Why have children? My reasoning.

reply to post by liejunkie01


I am not religious ... I do believe in God.

If one does not believe in God then there is NO LOGICAL REASONS to be moral at all and your argument falls apart because selfishness reigns supreme!

Please show me some logical reasons to have children!

My ancestors have murdered me by making me mortal and I OWE THEM NOTHING! They owe me an explanation on why they could not be moral enough to not have kids who are going to absolutely die one day [and therefor suffer]!

To do the 'right thing" is to DO NO HARM and having children is harmful to them and others and to the planet!

P.S My life is not pure and I am not perfect!

reply to post by liejunkie01


hold on a moment, please..

..you didn't actually answer any of those questions back there?

you're doing some JUDGEMENT of your own, good sir, seeing as how i didn't even mention the word "gay" in my post..

how did you come away with that interpretation?

you are avoiding those questions.. why?

have a think about what i've asked you and see if you can have another go at it.

did you even look at the link i suggested?

UNIT76
reply to post by liejunkie01

 

hold on a moment, please..

..you didn't actually answer any of those questions back there?

you're doing some JUDGEMENT of your own, good sir, seeing as how i didn't even mention the word "gay" in my post..

how did you come away with that interpretation?

you are avoiding those questions.. why?

have a think about what i've asked you and see if you can have another go at it.

did you even look at the link i suggested?

I'm sorry I must have mistaken you reply to my post about the gay and lesbian question incorrectly.

After all your opening paragraph stated this.

why do you put precedence on children coming into the world, but overlook the family unit or foundation these children are to be raised in?

After all you quoted this from my comment about the particular posters question.

How else was I supposed to take this comment?

As far as the rest of your questions, they boiled down to family structure, am I correct.

It is obvious to me that you are not getting my point about teaching our children to do right, and respect others, and do the best that we can to teach them how to be good people.

If this consists of a "family structure" then it does.

If a father leaves a mother to raise the child on her own, I hope she does the best that she can and eventually find someone who will love and care for them as a "family".

As far as your astronaut question. That is a completely moot question. I cannot put myself in that situation because I am not an astronaut, I don't know any astronauts, and I am sure that each and every one of them has their own way of dealing with their family affairs.

I cannot help that some children grow older without one parent or the other. Is it better to have a traditional family atmosphere? Yes. But you nor I can control what anybody else does.

As far as a woman raising a child for another woman, does it not happen? Could it not happen. If a man, woman, couple of what ever sexual orientation cannot have children, can they not come to an agreement with said donor? Does that make them wrong?

I don't kow what you expect me to say, hence my short comnent to you earlier. A family structure is better for the child, but we live in a world where we don't always live the way someone else expects us to, some circumstances are out of our control and all we can do is do the best we can.

reply to post by ZonedOut

If one does not believe in God then there is NO LOGICAL REASONS to be moral at all and your argument falls apart because selfishness reigns supreme!

All I have to say about this is,

Really?????

Nice reasoning.

mor·al
ˈmôrəl,ˈmär-/
noun
plural noun: morals
1.
a lesson, esp. one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
"the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has"
synonyms: lesson, message, meaning, significance, signification, import, point, teaching More
2.
a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.
"the corruption of public morals"
synonyms: moral code, code of ethics, (moral) values, principles, standards, (sense of) morality, scruples
"he has no morals"

The dictionary.

I believe your whole argument falls apart.

I dunno, you're making this about continuing bloodlines as if that's something special. It's only part of the human survival mechanism, there's nothing inherently special about continuing the lines except that the ancestors did overcome, survive and reproduce. That seems the best argument supporting continuation.

Nowadays even that is becoming a weak argument. Seems like the dumbest of the lot are breeding like rabbits to me.

Ok, I have chosen to have no children.

I cant understand why you would criticise others for choosing to live their lives the way they want. Are you a politician? lol.

I assume you are against abortion too. Would you like to see people who do not want children having to be responsible for them......that is wrong.

Why do you feel it necessary to criticize other people who have done nothing wrong at all and just want to get on with their lives. I wouldn't be a good parent because I dont want to be a parent....its simple. If your ideas were correct we would have a lot of neglected kids around.


These views of yours are very 1984. Are you a controlling type of person?

Should peodophiles have kids? Who, what are the exceptions to your very extreme views.

If I an adopted and don't know my birth parents, then what bloodline am I 'smacking in the face' if I choose to not bring a child into the world ?

If a child is brought into the world as a result of rape, is that 'smacking in the face' of a rapist's bloodline by not having a child themselves ?

I believe that bringing a child into the world is a privilege, not a right as so many seem to think. If it was a right, then everyone would be able to do it, as a right. If the world had the same outlook as you on this issue, the global population would be in the trillions by now !

Bassago
I dunno, you're making this about continuing bloodlines as if that's something special. It's only part of the human survival mechanism, there's nothing inherently special about continuing the lines except that the ancestors did overcome, survive and reproduce. That seems the best argument supporting continuation.

Nowadays even that is becoming a weak argument. Seems like the dumbest of the lot are breeding like rabbits to me.

edit on 366am1111am22014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)

I feel it is more about respecting your ancestors will to survive so that you can live today, and in turn giving your offspring to do the same.

That comes down to family heritage and your bloodline.

To me it is special because it is what separates us as individuals. Knowing where you came from and how the journey affects you and your future descendants.

greavsie1971
Ok, I have chosen to have no children.

I cant understand why you would criticise others for choosing to live their lives the way they want. Are you a politician? lol.

I assume you are against abortion too. Would you like to see people who do not want children having to be responsible for them......that is wrong.

Why do you feel it necessary to criticize other people who have done nothing wrong at all and just want to get on with their lives. I wouldn't be a good parent because I dont want to be a parent....its simple. If your ideas were correct we would have a lot of neglected kids around.


These views of yours are very 1984. Are you a controlling type of person?

Should peodophiles have kids? Who, what are the exceptions to your very extreme views.

This is your choice. Not mine.

I do not wish to control anybody.

I said I believe you are doing your ancestors a "disservice" by not choosing to continue your family heritage. This is my opinion, I stated that.

Since you chose not to have children, and that is completely fine with me, your side of the family will not carry on further than you. Is this not the truth?

As far as abortion, which I did not mention at all, I will give my opinion on tge matter. I am sure there will be droves of people singling out my opinion,

I believe in the freedom to choose. I believe in freedom. I believe that nobody should tell anybody what to do with their body. I believe this debate has went too far. I know women who have had abortions, not with my child, I do not judge them at all.

So your assumptions about me are completely wrong. I believe we should have the right to our freedoms and choise what we want to do in life. There is too much control already and our freedoms are being eroded away ecery single day.

You chose not to have children. That is your right.

reply to post by liejunkie01


But you make it sound like people who haven't had kids in the past do not deserve as much respect as our ancestors who did have kids. We all play our parts in society, having kids is just 1 aspect.

I would say there are people on this planet that SHOULD NOT have kids. Parenting skills have dwindled massivley the last couple of decades thanks to controlling governments and nanny states.

I have noticed views of people on ATS getting more and more extreme. This is very worrying indeed as this is a reflection of society as a whole and views like these can cause great upset and distress if ever acted upon by governments. I worry for our future when these kinds of viewpoints are raised with no thought of others rights to live their lives as they see fit.

reply to post by liejunkie01


You have not shown why selfishness would not reign supreme in a universe without a moral God!

That is the crux of your argument and without proving that humans are naturally moral and not selfish [i.e. ALWAYS act in EVERYONES best interest and not just their own] ... your argument falls apart!

LOGIC has a process and you are not following it and that IS UNREASONABLE and brings your humanity into question.

What I was getting at is the fact the viewpoint itself is very authoritarian. I know you are probably just like me as far as views on freedoms are and the right to choose how we live our lives. I am just trying to get you to appreciate how these views of yours can be conceived by those of us you seem to be criticizing.

I know you mean no harm or offence but just expressing views like this does cause some offence to those of us that choose to not have kids.

Im sure you can understand this as effectively this OP is criticising my life choices. After reading the OP I assumed you were anti freedoms. I appologise for that but hope you understand why this was the case.

If you are pro freedom, you should not criticize peoples choices when they cause no harm to others.......you cant have both. Most people on ATS do not see that.

why make children ?

(it's a selfish reason)

it's to give our life a meaning (and to become less selfish in the process)

you can have literally no heart like dick cheney or run after anti-aging drugs to become immortal, but unless you are a disciplined and genuine monk (whatever the religion), you'll never get close to grasp the reality and beauty of life without having children.

something happens at the time of delivery (to men also) that cannot be describe with words, yes like a spiritual awakening.

this being said, that's not automatic for the people and the awful truth of our paradigm is that a good brainwashed consumer makes children to produce new good brainwashed consumers to continue to feed the machine and serve the machine maker without asking question

reply to post by anHairInTheSoup


So people who have no kids......their life has no purpose? Not sure if this is what you are saying. I have nephews neices, enjoy their company very much. I have family that give me quality of life.

My life is beautiful at the moment and have no gaps that need filling with kids.

reply to post by greavsie1971


unless you are a true spiritual achiever

but then your ego wouldn't get offended by words...

edit : oh you remove the get insulted part, good ! ignore that previous statement then

now reread what i wrote : "there is something that happen at the time of delivery that cannot be described by words, yes like a spiritual awakening"

& what follows also about our paradigm

reply to post by liejunkie01

it was because you said "as far as i'm concerned"
i wondered how this might clash with the concerns of your/our ancestors?

this initially grabbed my attention;

The people before you carried the torch of life so you could have life.

(and)

I believe that for the most part we have grown selfish and self centered as a species.

..what happened to that torch?

saturnFX;

The best thing you can do to honor the ancestors is to pass down the collected knowledge, wisdom, and traditions they picked up and passed down.

you;

After all, for the most part, they passed down their knowledge and skills so that their children could survive, knowing that someday they would have children.

(and) because you didn't say "could"
...you said "would"
so how did our ancestors have children?

what does the symbolism in the katy perry picture show you?
..consider reading the topic linked in the signature

innermost;

I think most of the people born into the world were the product of selfish intentions.

i'll get back to that.. (and overlook how you said "as far as i'm concerned")

you;

...boiled down to family structure...
...If this consists of a "family structure"...

the very next thing you said;

If a father leaves a mother to raise the child on her own, I hope she does the best that she can and eventually find someone who will love and care for them as a "family".

so i shouldn't even be writing any of this?
father, mother, child.. you just said it yourself?
..but you did say "someone"
and i suppose that could be anyone then?
how about an orangutang?
you think i'm being silly, and i am.. but wait,
do you believe in interbreeding? (colloqial speech)
no?
well if you think it's ok for two men to breed together, that's a type of interbreeding, isn't it?

what people don't seem to realize is the significance of male/female interaction. not just for "breeding"
i'm talking about in our heads. psycho-ma-logical
the divine marriage
you said it yourself;

Is it better to have a traditional family atmosphere? Yes.

don't tell me elton john and his husband don't play at being a man and a woman.
with their new "baby" (there's those selfish intentions from way back up top the post)
what people don't seem to realize is the significance of male/female interaction. not just for "breeding"

the "astronaut" thing was a metaphor.. nevermind about that,
what i want to know is.. what i first asked..

why do you put precedence on children coming into the world, but overlook the family unit or foundation these children are to be raised in?

the "foundation" is being destroyed right around you across the world. physically, psychologically & spiritually

what people don't realize is how the "system" is trying to merge the two into one (that's another metaphor... or is it?)

you probably thought this guy was crazy when he said this;

Life had better be perfect before anyone considers bring anyone else into this reality OR they are INHUMANE!

it is often said madmen have brilliant insight,
i don't expect perfection, but i do expect a foundation at least..
you might well think i'm mad too

reply to post by liejunkie01


I just know that I have Jewish, French, Spanish and Italian. Most of that info is based on my surname. I was mostly joking with you with my last reply, by the way. Lol.

You didn't ask to be born, so you own them nothing. And if anyone feels he's so special he needs to have someone to "carry the torch", then clearly he's the selfish one.

I feel it is my duty to keep my family heritage alive well into the future..

And there you go.. your feelings determine what you think.
I help the people I know and love out with their children, but I "feel" like we have enough around already without adding to the mix.

b

mkpetrov
You didn't ask to be born, so you own them nothing. And if anyone feels he's so special he needs to have someone to "carry the torch", then clearly he's the selfish one.

a...men

I owe them absolutely nothing. It's all for naught anyway because someday lines will end. I have way too much to accomplish in my life and do not need kids to give me purpose. I won't go into what my purpose is but I do have purpose and having children would destroy that purpose

so now I owe them absolutely nothing