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Nato's Eastern Europe build-up plans alarm Russia

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posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:46 AM
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XcathdraThose forces are not there for training. They are their because of Eastern Ukraine. Russian forces in the south are there for southern Ukraine.

Is it illegal in any way to have Russian forces inside Russia?


XcathdraRespectfully I get the impression you are not familiar with diplomatic relations involving military deployment (and I am being serious about that impression. No offense).

Like US troops in South America in the 50's/60's/70's....and so on?
Like the invasion on a part of Cuban territory?
Like the invasion of Iraq?




The United States Invasion of Panama, code-named Operation Just Cause, was the invasion of Panama by the United States in December 1989. It occurred during the administration of U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and ten years after the Torrijos–Carter Treaties were ratified to transfer control of the Panama Canal from the United States to Panama by 1 January 2000.





Operation Urgent Fury was a 1983 United States-led invasion of Grenada, a Caribbean island nation with a population of about 91,000 located 100 miles (160 km) north of Venezuela, that resulted in a U.S. victory within a matter of weeks. Triggered by a bloody military coup which had ousted a four-year revolutionary government, the invasion resulted in a restoration of constitutional government. Media outside the U.S. covered the invasion in a negative outlook despite the OAS request for intervention (on the request of the U.S. government), Soviet and Cuban presence on the island and the presence of American medical students at the True Blue Medical Facility.





The 1954 Guatemalan coup d’état (18–27 June 1954) was the CIA covert operation that deposed President Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán (1950–54), with a paramilitary invasion by an anti–Communist army, titled Operation PBSUCCESS.


You're not LIKE CNN - YOU ARE CNN!
LAST REPLY TO YOU.
HYPOCRITE!




posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


so Russia is not allowed to move forces between it's borders?

is it military buildup to have few thousands troops in the base and area where the Black Sea Fleet is?

in Transnistria Russia have some troops, nothing to worry about (
:hey


you failed to mention that one of the first moves of COUP IMPOSED Ukrainian government was to outlaw official use of Russian language in Ukraine... Why would somebody do that as one of their first move?

and you are also trying to say that Russia should have consult with coup imposed government that they don't even recognize considering their troops in Crimea?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:04 AM
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IamTheManWithThePlan
Is it illegal in any way to have Russian forces inside Russia?

I never stated it didn't so im not sure what your point is. Using your logic the Russians have no business being concerned about NATO deployments. They are after all being deployed inside NATO countries. Russia also had no business being upset with Ukraine for allowing joint exercises. They are after all being held inside Ukraine.




IamTheManWithThePlan
Like US troops in South America in the 50's/60's/70's....and so on?
Like the invasion on a part of Cuban territory?
Like the invasion of Iraq?

So you don't understand the diplomatic issues involved - check




The United States Invasion of Panama, code-named Operation Just Cause, was the invasion of Panama by the United States in December 1989. It occurred during the administration of U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and ten years after the Torrijos–Carter Treaties were ratified to transfer control of the Panama Canal from the United States to Panama by 1 January 2000.

Do you really want to get into a contest on which country has done what?
Russia invaded Chechnya x 2
Russia invaded Afghanistan
Russia invaded / occupied Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Germany, Austria, Hungary................/quote]

Neither side will win your attempted moral high ground position.



IamTheManWithThePlan
You're not LIKE CNN - YOU ARE CNN!
LAST REPLY TO YOU.
HYPOCRITE!

Nothing like failing to make a point only to make a post with absolutely no relevance in the manner you portrayed, ending in the "im taking my marbles and going home".

Here is an idea - refute the information. You obviously think you are right, so support it.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I would just like to add that Im sure that USA has higher body count...

if that means anything to you...

everybody are yelling about Russia but how many people have died?

what was international community doing when USA was on a killing spree?

that is why I said I would like to see less bias and you have proven to be one of those - paid or freelancer - biased posters.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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demus
so Russia is not allowed to move forces between it's borders?

They sure can, just as NATO can deploy their forces inside NATO countries and just as Ukraine can invite NATO in to hold war games.



demus
is it military buildup to have few thousands troops in the base and area where the Black Sea Fleet is?

There are 20-25 thousand Russian troops in Crimea, which is Ukrainian territory.



demus
in Transnistria Russia have some troops, nothing to worry about (
:hey

Sorry Russia already played that card when he invaded Ukraine.

Besides, NATO actions are just training... Nothing at all for Russia to be concerned about.



demus
you failed to mention that one of the first moves of COUP IMPOSED Ukrainian government was to outlaw official use of Russian language in Ukraine... Why would somebody do that as one of their first move?

And you failed to research that topic.

The agreement that was signed (yanukovych) reinstated the 2004 Constitution immediately. The 2004 Constitution has a streamlined method for impeachment. The votes were held, with Yanukovych's own party voting against him, for impeachment.

He had been under investigation since he had one election thrown out because he rigged it.

Simply stating it was a coup does not make it one. Even more so when his removal was done in compliance of the Ukrainian Constitution.

However, tell me how a coup did not occur in Crimea when the "masked gunmen" stormed the government building and removed the elected Crimean official's only to replace them with hand picked people who were not elected.


yanukovych
and you are also trying to say that Russia should have consult with coup imposed government that they don't even recognize considering their troops in Crimea?
There was no coup and yes, the agreement requires Russia to notify the Ukrainian government to make military changes in Crimea and Ukraine must approve the move.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:21 AM
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demus
I would just like to add that Im sure that USA has higher body count...

Not even close. Russia holds that distinction when Stalin went on his killing sprees, culminating with the present.



demus
if that means anything to you...

Of course it concerns me. I would love to see a diplomatic solution however Russia's actions have all but destroyed that option. However, if it comes down the same same options that were present to the west in WWII, I would chose to make a stand against Russia from the start. The last time we tried to remain out of the fighting / Europe trying to appease, resulted in a world war.

I don't want one of those either, but whats the alternative? What happens if Russia invades the south and east of Ukraine? Will you still find Russian actions justifiable?



demus
everybody are yelling about Russia but how many people have died?

The number of people who died in the Russian invasion / occupation of Ukraine is the exact same number of people that Russia claims was killed by non ethnic Russians in the east and south of Ukraine.



demus
what was international community doing when USA was on a killing spree?

No idea what killing spree the US was in. Please clarify.



demus
that is why I said I would like to see less bias and you have proven to be one of those - paid or freelancer - biased posters.

Ironic since you are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. Then you follow it up with making accusations about me with absolutely nothing to support your claim. If I am wrong then there is no reason you and the others cant produce evidence supporting your claim.

Its not enough to just dismiss it and hope no one calls you out.

Is there any particular reason and some others are incapable of discussion without resorting to name calling / making accusations?

If you and the others have nothing to contribute to this thread then please move on or start your own thread about the issues you raise here. I am getting tired of thread drifts.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:30 AM
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demus
reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Putin said he will protect Russian citizens (if needed) by all means necessary.

what would USA do for it's citizens in similar situation?

I believe same or more...


Protect Russian citizens from what? Those Nazi fascists foaming at the mouth? I don't see them anywhere either. Yet everyone is quick to gulp down Russia's story. Please Russia is just as much a hypocrite. Guess what almost everywhere the US has been so have they. Didn't they roll into Afghanistan too? They land grab too, they lie too. They go back oin their signed and sealed documents as well.

There was no civil war, no Nazis, or crisis, that needed stopping. Don't use Russia being surrounded by NATO as an excuse. NATO is not in Russian territory. Now you say Russia is in its own borders allowing them to mass troops wherever they want. OK that's fine. NATO is not in Russian territory they have every right to want to gather more allies. Anywhere in the world. Isn't it a global market now. Whoever offers the best deal you buy from. Ukraine can choose whoever they want to ally with no matter how close to Russia.

Now I don't condone the coup of an elected official. However, the majority of both the government and the people voted and rose up against the president's constant bowing to Russia. Isn't that what ATS clamors about. The people rising up and taking back their governments? Make up your minds.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


sorry to inform you but Crimea is not part of Ukraine anymore.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:38 AM
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about Ukrainian neo - nazis:




On March 13, 2014, Ukraine’s national legislative body Supreme Rada (currently unconstitutional), still at the gunpoint of “self-defense of Maidan,” adopted a resolution on the creation of a “National Guard” of 60,000 stormtroopers, whose jobs will include the protection of “public order” (modeled on the German “new order” over its occupied territories) and the suppression of “disturbances” (popular protests) during a state of emergency, as well as assistance to defend the borders (from Russia, naturally), and participation in military operations in the event of war. The“self-defense of Maidan” and Right Sector will make up the backbone of these armed forces.


Who is in Charge of Ukraine today? Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis

Ukraine’s Inconvenient Neo-Nazis




This renewed disorder has complicated the storytelling of the major U.S. news media by challenging the sweetness-and-light narrative preferred by U.S. policymakers. The New York Times, the Washington Post and other leading news outlets have worked hard to airbrush the well-established fact that neo-Nazi militants spearheaded the coup on Feb. 22.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


is there any difference between Russia saying the troops are there only for exercises and USA/NATO saying that deploying troops/equipment to the specific area is only for training...?

for me there is no difference.

are you unbiased?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by demus
 


That's no better than someone else grabbing headlines of Russian troops massing on the border. Anyone on either side of the aisle can find a biased source to back their opinions on any topic. Doesn't make it true. Show me the Nazi's in the streets beating ethnic Russians. I've seen the photos of Russian troops beating Ukrainians though. I've seen them take over facilities in a country not their own, at the time.

We can play the propaganda game all day. The only real fact is Russia did invade Ukraine and took back a region that belonged to Ukraine. Its backed by documents signed by all parties involved. Anything beyond that is opinion , falsehood, or misinformation. We can dress it nice and butter it up. Doesn't change the fact BRIC/NATO opposite sides of the same coin. The rules change based on who has the power. Same game as always.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:59 AM
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Only at ATS would something like the Russian troop build up on the Ukraine border that both the West and Russia say is there (for different reasons) would people be doubting it is there.

It is like that idiot Ukrainian ex-President the Russian used as an excuse to grab Crimea. Now he knows he has been played and says Crimea is a part of Ukraine not Russia. A little late now.

As for NATO troops in the east? Well of course countries that have been invaded and occupied by Russia on a regular basis want some back up. And Russia has no one but itself to blame. Those countries are not stupid. They have managed to figure out that when and foriegn army ends up in your streets and declares a vote that does even allow you the option of keeping things as they were much less letting anybody put up an opposition campaign, it is an invasion and occupation. Only at ATS would that be considered a good solid vote with nothing fishy at all lol.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by MrStyx
 









posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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of course Russia shouldn't be concerned about NATO...

edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: (no reason given)



edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: filling the gaps in knowledge



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:03 AM
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I've read the link in the OP and can only find one actual quote from Russia.


"We not only expect answers, but answers... based fully on respect for the rules we agreed on," he said.


Which part of this qualifies as 'alarm' again? An interesting spin on one small line.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by demus
 


Well played, but as stated with biased sources we can play the propaganda game all day. There are many more videos on youtube and actual news outlets displaying Russian troops doing similar or worse. RT lost a few news anchors over this whole situation. You know your waist deep in it, when your own mouthpieces fail to swallow the Russian kool-aid.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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MrSpad
Only at ATS would that be considered a good solid vote with nothing fishy at all lol.


A good solid vote is one that uses PAPER ballots and glass ballot boxes that all can see through. Like the way it was done in Crimea. Not electronic voting machines that can be hacked, like it is done here.

But of course only at ATS would we realize that. Which is why I don't understand wtf YOU are doing here. Oh yeah, well maybe I do.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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of course, not everybody believe NATO is invincible, in fact - the power shift is already in process.

is it good?

I don't know; but that seems to be reality.




posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by demus
 


No they shouldn't. Half those neighbors are broke with no armies to speak of. Russia has BRIC with a superior economy. Show the rest of the map with China's, India's, and Brazils influence. Latin America, and Africa they look much different as well. BRIC has the next powerhouse economy and the people power to match. So whats Russia scared of?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by MrStyx
 


you asked me to show you Neo - nazis beating Russians in the streets which I did.

would you like me to try and find some videos where they are doing the same in the parks, bars or other venues?

first you said there are no neo nazis threatening Russians and now the position changed to: "Russians are doing the same"

so what is your position actually?




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