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The Catholic Kill-joys who condemn Sister Cristina

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posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by DarknStormy
 


Regarding the important issue of portentous hand-signs as mentioned by DarknStormy

Ivan Lopez flashes "The Devil Horns" as a salute to the evil one? Some see this as innocent gesturing but some see it as very ominous indeed as indicated by DarknStormy.

The Devil Horns are also known as “Mano Cornuto,” represents an ancient symbol that many not be aware of. It is an old, well known greeting of one Satanist to another. Usually, the Illuminists (re: Illuminati) are a lot more subtle and don’t do that publicly.” Mano Cornuto, is a sign of recognition between and allegiance of Lucifer’s servants’.

The following pictures do not mean absolutely that Ivan Lopez, nor everyone for that matter, that is photographed using the devils horns are necessarily Satanists. I am aware that there are many people who flash this hand sign in ignorance, but at the same time there are very many who do this in full awareness of its true meaning.






edit on 5-4-2014 by fivefister because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



So would the nun be pleased to know she has flashed the symbol of allegiance to Satan while on camera. If God means everything to her would she be proud of herself. That is up to her to decide
Even nuns can be gullible and ignorant, just like everyone else.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 09:03 AM
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markosity1973
reply to post by DarknStormy
 


Ask a Jew, a Hindu and a Nazi what a swastika means. You'll get three totally different answers based upon faith, culture and horrific experience, all caused by the one same symbol.

Your argument is invalid for the very same reason.

edit on 5-4-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



Those who claim that if the thumb is diplayed, it is not the "El Diablo" Satan hand sign may just want to take a gander at the cover of a recently published (2005) book by Sondra London entitled True Vampires—Blood-Sucking Killers Past and Present. Published by Feral House, a book company originally founded by Anton LaVey, High Priest of the Church of Satan, the cover clearly demonstrates that, for hard-core Satanists, there is no real difference in meaning whether the sign includes the thumb or does not.


To the inventor of the deaf signing system.


Helen Keller (1880-1968), creator of the deaf signing system. The brilliant Keller was a pitiful character in some ways. Stricken blind and deaf at an early age, she nevertheless went on to considerable achievements in life.

But Helen Keller also got involved in occultic sects like Swedenborgianism and Theosophy. Did her membership in these groups inspire Keller to choose a hand sign for the deaf, translated as "I love you", which is today often used interchangeably with the universal "I love (and/or worship) Satan" hand sign?

These U.S. postal stamps depicting the deaf's "I love you" sign are shocking, to say the least. The inventor of the deaf signing system was herself an occultist and devotee of Theosophy, the Hindu/occult group founded by Russian mystic Helena Blavatsky, author of The Secret Doctrine.


Obviously the stamp has a picture of the hand sign on it.... Who is Helena Blavatsky?







The hand sign and it's origins

Now if the inventor of that sign was involved it occults and other things then maybe that sign was motivated by Satanism... But maybe she was also given that sign without knowing what it actually meant also, you know, being blind and deaf and all...
edit on 5-4-2014 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 09:16 AM
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DarknStormy
reply to post by markosity1973
 


What is she trying to achieve by going on the voice and singing her life away?

Anyone can dress up in modest apparel and the proclaim to be something they actually are not. Sensual is living by the desires, pleasures and lusts of the Earth. The Bible clearly states that it is "Demonic". So think about what I said and where Spirituality comes from because it certainly isn't from outside of an individual and their actions on the outside. It comes from within and that is where it stays based off what is taught through religion, not from you or anyone else. So when I say she is a hypocrite, I don't say it because that is my opinion, I say it because that is a guideline which must be followed through the very religion she proudly boasts about.


if there is one thing jesus hates its bringing joy to others
get a gun
kill em all
let god sortem out
i thought that went out with the childrens crusade
face palm



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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I think the big takeway here is the intent, what is in your heart. That is what matters. You can make all manner of empty gestures, but without the power of your own knowledge and conviction behind them, they are meaningless.

When I think about the number of times my hand can accidentally arrange itself into that configuration throughout the day ... Oh,no! I'm a horrible Satanist ... No, of course, not. I have no will or intent. My hand is just moving. Similarly, there are many people who call themselves Christian who go into a church every Sunday, some of whom even participate in Communion and other sacraments, who are empty in heart. They are simply going through empty motions. They aren't actually worshipping God, so their motions are meaningless. At the end of the day, He chew them up and spit them out.

So, what is in Sister Cristina's heart as she does this?

Can any of us really know or are we all just guessing and judging what we think is in her heart?

Only God can really know that.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by DarknStormy
 


well it looks as if ketsuko beat me to it. anyway.

do you honestly believe that if you are using a hand sign thinking it means one thing, but was invented to mean another, makes your intent of the sign evil. please.

it's what your spirit holds that determines what the sign means. if your taught that the sign means i love you, when you flash it that's what your saying in your heart , spirit soul. if your taught it's the sign of satan and you flash it then that's pledging to satan.

you have to willing give up to evil, not be tricked.ie from a form of learning how to communicate. if that were the case all death people the world has ever known that used that sign because they were taught that from the time they started to learn to sign, that sign was the sign for i love you, were pledging to satan.

that's a load of crap and you know it. quit tiring to be right, your obviously wrong in this case.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:47 AM
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babloyi
It seems you didn't read the link at all, because they actually address the verses provided.

I read it.

Your explanation is very nice and all, and it may possibly be true, but it is really nothing more than conjecture.

No. It's common sense.

For some reason there are fundamentalists who are afraid of a Jesus who would drink wine like everyone else of that time period. WIne and beer ... common drinks and SAFE drinks. The water wasn't safe to drink. It doesn't make them drunkards. It just makes them like everyone else ... drinking what is safe to drink - that being FERMENTED drinks.

Funny ... after I posted this information this morning I was watching H2 (History Channel) and they are going to have a show on alcohol in the bible. One of the promos showed the historian saying 'it was what was safe to drink so that's what they drank'.

I suggest people look for the show this week on the History Channel.


edit on 4/5/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


FlyersFan
No. It's common sense.

Actually, no, it isn't. It is an explanation created after the fact, to fit a narrative that people want.


FlyersFan
For some reason there are fundamentalists who are afraid of a Jesus who would drink wine like everyone else of that time period. WIne and beer ... common drinks and SAFE drinks. The water wasn't safe to drink. It doesn't make them drunkards. It just makes them like everyone else ... drinking what is safe to drink - that being FERMENTED drinks.

Drinking 2 litres of "good" (which you say means has extra alcohol content, but the people of the time disagree) wine in one sitting would definitely give people cause to call you a drunkard.

And again with the "unsafe" nonsense. At least you are not saying (like the previous poster) that they didn't drink water at all. Because they did. It feels painful to have to explain this in such excruciating detail, but drinking water was their major source of water. Drinking alcoholic beverages was not. Jesus definitely drank water, probably drank it every single day, definitely more often than he'd drink alcoholic beverages, as have people for thousands of years. You take basic precautions (don't drink stagnant water, make sure it is clear, etc.), you'd have no issue, just like the billions of people who drank water throughout history. You seem to have a remarkably low opinion of ancient people, and don't seem to be aware of how relatively advanced they were. They weren't idiots.

Whatever the case may be about Jesus drinking alcohol (there is evidence either way), there is definitely no evidence that people drank fermented wine instead of water as a means of putting off thirst. I hope you realise how absurd that is. When Jesus was thirsty, he asked for water. When Jesus wanted to make a point about thirst (like with the Samaritan woman at the well-notice "WELL"?) he talked about drinking WATER, not wine. When the Bible in general talks about quenching thirst, they use WATER, not wine. When Paul wrote to Timothy, he mentioned that he drank only water, and suggested having a little wine (back then, as now, people had this idea that wine helps with digestion, although I'm not sure if you want to take this command as biblical fact, especially coming from a dude who earlier in the same chapter called young widows busybodies who talk nonsense). If water was as dangerous as you claim, you wouldn't have someone being baptised every third page of the Bible.
Besides, the production procedure of wine back then would barely make it safer than water. Alcohol has antibacterial properties, but that is when it is applied topically. Mixing some wine in water wouldn't suddenly make the water safer (if it was even dangerous in the first place). This myth came about from the dark ages, and is about ale/beer, NOT wine. Boiling it was part of the brewing process, so it was safe. Again, that is the explanation, but the whole thing is still a ridiculous MYTH.
www.slate.com...

PS: It's been a long long time since the History Channel was a non-insane source of historical knowledge.
edit on 5-4-2014 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by DarknStormy
 


All I'm seeing is someone desperately clutching at straws, trying to force a theory to work by seeing something that's not there to support this view that they themself have stated;



No, the Roman Catholic Church is a heresy and no person can breath fresh air into that putrid institution. It has no legitimate claim to true Christianity and never will. It's nothing more than an insult to God and Jesus and if you understood the teachings you would see why...


Dr Ferdinand Porsche designed the VW Beetle for the Nazi regime to be the people's car of the third reich. Does it make everyone who owns one a Nazi? No.

Does a nun flashing a sign that has multiple meanings and more specifically a benign cultural meaning where she lives,mean she is a Satanist? In the context it was used, NO.

edit on 5-4-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 

Perhaps to put an end to this silly debate of Jesus and alcohol, we should look to the Jewish view on alcohol. After all, Jesus was a Jew and had attended a Jewish wedding.


Wine and intoxicating beverages are a fascinating subject when viewed from the Torah's perspective. On one hand, we use wine for kiddush and havdallah on Shabbat and Jewish holidays, and many, many mitzvot are accompanied by a cup of wine. Blessings are recited on a cup of wine beneath the chupah (wedding canopy), at a circumcision, at a Pidyon Haben (the "Redemption of a Firstborn Son"), and let's not forget the four cups of wine we drink at the Passover seder. In the Scriptures, wine is described as "bringing joy to G‑d and man" (Judges 9:13). And, indeed, every sacrifice offered in the Holy Temple was accompanied by a wine libation. Because wine is considered to be the "king of beverages" the rabbis coined a special blessing to be recited exclusively on wine: the Hagafen blessing. And let us not forget the venerated age-old Jewish custom to say l'chaim and wish each other well over a shot glass of schnapps.


Source


As you can see, alcohol plays a role even in the most sacred of Jewish beliefs such as the passover. Saying that Jesus did not make alcoholic wine is just silly, as the expectation at a wedding would have been for proper wine. He was not a stooge and was well aware of all the customs, being a Jew himself.

Jesus also used wine in the last supper and the last supper custom with the mixing of wine and water along with breaking bread is replicated every single day around the globe at mass in the catholic church.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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babloyi
And again with the "unsafe" nonsense.

Oh stop it. This is basic knowledge.
Fermented drinks were staples with ancient peoples. The water wasn't always safe.
It was no big deal. They weren't uptight about alcohol like some uber-religious people are today.

And the History Channel documentary on Alcohol and the Bible is just fine. Watch and learn.

Beer was a staple drink in ancient Egypt
It helped prevent skurvy and was a good high calorie drink .. and it was safe.

Even Children Drank Beer in Ancient Egypt - It Was SAFE

The History of Alcoholic Beverages

The medicinal use of alcohol was mentioned in Sumerian and Egyptian texts dating from about 2100 BC. The Hebrew Bible recommends giving alcoholic drinks to those who are dying or depressed, so that they can forget their misery (Proverbs 31:6-7).

Wine was consumed in Classical Greece at breakfast or at symposia, and in the 1st century BC it was part of the diet of most Roman citizens. Both the Greeks and the Romans generally drank diluted wine (the strength varying from 1 part wine and 1 part water, to 1 part wine and 4 parts water).

In Europe during the Middle Ages, beer, often of very low strength, was an everyday drink for all classes and ages of people. A document from that time mentions nuns having an allowance of six pints of ale each day. Cider and pomace wine were also widely available; grape wine was the prerogative of the higher classes.


History of Drinks

In the 16th century it was not safe to drink water so for ordinary people drinking ale or beer was essential. Young children drank milk but usually only the poorest people drank water.


How Beer Saved the World

~ Tetracyclene was found in Egyptian bones from 3,000 years ago, and scientists couldn’t understand why this modern antibiotic (first documented in 1945) was so prevalent in the Egyptians. Researchers brewed beer according to an ancient Egyptian recipe and the result was rich in Tetracyclene. Modern day antibiotics themselves weren’t developed until 1928.

~ Beer was often consumed instead of water because it was safe to drink while not all water sources were safe. What made the beer safe to drink? The boiling process. Early peoples didn’t know this was the reason, but they did know that beer was good. It was brought on long voyages because even “safe” water would spoil over time. It kept the settlers alive on the Mayflower. They were headed for Virginia, but actually ran out of beer so they ended up landing at Plymouth Rock – a place they deemed suitable for brewing more beer.


Ancient Beer and Wine - Drank for Safety

Beer was made from barley, honey, herbs and spices, and was drunk in preference to water. This was likely due to the bacteria in the Nile water, which required boiling to purify it; part of the brewing process involved boiling, along side the fermentation process, served to kill off such bacteria and provide a safe beverage for daily consumption. Wine was the drink of the wealthy, as it was an exotic commodity in ancient times.


Jesus Drank Fermented Wine

Jesus drank. In fact, he drank wine—the fermented kind, not grape juice, as some will claim—and apparently he drank a fair amount of it.

Jesus apparently drank enough wine that he was accused of drinking to excess. In his own words he proclaimed, "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a glutton and a drunkard’" (Luke 7:34). So Jesus was accused of being a drunk.

The Greek word translated as "drunkard" in the above passage is oinopotes, which means a winebibber, one who drinks much wine. In fact, the first part of the word comes from the Greek word for wine, oinos, which occurs several times in the New Testament.

Some claim that Jesus drank grape juice or must (unfermented wine). But then why accuse him of being a drunkard? Other scriptural passages where oinos is found clearly indicate that, indeed, fermented wine, not grape juice, is being discussed.


Christianity Today

Wine was the common drink in ancient times. Some Bible scholars believe the drinking water in the Middle East was unreliable, often polluted or containing harmful microbes. The alcohol in wine would kill such bacteria.





edit on 4/5/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 07:30 PM
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HomerinNC
reply to post by tsingtao
 





yeah, but the koran has no contradictions, so it must be all truth, according to 1 bronze age guy who couldn't even write.


And thank you for the random comment that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP
edit on 4/5/2014 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)


hey, no problem! lol.

i was answering a post.

besides, i have addressed the op already.
but then someone brought up the fact that she did that while talking with some guy named diablo.

whatever her motive, i highly doubt it was a tribute to the devil.

i still think it was just a rap thing and she really doesn't know what it means. heck, i've used it too, as a sort of pantomime of what i see the rap kids do.

she rocked that song and they all loved it. just the fact she was a nun, is what has everyone's panties in a twist.

i have to tune my bass now, i am playing at church today.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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tsingtao

but then someone brought up the fact that she did that while talking with some guy named diablo.



That someone needs to watch the English subtitles lol. The rapper J-Ax was saying that he is the devil and she is the holy water. Then the female with the red hair says 'don't choose those devils' laughingly.

They were joking around at the fact that they have a nun on the show and that they are obviously somewhat less than holy. The reaction from J-Ax when she chooses him shows that he is not really a devil - the joy when she chose him and the tears that came as she spoke to all of the judges show a man who is sensitive and has respect for God and who a nun is.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 



Boiling it was part of the brewing process, so it was safe. Again, that is the explanation, but the whole thing is still a ridiculous MYTH.

No. It is not a myth. Nor is it ridiculous.
Beer/ale and wine have been around for thousands upon thousands of years.


Mankind has endured centuries of hard times whether it was foul plagues or epic wars; but one substance seems to be a key, and possibly contributing factor as well as the fastest-albeit temporary-solution to such strife. That substance is none other than the mystical liquid known as alcohol. It has always been there after a long day's work, and it is often involved (some way or another) in many pivotal periods throughout man's existence.

As man wandered through the prehistoric region known as Mesopotamia he only knew one thing-survival. Small groups or tribes roamed the land from temporary camp to temporary camp killing whatever animal that could feed, clothe or provide materials for weaponry or construction. These groups also gathered whatever plants were available and more importantly edible, but since they had a tendency to use up many of the resources that helped them maintain life there often came a time where they were forced to pick up and go. However, these tribes came to learn that cereal grain, which flourished in the region, was a reliable source of food even though it lacked in taste (Standage 12). And the tale of alcohol's fateful introduction to humanity begins.


Seriously. Beer and ale and wine are as ancient as any - ANY - of the known religions. All over the world, people figured it out.

One thing that really bothers me is the demonization of alcohol.

The lust for beer took the ancient world by storm as it called for greater quantities of cereal grain, and this meant man had to do more than simply gather it-he must grow it.

Since the region known as the Fertile Crescent was perfect for the cultivation of grain, beer flourished as did the societies that drank it. From 7000 BCE to 5000 BCE farming became an important part of many of the former hunter-gatherer tribes that began to settle down causing the populations to grow and civilizations to rise. Beer's role in such growth is not as acknowledged as it should be, but it was consumed by nearly every citizen of many of the great Mesopotamian and Egyptian civilizations whether they were young or old, well-to-do or of the peasant persuasion (Standage 39).
voices.yahoo.com...

And guess what? Singing and dancing also are venerated from forever ago.

This is just silly. People, human beings, have been drinking beer and wine since before history....
It just is what it is.
I genuinely feel bad for people who shun it as some horrible thing. It's fine. It's good.

As someone alluded to above, Ben Franklin had something to say about it: "In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is Freedom, in water there is bacteria.”



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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markosity1973
reply to post by babloyi
 

Perhaps to put an end to this silly debate of Jesus and alcohol, we should look to the Jewish view on alcohol. After all, Jesus was a Jew and had attended a Jewish wedding.


Wine and intoxicating beverages are a fascinating subject when viewed from the Torah's perspective. On one hand, we use wine for kiddush and havdallah on Shabbat and Jewish holidays, and many, many mitzvot are accompanied by a cup of wine. Blessings are recited on a cup of wine beneath the chupah (wedding canopy), at a circumcision, at a Pidyon Haben (the "Redemption of a Firstborn Son"), and let's not forget the four cups of wine we drink at the Passover seder. In the Scriptures, wine is described as "bringing joy to G‑d and man" (Judges 9:13). And, indeed, every sacrifice offered in the Holy Temple was accompanied by a wine libation. Because wine is considered to be the "king of beverages" the rabbis coined a special blessing to be recited exclusively on wine: the Hagafen blessing. And let us not forget the venerated age-old Jewish custom to say l'chaim and wish each other well over a shot glass of schnapps.


Source


As you can see, alcohol plays a role even in the most sacred of Jewish beliefs such as the passover. Saying that Jesus did not make alcoholic wine is just silly, as the expectation at a wedding would have been for proper wine. He was not a stooge and was well aware of all the customs, being a Jew himself.

Jesus also used wine in the last supper and the last supper custom with the mixing of wine and water along with breaking bread is replicated every single day around the globe at mass in the catholic church.



Yeah, just love your post, he was a Jew, we believe he existed yet Jews don't......amen



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 

reply to post by FlyersFan
 

reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 

Again, people seem to misunderstand my intent here. As I said before, aside from idle curiousity, it doesn't matter to me whether the Bible says Jesus drank alcoholic beverages or not. What I had initially said was that I had been unaware that there are Christian denominations that support abstinence, and use cogent Biblical justification.

Then it turned into some strange argument where some were seriously claiming that in ancient times people drank wine instead of water to quench their thirst, because water was unsafe. THAT is patent nonsense, and I can definitively say so. I'm not saying beer is not ancient, I'm not saying many cultures did not enjoy it daily, I'm not saying that the ancient jews did not drink alcoholic beverages, I'm certainly not getting into a debate about the morality or health benefits of alcoholic beverages.

I'm saying that throughout most of history and geography, people drank WATER as their main method to quench their thirst. Yes, there IS a myth about how the poor in London in the dark ages drank beer instead of water because the water was unsafe, but that is a myth, and besides, certainly would not apply to the Jesus's time, nor to the drink of wine (as I said before, beer's brewing process involved boiling, which made it safer- the Jews in Palestine at the time certainly didn't boil their grape juice, they just let it ferment).

Still, I'm glad most of you are now backing away from that position, or at least ignoring it. Either way, it really isn't within the scope of this topic, not that Jesus drinking alcoholic beverages was.

edit on 6-4-2014 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 



What I had initially said was that I had been unaware that there are Christian denominations that support abstinence, and use cogent Biblical justification.


At the Marriage Feast

...[p.147]... It was to honor Mary's trust, and to strengthen the faith of His disciples, that the first miracle was performed. The disciples were to encounter many and great temptations to unbelief. To them the prophecies had made it clear beyond all controversy that Jesus was the Messiah. They looked for the religious leaders to receive Him with confidence even greater than their own. They declared among the people the wonderful works of Christ and their own confidence in His mission, but they were amazed and bitterly disappointed by the unbelief, the deep-seated prejudice, and the enmity to Jesus, displayed by the priests and rabbis. The Saviour's early miracles strengthened the disciples to stand against this opposition.

In nowise disconcerted by the words of Jesus, Mary said to those serving at table, "Whatsoever He saith unto you, do it." Thus she did what she could to prepare the way for the work of Christ.

Beside the doorway stood six large stone water jars, and Jesus bade the servants fill these with water. It was done. Then as the wine was wanted for immediate use, He said, "Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast." Instead of the water with which the vessels had been filled, there flowed forth wine. Neither the ruler of the feast nor the guests generally were aware that the supply of wine had failed. Upon tasting that which the servants brought, the ruler found it superior to any he had ever before drunk, and very different from that served at the beginning of the feast. Turning to the bridegroom, he said, "Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now."

As men set forth the best wine first, then afterward that which is worse, so does the world with its gifts. That which it offers may please the eye and fascinate the senses, but it proves to be unsatisfying. The wine turns to bitterness, the gaiety to gloom. That which was begun with songs and mirth ends in weariness and disgust. But the gifts of Jesus are ever fresh and new. The feast that He provides for the soul never fails to give satisfaction and joy. Each new gift increases the capacity of the receiver to appreciate and enjoy the blessings of the Lord. He gives grace for grace. There can be no failure of supply. If you abide in Him, the fact that you receive a rich gift today insures the reception of a richer gift tomorrow. The words of Jesus to Nathanael express the law of God's dealing with the children of faith. With every fresh revelation of His love, He declares to the receptive heart, "Believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these." John 1:50.

The gift of Christ to the marriage feast was a symbol. The water represented baptism into His death; the wine, the shedding of His blood for the sins of the world. The water to fill the jars was brought by human hands, but the word of Christ alone could impart to it life-giving virtue. So with the rites which point to the Saviour's death. It is only by the power of Christ, working through faith, that they have efficacy to nourish the soul.

The word of Christ supplied ample provision for the feast. So abundant is the provision of His grace to blot out the iniquities of men, and to renew and sustain the soul.

At the first feast He attended with His disciples, Jesus gave them the cup that symbolized His work for their salvation. At the last supper He gave it again, in the institution of that sacred rite by which His death was to be shown forth "till He come." 1 Cor. 11:26. And the sorrow of the disciples at parting from their Lord was comforted with the promise of reunion, as He said, "I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." Matt. 26:29.

The wine which Christ provided for the feast, and that which He gave to the disciples as a symbol of His own blood, was the pure juice of the grape. To this the prophet Isaiah refers when he speaks of the new wine "in the cluster," and says, "Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it." Isa. 65:8.

It was Christ who in the Old Testament gave the warning to Israel, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Prov. 20:1. And He Himself provided no such beverage. Satan tempts men to indulgence that will becloud reason and benumb the spiritual perceptions, but Christ teaches us to bring the lower nature into subjection. His whole life was an example of self-denial. In order to break the power of appetite, He suffered in our behalf the severest test that humanity could endure. It was Christ who directed that John the Baptist should drink neither wine nor strong drink. It was He who enjoined similar abstinence upon the wife of Manoah. And He pronounced a curse upon the man who should put the bottle to his neighbor's lips. Christ did not contradict His own teaching. The unfermented wine which He provided for the wedding guests was a wholesome and refreshing drink. Its effect was to bring the taste into harmony with a healthful appetite.


As the guests at the feast remarked upon the quality of the wine, inquiries were made that drew from the servants an account of the miracle. The company were for a time too much amazed to think of Him who had performed the wonderful work. When at length they looked for Him, it was found that He had withdrawn so quietly as to be unnoticed even by His disciples.

The Desire Of Ages - chapter 15 'At the Marriage Feast' , Ellen White p.147-150'


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...By following these simple guidelines and avoiding substances such as tobacco and alcohol, they extend their life expectancy to equal the Japanese, who have the highest life expectancy in the world. Adventists are not only the most genetically diverse Blue Zone but also the only Zone not losing their longevity.

www.myhealthfixz.com...


Do a google or youtube search on 'Adventist Blue Zones'. SDAs make it into the final shortlist of longest living groups in the whole world. They are the only group that is not geographically contained (basically all SDAs outlive people from their own countries by about 10 years) and the only group whose longevity is increasing even further, not decreasing like the other finalist groups.

Seventh-Day Adventist are mostly all non-drinkers, they teach that this is what Jesus practiced (based on what I wrote above) and have coherent Biblical justification for it. SDAs have internally coherent theology on all aspects of teaching.
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People don't seem to realise that without an internally coherent theology then just on the issue of drinking alcohol alone one can make Jesus out to be a total hypocrite. Unfortunately, FlyersFan is at the point she feels she has to drop most of the Old Testament entirely. I personally don't know how people can believe in an omnipotent God yet think He is so weak that the vast majority of the Bible should be dismissed as myth in His name.
edit on 6-4-2014 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


Not trying to pick an argument here, but it seems pretty silly when someone tries to use the words of a prophet that were written prior to prove what suuposedly at a miracle which happened at an event that nobody alive today was at.

The new testament says wine. Isaiah says new wine.

It still proves nothing in my books.
edit on 6-4-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:03 AM
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researcher88

Yeah, just love your post, he was a Jew, we believe he existed yet Jews don't......amen



Well, for the longest time there was not even any physical proof that Pontius Pilate, the governer of Judea whom had Jesus crucified existed either. The romans did an extraordinary job of erasing anything to do with Jesus and Pontius pilate from their history books, until.....


In 1961 the archaeological world was taken back to the first century Roman province of Judea. A group of archaeologists, led by Dr. Antonio Frova were excavating an ancient Roman theater near Caesarea Maritima. Caesarea was a leading city in the first century located on the Mediterranean Sea. A limestone block was found there with a surprising inscription. The inscription, on three lines, reads: …]S TIBERIVM …PON]TIVS PILATVS …PRAEF]ECTVS IVDA[EA] The inscription is believed to be part of a larger inscription dedicating a temple in Caesarea to the emperor Tiberius. The inscription clearly states, “Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea.” The inscription is significant on several levels.


I'm not saying that as an Atheist you need to believe now, but it's an interesting thing to know that Pontius Pilate, the one mentioned in the new testament was real.

Source



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 06:01 AM
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babloyi
some were seriously claiming that in ancient times people drank wine instead of water to quench their thirst, because water was unsafe. THAT is patent nonsense,

Dude .. the only nonsense going on here is the denial of the facts by you. Crack open a history book. There were times and places where the water was unsafe. The ancient beer and wine were safe because of boiling and/or fermenting.

and I can definitively say so.

You are definitively wrong.

babloyi
people drank WATER as their main method to quench their thirst.

When they could. There were times and places when they didn't. AND IT WAS NO BIG DEAL.
Only the anti-fermented drink extremists of this day and age are trying to make it out like
Jesus didn't drink alcohol. But the fact is .. he did drink it. AND IT DOESN"T MATTER.


Scripture is very clear. Jesus partook of the Jewish holidays ... which included wine. He made wine at the Wedding of Cana. He drank wine and it was no big deal. Everyone did. The people of that time accused him of being a drunkard. He wasn't one, but he had to have been drinking fermented wine and not grape juice, otherwise they wouldn't have accused him of being a drunk.

I don't understand the paranoia about Jesus having drank fermented drinks. It was part of the way of life in that time period. IT WAS NO BIG DEAL. The only people making it a big taboo are modern day extremists.
edit on 4/6/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



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