Chicago’s newly armed residents send murder rate plummeting

imod02
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

The list you give is just BS, most of the contrys in the Africa Continent have no control or way of counting who is been killed outside the big citys, where as in Europe its more precise. So you are just choosing results things to suit your own point of view. I would also ask if everyone has guns how does this help, I have a .22, but he has a .38, so I have to get a .45, but he has hollow point bullets so I have to get one shot one kill bullets. It never stops, and we end up with a wild west with people shooting people from behind to rob them, or shooting them from passing cars to rob them, it can only get worse.

lets break the chain:
may i throw a spider goat bullet proof vest into your exponential escalation?

reply to post by Grimpachi

I still find it astounding how many people still think that guns are the cause of crime and murder.

As your post so clearly points out by the numbers how well disarming everyone by legislation only keeps guns out of the hands of those willing to pay heed to the law and not own or use firearms...

It really isn't only about guns or little people like us down here either when regarding weapons of any type bcause governments and all types of entities both corporeal and fictional play the same games.

It's really just one giant arms race and it isn't only weapons like guns and knives that are used as weapons; economics, food, health care, everything imaginable is used as a weapon by one group against another group for pretty much any reason one could imagine.

Good post.

Bassago
reply to post by xuenchen

 

If Obama (or Rahm or Bloomberg or Biden or Reid or Feinstein) had their way there wouldn't be an armed citizen left in the US. Good for Chicago and let's keep spreading the good word.

ANYONE---->>> else notice a marked pickup in the pro leftist and Obama propaganda around here lately? I can feel their fear.

Yes indeed sir I have.

I also feel their fear, it is thick, like a grimy fog.

This is silly! The only reason the #'s are drastically down is the weather. Plain and simple. The weather has been awful here.

Good for them. Let's hope it stays that wayand wasn't just because of the weather as some people mentioned.

Grimpachi
[...]

However, SWITZERLAND'S law requires that EVERYONE:

1. Own a gun.

2. Maintain Marksman qualifications .... regularly.

No, the laws in Switzerland require nothing like that.

Also, from the source of your source:

Intentional homicide, count and rate per 100,000 population (1995 - 2011)

Edit: Dammit, the format looked much different in the post editor, I'll try to make it more readable.
Edit2: Doesn't work, sorry. No matter how much blanks or so I fill in, it won't show up in a more orderly and readable fashion, at least not after posting it.


Switzerland CJ CTS/Eurostat
Rate 1,2 I 1,2 I 1,2 I 1,1 I 1,2 I 1,0 I 1,2 I 1,2 I 1,0 I 1,1 I 1,0 I 0,8 I 0,7 I 0,7 I 0,7 I 0,7
Count 82 I 83 I 87 I 76 I 89 I 69 I 86 I 86 I 73 I 79 I 75 I 60 I 51 I 54 I 51 I 52

Not sure where the supposed 0.0 come from.

USA CJ National police
Rate 8,1 I 7,3 I 6,7 I 6,2 I 5,6 I 5,5 I 5,6 I 5,6
Count 21606 I 19645 I 18208 I 16974 I 15522 I 15586 I 16037 I 16229

5,7 I 5,5 I 5,6 I 5,8 I 5,7 I 5,4 I 5,0 I 4,8
16528 I 16148 I 16740 I 17309 I 17128 I 16465 I 15399 I 14748

Not sure where the supposed 4.2 come from.

It might be interesting to look at the correlation between gun crimes or crimes in general and the social structure of a country. Somehow I think that will show that less poor people = less crime, guns or not. At least small crime like mugging and theft that is, as we all know that those that commit the big crimes have a big office, a fancy suit and an expensive car, so those numbers might actually rise.

Criminals are cowards that prey on the weak. Now the playing field is leveled...The thugs have no idea who is armed, and who is not, thus the drop in gun related crime in Chicago.

reply to post by xuenchen


This has worked for years in Kennesaw Georgia

Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia

The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to www.tysknews.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">

www.tysknews.com...keep at least one firearm in their homes.

smokenmirrors
Every time a gun thread comes up I think to myself how many Euro's, and others foreign alien folk, have no clue what the U.S. has going on within it's borders.

Ain't no comparison between Euroland and US of A.

Ain't no way I'll be unarmed in these lawless times.

Millions of illegals, drugs running rampant, gangs of every color, a murderous government, mass shootings by crazed loonies, knifin's, stabbin's, robbin's, jack booted police, roving bands of blacks, crazy right wing christian religious fanatics, skinheads, irish, greeks, muslims, nazis, medicated psychos every where you turn, all of 'em potentially armed, legal or not, gun smugglin', liquor, weed, crackheads, meth freaks, good lord, you'd be a fool to walk around unarmed.

Facts on the ground in Chicago are proven over and over in the US of A, only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is when a good guy with a gun shows up.

Wow. It must be Hell living in constant fright, terrified of your sorroundings 24/7. Accute paranoia and fear of EVERYTHING should be classified as a mental disorder and treated as such. Hope you get treatment one day and balance your life a bit before you shoot someone in a sudden panic attack.

imod02
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

The list you give is just BS, most of the contrys in the Africa Continent have no control or way of counting who is been killed outside the big citys, where as in Europe its more precise. So you are just choosing results things to suit your own point of view. I would also ask if everyone has guns how does this help, I have a .22, but he has a .38, so I have to get a .45, but he has hollow point bullets so I have to get one shot one kill bullets. It never stops, and we end up with a wild west with people shooting people from behind to rob them, or shooting them from passing cars to rob them, it can only get worse.

I can kill a man with any of those handguns. Dead is dead. There is no reason to escalate to a .45 or larger. A .38 is more than enough for personal defense outside a combat zone.

Your making leaps of logic here.There are plenty of places that already allow guns OC and CC. Your fairy tale of escalation hasnt occurred.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

While I am 100% in favor of absolute firearm ownership and carry for everyone on the planet I have to call shenanigans on this.

While it is true petty thugs will eventually learn they can't get away with assaulting/mugging/burglarizing armed people the reality is the number of armed people is low compared to the unarmed. Of that number even fewer will be victims of an assault, mugging or other attack and fewer still will be in a position to draw their firearm either because they arent carrying whenever/wherever they should or can be or they have not accepted their role and trained accordingly to react to such a situation.

On the criminals side most of these murders and assaults happen amongst themselves shooting and attacking each other for petty nonsense such as territory and street cred. The legal status of firearm ownership and carry does not apply to these people.

Third, these things take time. It took time for the elk to learn to fear the newly introduced wolves at Yellowstone. At the beginning the elk would just stand there and die not knowing what a wolf was. Eventually they learned to run and be situationally aware of the new predator on the block.

Criminals are dumb. The general public is largely clueless of the world around them so I can only imagine how out of touch half-tard gang bangers must be. It'll be a while before they learn the prey is armed. Certainly longer than a couple of months.

I have no doubt that more people carrying will reduce overall violent crimes against those people but that change will take years to manifest and require more of those who can carry to do so. Some things that could speed this process maybe a quarterly publishing of how many permits are out there. Not names just a number of permits. Also the media and the state would have to stop their pointless crusade against gun owners. Gangbanger Leroy gets a page 9 blurb when he kills a neighborhood kid but a guy with a legit permit who gets pinned for printing under a shirt is page one news. That nonsense needs to stop. Another is heads on pikes for the other criminals to see but that would be terribly un-PC.

The gun debate is over. The American people, Democrats and Republicans alike, overwhelmingly embrace their Constitutional Right to bear arms. Whether they choose to exercise their right is of course left to the individual citizen.

There are over 300 million guns in the U.S., and this number increases every single day. The people have spoken, and this is a losing issue and battle for those who support strict gun control laws.
Just ask Piers Morgan, (formerly on Prime time TV at CNN)...he lost his job over this very issue.

reply to post by xavi1000


Well, here is what gun supporters would say to that.

"You may not need them now and that's fine and dandy right now but when and IF and most likely there will be an IF one day that you do need them. You won't have them or the right to own and bare them either."

It's not just an American thing. So quickly we as people of the world forget human nature and history.
I am a US Citizen. I currently do not own a firearm as I do not need one. But I sure am glad that I retain the right to own one if I so desire and to be able to use it lawfully to defend my family, home and fellow citizens if ever the circumstances arise.

Guns are never the issue. It's people who are the issue. I live in Illinois and Illinois is smart for making people go through proper training before even be allowed to carry let alone concealed. A more educated and informed armed society is the safest society.

Good, other cities in US should follow...

reply to post by Grimpachi


Your reply was one of the best objective arguments I've seen in a long time. You completely destroyed the argument with facts, not opinion, and the info you provided showed in a crystal clear manner, the effect that citizens having gun rights does to the impact of murder and crime.

I'd give you 100 stars if I could.

~Namaste

Snoopy1978 Wow. It must be Hell living in constant fright, terrified of your sorroundings 24/7. Accute paranoia and fear of EVERYTHING should be classified as a mental disorder and treated as such. Hope you get treatment one day and balance your life a bit before you shoot someone in a sudden panic attack.

Nah, I don't need treatment, in fact, you suggesting such is proof positive of your lack of understanding the U.S. of A.

Truth be told, I'm an old country boy, highly educated, humble too, been around guns my whole life, never seen a gun kill anybody yet.

Heckfire, even when loaded, STILL ain't seen a gun kill nobody.

You get over here some time and we'll go out and do some shootin'.......it's a blast!

I been thinkin', possibly you should seek treatment for your twisted, anxiety riddled, paralyzing, non-objective, psychotic, fear of a ittty bitty firearm.....appears to be a mental disorder ya have there.

Xtrozero

xavi1000


Rest of the world is doing just fine without guns

BTW when Russia steamrolls Europe like Germany did, I would bet they wished they had guns.... Oh I forgot, that could never happen today...my bad.

edit on 4-4-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

I'm pro gun. However, gun ownership is only a viable protection against other criminals but not a gov't or military entity overtaking its citizens.

If in the unlikely event the US gov't decided to overtake its citizens they could easily do it. Look at wako. You can have any weapons you want in your compound but if they want you they can fight you remotely with drones or mile and miles away before you even get a chance to pick up your AK. Sadam had a better arsenal than any militia and it didn't work out to well for him.

Sorry but that is the reality of today, gun ownership is only viable protection for citizens against citizens.

I'm totally pro gun, fishing rods, hatchets, knives, drills, hammers, frying pans...hell even vibrators should be avalliable to them that needs them...
but
the thing to get freedom for is pens
not guns..because government has guns too...
but government should be kept in a small enclosed pen

I wouldnt get too excited about those numbers, here in chicago the shootings follow the weather patterns.
If we have a bad cold winter, with lots of snow. our murder numbers drop for those months. like clockwork

fighting is seasonal here. look for the numbers to start increasing again as the city starts to thaw out

I still think people have a hard time grasping that part, if not most, of the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to allow a society that embraces liberty to defend itself against a tyrannical government. In fact, there ought to be no limits whatsoever on gun ownership according to the 2nd because of two key features, those being "the people" and "shall not be infringed". Having a federal government, or state government, or local police force, that can outgun the population as a collective is a dangerous thing as history has proven time and again. And to those who argue that cops have a hard enough time keeping up with armed civilians and to make them unrestricted would be unfair, I say that society in general is the protection. If arms are used in criminal intent, it only represents the criminal and I refuse to believe that society in general falls into that category. In an unrestricted armed population, society is not going to allow the odd criminal, heavily armed or not, to take over.

The problem isn't the gun; it's the idiot behind it. Armed civilians can help sort out the idiots. Policing is not omnipresent and ought not to be. When seconds count, and police are minutes away, arms can be really handy. I for one, don't want to live in a society that does have omnipresent police, doesn't allow self-defense, and doesn't allow weaponry that can match that of the federal government. It's called liberty. It forces the minimization of government, a good thing to me. It leaves control in the hands of "the People", and I'm quite content with that. I understand that there are risks with unrestricted gun ownership. There will be 'events'. I still favor those risks over the development of an overwhelmingly powerful federal government that exercises complete control. That's the direction it's headed now. There's no denying it.

reply to post by interupt42


We have a rink dink national guard in my small town. They do have some neat "toys" but the piss poor security and lack of soldiers to defend it would make overtaking it nearly effortless.

And many of those good old boys would just walk out and go home.

I like you have no doubt that if the military went full retard on us we WOULD lose. But I wouldn't call it a "win" for them.

Who's gonna pay the fat cats salaries? Nah...they're too greedy to kill us all