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Shill issue?

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posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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A lot of people here worry about "shills". Even if there was a paid poster, so what? Having bias against that is akin to attacking the messenger, a logical fallacy.

I think the fear reflects a mentality of paranoia that gets many people interested in conspiracy theories in the first place.




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by Chronogoblin
 


I guess I simply dislike dishonesty.

That matters!! Spade.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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The real question is how much are these political shills getting paid?
I'm sure the GOP has deep pockets...
I wouldn't mind the extra moolah.
##SNIPPED##
edit on Sat Apr 5 2014 by DontTreadOnMe because: Terms and Conditions of Use--Please Review



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Chronogoblin
 


Ah, but a differing opinion isn't necessarily dishonesty.

It's merely, or usually so, looking at an issue from another angle.

No matter the topic, there's always more than one way to look at it. Nor is any one way of looking at something necessarily wrong, or dishonest...

Especially when a topic is an on going issue with new information constantly coming out.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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Chronogoblin
Ok, it seems a few people think that I am about censorship, or that I am somehow naive to how the game works, neither is the case. I was mistaken, in thinking that it matters to folks. I guess I simply dislike dishonesty. Thank you for your answers.



The real shills move to off topic and to personal attacks rather than allowing conservation or debate on topics they do not wish to become popular.

As to whether there are those that are shills on the internet, I think we all know the answer:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you have more info on shills on the internet please add them to the discussion, I would be particularly interested in Obama's crew. Not supporting either of the two major parties I like to seeing the dirt on both our corrupt corperate parties.

edit on 5-4-2014 by AlaskanDad because: typo



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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There's paid shills and unpaid shills. The former is rarer than hen's teeth and the latter everyone everywhere.

Paid shills get television spots, like Rupert Murdoch and President Obama. They are on the television to sell something, like ideas and products.

Unpaid shills are just ordinary people who prefer one thing over another, like beer over wine, conservatism over liberalism or Chevies over Fords. As soon as they make their preferences known, they are shilling them.

Me? I'm a shill for creative expression. What do you want to be a shill for?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Chronogoblin
 


You asked a loaded question, specifically (I'm paraphrasing off of memory), "How long will this site allow paid shills to post their political agenda?". What makes you think that way? We allow anyone who signs up to post as long as they abide our TAC, if they are getting paid for posting political propaganda we'd never know it and therefore have no ability to allow or disallow it.

You seem to think you can tell they are being paid based off of their sign up date and content contributions, that is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but seriously, that would be similar to me saying I know people who use the letter T, and joined the site in March, 2014 are all booger eating morons who wear pink underwear. Ludicrous.

The real question is, what difference does it make? None.

Has your political opinion been swayed by someone posting on ATS? I seriously doubt it.

Now you're implying that we don't care about "dishonesty", what in the world makes you think just because someone is being paid to post here (they're not) they are dishonest in what they post? Why would anyone post material they fundamentally disagreed with just for money? If there's that much paid posting going on I'd bet you could find someone from your team willing to pony up and pay you for your brilliant propaganda to counter all the shills from the other team.

In the end it's a total scam anyway. The two party system is really one party, the power to the elite party, it's brilliance is that it makes you believe you have a team that will fight for your interests because they spew utter crap that they know you want to hear so you'll vote for them in the next election cycle. They're laughing all the way to the bank in Zurich in the G-6 you paid for!



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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Springer
reply to post by Chronogoblin
 


it's a total scam anyway. The two party system is really one party, the power to the elite party, it's brilliance is that it makes you believe you have a team that will fight for your interests because they spew utter crap that they know you want to hear so you'll vote for them in the next election cycle. They're laughing all the way to the bank in Zurich in the G-6 you paid for!


If only the truth of that would sink in to everyone
We are so easily led around by our noses.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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Springer
reply to post by Chronogoblin
 


You asked a loaded question, specifically (I'm paraphrasing off of memory), "How long will this site allow paid shills to post their political agenda?". What makes you think that way? We allow anyone who signs up to post as long as they abide our TAC, if they are getting paid for posting political propaganda we'd never know it and therefore have no ability to allow or disallow it.

You seem to think you can tell they are being paid based off of their sign up date and content contributions, that is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but seriously, that would be similar to me saying I know people who use the letter T, and joined the site in March, 2014 are all booger eating morons who wear pink underwear. Ludicrous.

The real question is, what difference does it make? None.

Has your political opinion been swayed by someone posting on ATS? I seriously doubt it.

Now you're implying that we don't care about "dishonesty", what in the world makes you think just because someone is being paid to post here (they're not) they are dishonest in what they post? Why would anyone post material they fundamentally disagreed with just for money? If there's that much paid posting going on I'd bet you could find someone from your team willing to pony up and pay you for your brilliant propaganda to counter all the shills from the other team.

In the end it's a total scam anyway. The two party system is really one party, the power to the elite party, it's brilliance is that it makes you believe you have a team that will fight for your interests because they spew utter crap that they know you want to hear so you'll vote for them in the next election cycle. They're laughing all the way to the bank in Zurich in the G-6 you paid for!



Simply ! Brilliant!!

Flawless victory !



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Springer
 




If there's that much paid posting going on I'd bet you could find someone from your team willing to pony up and pay you for your brilliant propaganda to counter all the shills from the other team.


Now that's a great idea, we should track down these moneybags and all get signed up regardless of what field we play on. Then everyone will get paid for doing what we do anyway. No harm, no foul.

Beez had it right, even if there are shills (paid or otherwise) it simply increases our knowledge of the issues. Haven't seen any really blatantly pro-party political pieces come off that well anyway.
edit on 888pm4646pm32014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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no shills?
what just happened in cuba?

U.S. secretly created 'Cuban Twitter' to stir unrest
$1.6 million US spent on ZunZuneo was publicly earmarked for another project
The U.S. government masterminded the creation of a "Cuban Twitter" — a communications network designed to undermine the communist government in Cuba, built with secret shell companies and financed through foreign banks, The Associated Press has learned.

The project, which lasted more than two years and drew tens of thousands of subscribers, sought to evade Cuba's stranglehold on the internet with a primitive social media platform. First, the network would build a Cuban audience, mostly young people; then, the plan was to push them toward dissent.

Yet its users were neither aware it was created by a U.S. agency with ties to the State Department, nor that American contractors were gathering personal data about them, in the hope that the information might be used someday for political purposes.
www.cbc.ca...

straight from the mouth of canadian state sponsored media itself
so it has to be true


personally i say drag your opponent out into the light and whup him in public
after a few of those... shill gets fired..No?
or do they have some sort of union?
edit on Satpm4b20144America/Chicago51 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


That program, trying to stop a government's choke on social media and get young people to move in a specific political direction (dissent against the current regime) is not what this topic is about. That's a major program looking to enact social change via new media.

The shills this thread is about are individuals who are paid to post on public forums to sway opinion or out yell the opposition. BIG difference but, your post does prove something we've been saying for over a decade, you can bet the governments, big corps and others with deep pockets will try to manipulate the internet in their favor by whatever means they can afford or have been sold on.

My point in this thread has been that "paid individual shills posting on a public forum" is so small time and has such a dismal potential ROI, it would never be done by anyone smart enough to worry about.

edit on 4-5-2014 by Springer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:40 AM
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projectbane

SubTruth

Springer
Such utter nonsense. This is the INTERNETS people! Trolls abound shills are myths. Get a clue and a much thicker skin (a faster brain helps too).









If I was the PTB I would use every tool I could and with the mainstream media losing it's grip.............
edit on 5-4-2014 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



But you are not the PTB, so live with it.

The strange pattern that occurs on here is that if one person has a differing view to a few he is classed as a shill!! Just because someone has a differing view on hot topics does not mean he is a shill, it could be his/her first exposure to that topic and based on upbringing and demographics could hold a completely warped view. IF you do not like it then don't respond.







Think you might be missing the point if the PTB are willing to record every single thing you are doing and date mine that what do you think the odds are they actually pay people to sway opinion?



This is common sense....... government and corporations around the world are using this tool to push agendas.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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xuenchen
The 2014 election debate is now officially open.

Let people come and voice opinions.

It separates the "men" from the "boys" every time.

The stronger and more fact-based arguments will always prevail.

-->>>>



Coming from you that is hilarious. You are always posting anti Obama stuff..real or not..


If a paid shill exists..you just might on the top of that list..



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by Springer
 


government and ROI?
lol..thats funny

Actually i do get your point, and since Im not that bright, I prefer to win over any opposition regardless of their motives by citation. ( not sure where i learned to at least try to do that anyway...)
so im not really trying to be disagreeable

would this fit the op, and provide value for the ( american probably )tax dollar?


"The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track Web sites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of ****** activists can place supportive messages

www.jpost.com...

the word "weapon" is in the link title



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 07:52 AM
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If one really wants to get into this discussion lets use the right terms, astroturfing and sockpuppets.


But for a defense contractor with ties to the federal government, Hunton & Williams, DOD, NSA, and the CIA – whose enemies are labor unions, progressive organizations, journalists, and progressive bloggers, a persona apparently goes far beyond creating a mere sockpuppet. According to an embedded MS Word document found in one of the HB Gary emails, it involves creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated “persona management” software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online.

source


After I wrote about online astroturfing in December, I was contacted by a whistleblower. He was part of a commercial team employed to infest internet forums and comment threads on behalf of corporate clients, promoting their causes and arguing with anyone who opposed them. Like the other members of the team, he posed as a disinterested member of the public. Or, to be more accurate, as a crowd of disinterested members of the public: he used 70 personas, both to avoid detection and to create the impression there was widespread support for his pro-corporate arguments. I'll reveal more about what he told me when I've finished the investigation I'm working on.

source


An Increase in Sockpuppeting & Astroturfing Reviewing 30 reports from the past three years (2010 to 2013) where we provided analysis of the use of these tactics, we have seen a 47% increase in the use of sockpuppeting and astroturfing in social media and news media websites where we have a 85% or higher confidence level in their use. We have a set of criteria we apply under review by human analysts to determine if these tactics are in play. Business Has Picked Up These Political Tools No longer are these tactics the domain of just political parties either. We’ve noted increased use of these tactics by large corporations and sometimes smaller businesses. When it comes to businesses using these tactics it is usually to drive down search engine and social media results/content of competitors or as a tactic to promote a specific product. Some larger corporations, such as those in the extractive resources sector may also be using them (or their hired PR firms) to attempt to sway citizen opinions on matters of public policy that impact mega projects.

source



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by AlaskanDad
 


Socks come at us like a herd of pigs sometimes, and all this new data says they may be all the same person (bible reference, the hogs jumping over the cliff after Jesus - ever the animal rights activist - directed them to). I enjoy watching when a topic comes up and half a dozen new members sign up to argue for the other side of it and seldom sign up to agree with the poster.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Aleister
 


While I was on the subject I did some searches to see if ATS user accounts were offered for sale on the internet and I did not find any. In the past I researched another socialmedia site where high rated posters accounts were up for sale along with auto voting software for the said site. The more popular sites become the more influence they have, this attracts those that wish to influence opinions, from governments to private users.

It's all about the money!



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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Questions answered. If people don't care, then I'll let it go. Once again proving that truth matter little in the grand scheme of things. As long as they don't sell anything, than it's fine to post whatever you want, got it.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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Springer
The real question is, what difference does it make? None.


I guess not, except take up space.


Springer
Has your political opinion been swayed by someone posting on ATS? I seriously doubt it.


Actually, it has. Thanks.


Springer
Now you're implying that we don't care about "dishonesty", what in the world makes you think just because someone is being paid to post here (they're not) they are dishonest in what they post? Why would anyone post material they fundamentally disagreed with just for money?


Because they're getting paid... Why does anyone do anything for money? That question was a bit naive for a business man.


Springer
If there's that much paid posting going on I'd bet you could find someone from your team willing to pony up and pay you for your brilliant propaganda to counter all the shills from the other team.


First off, I don't have a 'team.' Secondly, I really disagree with the implication that I spread propaganda. I had one thread back in the original Obama election that tried to show the backhanded racism underflowing through the people running for government, and got slapped down, and called a racist myself. That's not creating 7 threads in one day, most of which are simply puff pieces for the current admin.


Springer
In the end it's a total scam anyway. The two party system is really one party, the power to the elite party, it's brilliance is that it makes you believe you have a team that will fight for your interests because they spew utter crap that they know you want to hear so you'll vote for them in the next election cycle. They're laughing all the way to the bank in Zurich in the G-6 you paid for!


Already knew that, thanks, I guess, for re-iterating. Not sure what that has to do with people being paid to spread dis-info.




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