactionary bile. Who knows, you may find something out about yourself in the process. (heh, and I got a bridge to sell ya)

Maybe you should hit the drawing board and come back with a fully formed thought as currently you are attempting to engage in a running skirmish with other members of this thread. Maybe they are not answering you because this thread is in the social issues not the religious one. Your attempts at debating morality of the Bible have little to do with the allocation of tax payer money to support . . . whatever it is that this woman is doing.

-FBB

SaturnFX

2) ATS mindset generally is about questioning authority. the higher the authority, the more questioning comes into play...a manager at a store, questioned, a cop, moreso, a potus, endless...yet for some reason, the highest authority (the people whom wrote the bible a couple thousand years ago) cannot be questioned, nor even the people whom willy nilly interpret it different....

Do you question science? In this society, there is no greater authority (whether people realize it or not, which is what makes it even more powerful) than the philosophy of material reductionism. Yet I'm dismissed all the time for suggesting that the scientific paradigm is a cancer of humanity. It's almost... blasphemous to do so in our culture.

I think we're a little off-topic, so suffice it to say that if you're going to criticize people for not questioning authority (that is, the authorities you want them to question), you should understand that the paradigm which begs you to question authority is, in the first place, a form of authority that you're not questioning.

SaturnFX
This is why this thread is a joke:

1) Not a single damn person has answered my on topic questions..not a one to this point. consider that. ATS, a place where we are all screaming the motto "deny ignorance", yet not a one of you answered the questions that are required to be answered before you even start discussing morality in the subject.

2) ATS mindset generally is about questioning authority. the higher the authority, the more questioning comes into play...a manager at a store, questioned, a cop, moreso, a potus, endless...yet for some reason, the highest authority (the people whom wrote the bible a couple thousand years ago) cannot be questioned, nor even the people whom willy nilly interpret it different....Again, for shame for being so cowardly that you won't even answer a question..because you know the answers would suddenly make the whole topic make no sense, or at least make things a bit less black and white.

Being disingenuous is a lie to yourself.

My lord. I will answer your three questions, will I be allowed to cross the bridge after?

What were they again?

Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

simple really
Now, once they are born, they start sinning and need to live long enough to redeem for their sins..murdering someone actually alive denies them their chance at salvation.

You can interpret my spiritual beliefs however you want...

1. Are babies sent to hell? Not sure. I'm not sure who gets sent to hell and who doesn't. I'm not sure that hell is even real. I do know that I agree with Beez that this woman is offensive and antagonistic.

2. Is heaven a better place than earth? Assuming heaven is a real place, I would certainly hope so. However, I don't think anybody is truly certain what comes after life. So what's the point of this question?


Not sure what heaven or hell have to do with robbing something of life. One can only assume the level of life's divinity. I feel like there are lots of assumptions going around on things that are highly unknown. And your questions are based on assumptions of character.

People don't have to follow Christianity to be offended by this woman. I'll go ahead and give you my spiritual beliefs, because there is no need to beat around bushes. I am highly agnostic. I don't need a book telling me "Abortion is wrong" for me to feel that abortion is wrong.

Next question?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Some have their hearts set on berating others. When we don't comply... explodes.

Make me giggle.

I'm 50/50 on abortion. I think it's the mother's right to decide whether to abort or not. You have to think about is this child going to be raised properly, was she raped or sexually abused. Yes, no undorn child deserves to be aborted but what if they can't be raised monetarily or emotionally? Should we put a child through this? What about adoption? I know my girlfriend and I can't have kids and with that being said, if I had the $ money to adopt I would. Just my thoughts being 50/50 on that. I thing what it comes down to is what the woman wants. We are all for women's rights right? Dunno about you but I def don't want a baby coming out my dick.

SaturnFX
This is why this thread is a joke:

1) Not a single damn person has answered my on topic questions..not a one to this point. consider that. ATS, a place where we are all screaming the motto "deny ignorance", yet not a one of you answered the questions that are required to be answered before you even start discussing morality in the subject.

2) ATS mindset generally is about questioning authority. the higher the authority, the more questioning comes into play...a manager at a store, questioned, a cop, moreso, a potus, endless...yet for some reason, the highest authority (the people whom wrote the bible a couple thousand years ago) cannot be questioned, nor even the people whom willy nilly interpret it different....Again, for shame for being so cowardly that you won't even answer a question..because you know the answers would suddenly make the whole topic make no sense, or at least make things a bit less black and white.

Being disingenuous is a lie to yourself.

What's your question?

please be blunt.

I despise obtuseness.

reply to post by introV


Thanks for the response.
To find something disrespectful to a religion to begin with (as this thread is about), you have to establish what the disrespect is. it is the perceived murdering of a innocent unborn soul.
Hense why I was trying to first figure out why such a thing would be considered bad from a religious view...its not like according to the religion, the baby in question is doomed to eternal damnation...so, I was establishing why in general from the point of the threads subject what the actual objection is...

You may cross the bridge.


I would actually think overall an atheist would have bigger issues with abortion...not to say atheists are united on the concept of a afterlife, but generally speaking, they don't believe in one...or rather, they focus in on the life we do have, and to deny life to a potential seems to cheapen life...that's how I look at it. not a sin, just a shame. At least from that standpoint, a actual discussion of morality, human life morality, not some religious what god wants morality can take place.

but then we start moving into the very philosophical area of what defines a person verses just life.

beezzer
What's your question?

please be blunt.

I despise obtuseness.

Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

SaturnFX
reply to post by introV

 

I would actually think overall an atheist would have bigger issues with abortion...not to say atheists are united on the concept of a afterlife, but generally speaking, they don't believe in one...or rather, they focus in on the life we do have, and to deny life to a potential seems to cheapen life...that's how I look at it. not a sin, just a shame. At least from that standpoint, a actual discussion of morality, human life morality, not some religious what god wants morality can take place.

but then we start moving into the very philosophical area of what defines a person verses just life.

Indeed.

I was concocting a response that was similar to this. Stating, the very fact life is so mysterious and the 'level of it's divinity' is so unknown.. it is a great shame to take a life, born or unborn. Just as it's a shame to rape a woman.


I just feel very lucky (or blessed if you're spiritual) to be alive. I almost don't believe it's real and have to pinch myself sometimes. It's a great shame what malicious things humans inflict on each other all to serve themselves. I feel the best thing we can do is teach our children the value of life and treating others with the utmost care.

And thank you

SaturnFX

beezzer
What's your question?

please be blunt.

I despise obtuseness.

Are babies sent to hell? yes or no

Heaven.

Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

Heaven is a better place than earth.

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

None.

Obviously, you condone murder because murdered people go to Heaven.

Which I find rather disturbing.

But to each his own.

If your are comfortable with your own moral standards then whom am I to judge?

“If men could get pregnant, abortion clinics would be like Starbucks - two on every block and four in every airport. And the morning-after pill would come in different flavors, like sea salt and cool ranch”
-Nasim Pedrad

SaturnFX
Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

Okay . . . is this how you view your own children?

I think your answer to that is really the answer to your questions in this thread.

-FBB

beezzer
Obviously, you condone murder because murdered people go to Heaven.

As stated already:
Now, once they are born, they start sinning and need to live long enough to redeem for their sins..murdering someone actually alive denies them their chance at salvation. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Using conventional x-ian theological understanding.

This is why using the topic in any religious context is purely illogical..you have to actually have a poor understanding of Christianity and no actual consideration of its implications to use it.
Best when presenting the subject to simply use a humanistic stance...not a religious one.

FriedBabelBroccoli

SaturnFX
Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

Okay . . . is this how you view your own children?

I think your answer to that is really the answer to your questions in this thread.

-FBB

edit on 5-4-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

No
I am not religious. Life is precious because its life, not because God made it..but because it exists.

Let's not forget that this was sponsored in part by the fruits of our labor. Our government is stealing our money and then using it to attack and provoke the people from whom they stole it.