Fort Hood shooter was taking "prescription drugs for depression and anxiety". SSRIs?

Ambien should never be given with antidepressants.

Anti depressants are used as sleep aids in themselves but the combination can cause some weird side affects

One of the warning for Ambien is.

In primarily depressed patients treated with sedative-hypnotics, worsening of depression, and suicidal thoughts and actions (including completed suicides), have been reported

risk for antidepressants

Suicide. The risk that antidepressants will incite violent or self-destructive actions is the subject of renewed controversy. Suicidal thoughts (although no suicides) in patients taking SSRIs were first reported in 1990, shortly after the drugs were introduced. An FDA committee rejected the association, and most mental health professionals accepted that conclusion. But the issue was never completely settled.

reply to post by corsair00


Just as Diabetes is not connected to the weather (eating habits ARE controllable) Manic depression and Schizophrenia arei not a result of a series of personal childhood trauma. Nice try though.

Wow, EVERYONE blaming the drugs not the people doing the actual attacks.
This is what our society has become, a bunch of 'blame everything but the actual person' people
Has everyone forgotten about personal responsibility?

There is some evidence that drugs may be a contributing factor to the violent actions of the people who are taking them.

Why just blatantly toss aside the possibility?

These are not pants, a rainstorm, or baby aspirin we're talking about here. These are some heavy drugs that affect brain chemistry and are prescribed to correct problems that already exist. And for many it's a lot of trial-and-error time to even get to the right dosage and frequency, time during which many don't feel very good or react properly or "like themselves."

To just casually dismiss how they can affect a person is almost criminal in itself.

reply to post by gladtobehere


In this case , as in Many others , Guns don't Kill People , Perscription Drugs do ......

HomerinNC
Wow, EVERYONE blaming the drugs not the people doing the actual attacks.
This is what our society has become, a bunch of 'blame everything but the actual person' people
Has everyone forgotten about personal responsibility?

For my part, i have no problem at all putting responsibility on the person whose finger was on the trigger. That is how it should be.

So, with that out of the way...what do we do with this data that shows that the medications we are putting people on could be contributing to the problem? And what do we do about the ignoring of that data by the FDA and drug companies?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Denial funded by big bucks can be a hard barrier to break through.

The people who need and could make sense of the real data don't seem to be able to get their hands on it.

Maybe all we're left with is:

1. Ignore or refuse to accept it as a possibility and instead argue about gun control or loosening existing restrictions as if that will fix things.
2. Lock ourselves and our children down or away to avoid someone who might go off.
3. Hope someone cares enough to learn more about these cases behind the scenes and improve the medication that so many more people seem to be needing everyday.
4. Find out why so many more people seem to be needing these medications everyday. See number 3.
5. Keep applying pressure and asking for answers to the questions.

Honestly? I don't know what we do. I think I need a Xanax. Peace.

ProfessorT
It really frustrates me when people blame killing sprees on mental health. I am currently undergoing treatment for PTSD, adjustment disorder, depression and anxiety. These illnesses make me no different to the next person. The root cause is America's stance on guns. You rarely ever hear about this sort of thing happening anywhere else and the frequency of shooting sprees taking place in the US is truly scary. Please do not paint mental health with this brush.

actually if you keep your ears open you DO see spree attacks in other countries. they are generally not as highly pointed out in the media though.

A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.

A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years.

No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.

Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system's ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness.

In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship.

www.cbc.ca...

so that was just one article. now you will notice some things that rather rebuff your statements. no guns were used China has rather strict gun control and so since guns are rather hard to get they go for other weapons instead. so you can't blame it on "America's stance on guns". GUNS ARE NOT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM. in fact they have such a problem with these sprees that they have taken steps to try to lessen the effects. "subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years."

but they also point out a factor that seems to be fairly constant, "Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system's ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness." so as you can see there is definitely a connection with mental health. sorry to frustrate you with the truth.

That brings up another good point generic.

Not only are spree attacks indicative of this type of incident. Probably millions more, smaller incidents are happening that are not reported or linked because they are "one offs." And as some stats show in some of the earlier linked articles, estimates are that only 1% are reported or linked just because they are not as dramatic as a spree shooting or stabbing.

reply to post by Cynic


I never actually said that all cases of manic depression and schizophrenia can be explained specifically by childhood traumas. But I am saying that we are HUMAN BEINGS - not MACHINES - therefore human emotions and experiences definitely play a huge role in how we react to things. The FDA freely admits that 80% of all illnesses humans can suffer from stem from STRESS. It becomes enormously complicated and there are many variables.

For example, many cases of manic depression occur to women shortly after child birth. There can be a severe depletion of specific hormones that can trigger a chemical imbalance. But you would want to find out about those specific hormones before going willy nilly onto psychiatric medications. I know of several women who have gone off the deep end from Post Partum Depression and gone onto SSRIs and ended up wanting to kill their children etc. My own mother started going crazy this way after I was born, so I know what I'm talking about.

I am saying that mental health aberrations do occur. There are anxieties and mood swings and mental confusions etc. But going the route of prescription medication is absolutely dangerous and is only successful to at most 50% of people treated. Of course, I do not know the exact statistics, but this argument of "well, it works for me therefore it should work for everyone" is a hair-brained argument. Likewise, you could say that my argument that the drugs are dangerous for many people, but not all, should also be discounted. But with safe alternatives, why risk it?

Do away with psychiatry and Big Pharma. Go natural.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Serious question - do you actually know anyone that has been prescribed any SSRI's?

This seems to be a fairly consistent counter argument from people that are nervous about the possibility of gun rights being revoked. It is a blame game - shift the blame from guns to medications - and maybe they will leave our guns alone.

I grew up in the Appalachian Mountains, so the majority of my family and family friends, are gun owners. This includes the incredibly irresponsible family members, one who shot himself in the stomach while cleaning a gun because he "knew it was unloaded", and the incredibly responsible, diligent gun owners who abhor laziness and carelessness when it comes to gun ownership.

Please do not mistake this post as being anti-gun, but *clears throat* WE HAVE GOT TO STOP BLAMING MEDICATIONS.

You realize that just because someone is prescribed medication, does not mean that they take it regularly.

Isn't it possible that instead of these medications causing the person to commit these crimes, maybe the mental illness they are taking the meds for, is one (of likely many) reason(s) behind the crime.

I see this argument in no different light than left vs right, dem vs repub. It is gun owners vs people on prescription meds, and it is a ploy that people are playing into daily, and it's working quite well to keep us divided. It seems like a vicious circle to me -

Inhibit people from seeking medication and therapy when they need it --> People ignore mental illness and allow it to drive them to brink of mental capacity --> People use tools at their disposal to commit atrocious crimes --> They blame the tools used in crime --> We divert blame to people who are on medications and seeking therapy --> Inhibiting more people from seeking medication and therapy...

And we play into it after every single violent gun crime we read about or see on television. SMH.


Side note - And please do not think that I am saying all depressed people, anxious people, persons with schizophrenia, etc. are criminals. That is far, FAR from the truth, but as a person who has suffered from mental illness, I can not praise my SSRI medication any higher. But I take it regularly and do not miss doses.

reply to post by Bachrk


Stopping a benzo suddenly has a much more dreaded effect than psychosis! They can cause seizure and death if a person is not weaned off of them properly...

Pax

reply to post by jrflipjr


There is a wonderful treatment available for PTSD, especially for vets!! It's not a drug it is called EMDR if you google it you can find out everything you want to know...I do not want to derail the thread.

Thanks,
Pax

reply to post by blupblup


Except our own Military on bases when they needed to protect themselves!!! Geesh! Guns do not go off by themselves and all people taking SSRI's are not maniacs! You have to use common sense before making broad sweeping statements...

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Has it ever occurred to you the reason people are taking these meds in the first place is because they are mentally unstable!!
Perhaps the mental illness made them go on a rampage and NOT the drug!!

reply to post by jacktorrance


Foolish, foolish argument. Totally insidious.

If the drugs were working, why would they go out and kill a bunch of people? Because of their illness? But they are on medications that are supposed to be treating the illness - so obviously that isn't working, is it? Why are all documented school shootings linked to people on medications? Just because many people take the pills and DO NOT have an adverse reaction does not imply that adverse reactions NEVER happen.

This is called a "black and white" thinking error. To assume that something is either black or white. That is not the case.

Yes, many people take these pills. Everyone knows a Suzie Q who takes Prozac and seems to be feeling "much better". Fine. But it's always those people who jump in and say that these pills couldn't possibly be causing any problems, just because they know Suzie Q takes them and seems totally fine. Again - thinking error.

Sometimes things go wrong. Is this not totally obvious? It is written on the side of the dang pill bottles. All kinds of warnings. Of course that happens. We are a society of billions of people.

Let's get real here!

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Well, I am Canadian - so... lucky me!

palmalBlue2
reply to post by KingIcarus

 

I agree that its not just about the pills, but the quality of care and most importantly the shortage/lack of good care in this country.

I'm not sure how its all done in the military, but civilian mental healthcare in this country is past broken to the point of being reactive instaead of proactive.

not just in the US, but Canada as well. i wonder if it is all of the "west". this "pill popping" culture is a huge problem as far as i can see. it is a quick fix for many problems instead of trying to actually deal with the underlying causes. i was put on SSRI's years ago, why? because i was suffering from depression for multiple reasons, due to pain from an injury, i was broke from being off work, (my sick pay i had accumulated over years ran out), yet not qualifying for assistance, my job was threatening to give my job away due to the fact i had been off too long. in fact i had tried to go back even tho i was still in pain, (at their insistence) and with the "light duties" (ha ha ha) they gave me i was in so much pain i wanted to die. so after a perhaps 15 minute session with a psychiatrist, i was put on SSRI's. wouldn't they have been further ahead instead of sticking me on meds, to actually try to fix the problem that caused the whole thing? that being to deal with the actual injury that was the base cause of everything? but no thanks to Canada's awesome (not) socialized medicine, that did not cover something i needed called physiotherapy, i was stuck on "anti depressants" and "pain killers" (hello opiates, thank god i had a drug plan at work otherwise i would have been really screwed due to the price, come to think of it the psychiatrist asked if i had a drug plan before prescribing it). and instead of being able to properly deal with the injury then, i am now stuck with it permanently it seems, and get to take nice muscle relaxants (which have some of the wonderfully bad side effects as SSRI's. though at least i haven't suffered from them, at least yet, and for which i actually had to leave the country to even find that much help ). i have become a wonderful cash cow to the pharmaceutical industry. i think i see a problem Houston. i rather suspect a big part of the issue is the pharmaceutical industry they don't make money by healing people, and the government saves a lot of money since drugs are not covered by them, where actual medical care does. figure the same for insurance companies in the US (pills are cheaper than proper treatment), call it a win win except for the patient.

those SSRI's were nasty stuff. i was trapped in my head in a lot of ways rather like a spectator with no control. i became so docile for the most part that i just give a excrement about almost everything. a bill is due? who cares, even though in my head it was, "really need to take care of that", but no action. my normally top notch work slipped, since i wasn't "concerned" about anything, the boss complaining about it had no effect, i just didn't care. friends and family even noted that it sometimes seemed i really had no emotions at all, even though i would smile and even laugh at stuff, i looked fine but i really wasn't, i just wasn't me. i also became suggestible, i would do things i normally wouldn't even think of doing at a simple suggestion, all the while in my head going "hey WTF". i did manage a couple times to mention my concerns to the doctor when i went in for a prescription renewal, but all he did was keep prescribing it, and telling me i needed to take it. it was quite scary in a lot of ways. it is lucky i did not kill anyone a few times. one time i had an issue with someone and a co-worker said something about i should get even with them, so i did. luckily someone noticed what i had done and fixed it, so no one got injured. there were times on the highway where someone would be a jerk and i would react badly, again lucky no one got hurt. stupid stuff would cause severe over reactions yet the whole time I KNEW what i was doing, i just didn't have the power to stop it, there were a few times when i would fly of the handle, i would regain some control, but not every time. it was quite scary living like that. after a couple years of this, i lost my doctor, and thanks to not being able to find one who was allowed to take patients, i couldn't renew the prescriptions for them. so i ran out and that was it. i came to be myself once again after a bit of time, and have vowed never to voluntarily take that crap again, i never want to be in the position of knowing full well what i was doing and be powerless to stop myself. to literally have no self control.

when it comes to these killing sprees, if they were on SSRI's i have no doubt that the meds were likely a HUGE contributing factor. as for them suicideing, i have often wondered if they had one of those moments where they regained control, and knowing what they did killed themselves. SSRI's can be DEADLY, they should be BANNED from use, or if not, only used on people who are locked up safe and constantly monitored for problems. interesting that to control things like depression, they give you something that makes you look fine, but in reality can be like a bomb waiting for a time and place to go off. ------------

reply to post by corsair00

Just because many people take the pills and DO NOT have an adverse reaction does not imply that adverse reactions NEVER happen.

Where did I say that taking the pills never gives an adverse reaction?

I did not say that anywhere in my post.

There are huge lists of side effects for most prescription drugs - prescribed for mental and physical illnesses. It doesn't mean that no one should take the medication, simply because there is a possibility of side effects.

If the drugs were working, why would they go out and kill a bunch of people?

I specifically said that it is possible that the people prescribed these medications are NOT taking the medications as they should. If you are experiencing paranoid delusions or auditory and visual hallucinations without the medication, it is possible that those delusions are a factor in why you committed the crime. That has nothing to do with the medication you are prescribed, and everything to do with the fact that you didn't take it.

I am not saying that is obviously the case in all of these scenarios. I am certainly not saying that side effects of medications cannot be dangerous or that they should be overlooked. Ibuprofen can lead to Stevens-Johnsons syndrome in rare cases, but that doesn't mean ibuprofen doesn't help the majority of people that take it for headaches. I am saying, do not demonize all SSRI drugs because shooters have been prescribed them. A prescription is just a piece of paper, it doesn't mean the person is taking the meds.

I have severe clinical depression, anxiety, and mild thought disorder, and the VA has me on a mix of Prozac, Abilify, Wellbutrin, and Xanax. I told my doc that I do not like being on all these meds, and since therapy really does me no good, I wanted to speak to him about alternative ways of combating my mental illness. Mainly, I wanted to try ECT (also know as electro-shock therapy, which has a higher rate of long term success than pills). After talking to various people who have had ECT done, I think it holds much promise and desperately needed relief, without having to take a bunch of crappy meds the rest of my life. Yet the doc wouldn't refer me. Said meds are better, and wanted to try different meds. All had side effects that I found unacceptable, and I was tired of going through the whole psychiatric drug list. I've brought it up many times. The refusal to refer me for ECT is typical of the whole mental health field, I've learned. Despite the fact that ECT and cingulotomy (modern day lobotomy) are about the closest things to a permanent cure we have, doctors still insist on medication. Just lends more weight to the idea that medicine is not here to cure anything, but "managing" people with medication for their whole lives. That's where the money is at.

In my experience, there really is precious little science behind psychiatry. If you read the descriptions on many of these medications, the mechanism of how they work is "unknown". Yet they claim these meds work. It is no wonder a lot of people flip out on SSRIs and other drugs. I mean, if the makers and doctors have no clue how this crap works, then why the hell are they passing it around like candy?

The whole system is a joke. The diagnostics process is a joke.