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Nato's Eastern Europe build-up plans alarm Russia

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posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 04:24 AM
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Nato's Eastern Europe build-up plans alarm Russia


is pressing Nato to explain its plans to beef up military presence in Eastern Europe, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.

"We not only expect answers, but answers... based fully on respect for the rules we agreed on," he said.

Nato earlier said it would reinforce the alliance's defences in Eastern Europe following Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

Nato also halted all civilian and military co-operation with Russia.

Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea region was the gravest threat to European security for a generation.

At a summit in Brussels, the alliance also expressed concerns over a massive build-up of Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern border, amid fears of invasion.

Moscow is believed to have massed tens of thousands of troops on Ukraine's border.


Click link for remainder of article...

This is turning into the keystone cops verse the cast of heehaw...

The hypocrisy is outstanding on the part of the Russians. When Russia invades / occupies a part of Ukraine while making statements about the illegal collapse of the Soviet Union and reclaiming land they think is Russian....

Gee, I cant imagine why NATO is doing a reshuffle.

Its ok for Russia to mass troops on the border of Ukraine, while also increasing military levels bordering the Baltic states and Finland but its not ok for neighboring countries to do the same?

The Russians have gone absolutely insane in their thought process.

I think NATO should give the Russians their own answer back - No worries, NATO is just conducting military drills.




posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 04:41 AM
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Despite all the talk about Russia "massing" troops on the border, there is absolutely zero evidence for it. NBC even sent their on the ground team on a 1200 mile road trip over several days, looking for these massed troop concentrations and speaking to locals along the way. Guess what? Nobody has seen anything of these fictional troop buildups and the news crew saw nothing.

They pulled the same stunt in the build up to the Iraq war, claiming Iraq was massing troops and tanks on the Saudi border, and used it as an excuse to attack. To this day not a single satellite image, which is what they based their info on, has surfaced proving the story, but a reporter at the time who bought images from a commercial satellite operator clearly showed that it was BS and there were no troops and tanks massing along the border.

As far as "Invasions" go, it's all been a bit of a damp squib, despite the western reporting and fear mongering of the politicians.
Let us not forget that the whole situation was created, over a long time, by the US and NATO (lets face it, we all know who runs NATO) pressing further and further along Russia's borders. Would any other nation accept this? Would the US stand idly by and allow another nation to station troops, attack aircraft and missiles along it's borders? I think we all know the answer to that one!

Bottom line, the people of Crimea voted to remain Russian and break away from Ukraine and it's unelected government. Isn't that what the politicians keep telling us though, that it's democracy at work and the people must have the right to self determination? Obviously it's just empty talk and people opting to do the right thing for themselves WILL NOT be tolerated.

Simply put, this is all nothing more than politics and scare mongering to kick off more military spending. After all, Obama has already criticized Europe over it's lack of Military spending. By that, I guess he means buying more crap from the US and borrowing more money from the bankers to pay for it. A new cold war will certainly increase borrowing and military spending as they need to protect us all. I always thought a cheaper option is to put a bullet between the eyes of the war mongers and let the people just get along without them.


There we go, rant over!



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


you are right because everybody knows USA and Russia are neighboring countries, at least across Bering strait...

(neighbors doing the same, phew.)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Britguy
 


You're right. I'd also like to see evidence of this alleged buildup. 40,000 - 80,000 troops "they say"...so far all I've seen is a couple of home videos of some tanks on trains.....



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:05 AM
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You think the Russian security services let anybody with a camera anywhere near their staging areas?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:11 AM
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I think this has been the plan all along.....To target Russia ! I believe that the Syrian uprising could have been started to remove Assad and install a puppet who would have closed the Russian base in Tartus, and again in the Ukraine to close the base in Sevestopol.....severly limiting Russia's ability to project outward. And I think this could all stem from Putins calls to strengthen its military, So the West would sooner confront Russia now..... Bit of a dangerous game really, considering Russia's nuclear stockpile.
edit on 3-4-2014 by ken10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by Britguy
 


I think the issue with locating Russian forces is where they are looking. The term massing on the border does not mean all of their military is right at the boundary. Doing that can result in their units being identified before hostilities break out, allowing the defender to plan / move appropriate equipment to counter.

While they drove 1200 miles, it was not into Russia but along the border. Ask the Russians if journalists can explore the area 50-100 miles inside Russian territory and see what happens.

As for release of how they know. When 2 countries are close to open warfare, are you really going to tip your hand (from either perspective - Russia / west) about your level of intelligence capabilities?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:42 AM
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ken10
I think this has been the plan all along.....To target Russia ! I believe that the Syrian uprising could have been started to remove Assad and install a puppet who would have closed the Russian base in Tartus, and again in the Ukraine to close the base in Sevestopol.....severly limiting Russia's ability to project outward. And I think this could all stem from Putins calls to strengthen its military, So the West would sooner confront Russia now..... Bit of a dangerous game really, considering Russia's nuclear stockpile.
edit on 3-4-2014 by ken10 because: (no reason given)


Russia has been going down the road of revitalizing its military since Putin first took office a decade ago. Secondly, when it comes to war, Obama does not have the stones or backbone to send military in, opting instead to use drones.

Obama is the last person I expect to actually commit to another war.

If anything his disaster of an administration is helping Russia and Syria by being one big mass of quivering indecision. The moment Obama set the "red line" on chemicals weapons in Syria, and then failed to act, was the moment Putin realized the plans to reinvent the Soviet Union could go forward with success.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:44 AM
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Painterz
You think the Russian security services let anybody with a camera anywhere near their staging areas?


Some journalists have already been detained by Russian border guards who questioned them. They were released after about 2 hours.

One would think that after a decade of war the press would know that a military buildup does not happen on the border line.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:51 AM
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Xcathdra

ken10
I think this has been the plan all along.....To target Russia ! I believe that the Syrian uprising could have been started to remove Assad and install a puppet who would have closed the Russian base in Tartus, and again in the Ukraine to close the base in Sevestopol.....severly limiting Russia's ability to project outward. And I think this could all stem from Putins calls to strengthen its military, So the West would sooner confront Russia now..... Bit of a dangerous game really, considering Russia's nuclear stockpile.
edit on 3-4-2014 by ken10 because: (no reason given)


Russia has been going down the road of revitalizing its military since Putin first took office a decade ago. Secondly, when it comes to war, Obama does not have the stones or backbone to send military in, opting instead to use drones.

Obama is the last person I expect to actually commit to another war.

If anything his disaster of an administration is helping Russia and Syria by being one big mass of quivering indecision. The moment Obama set the "red line" on chemicals weapons in Syria, and then failed to act, was the moment Putin realized the plans to reinvent the Soviet Union could go forward with success.


clearly, revitalizing Russia's army was the only logical decision that they could make.

I don't know how some posters here and people in general tend to talk about another countries "military buildup" like something terrible and threatening but when it comes to their own country than it is "defence force", "enough to protect our interests" and so on.

I would prefer less bias.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I've been a reader here on ATS for a long, long time.
Back in the day, it was such a great place to get alternative news.
Was only provoked to register awhile ago, in order to reply to some blatant lies.

NOW I don't even bother.
People like you have turned this place into another CNN-like website, pushing US' Government propaganda, and spreading hate-speech towards 'the enemies' of the US (mostly: Russia, China, and Iran)
I don't even visit here that often these days.

But MAYBE THAT WAS THE PLAN ALL ALONG?

I'd say just
, but I know you'll never stop.
So, by all means - carry on. Spread that mainstream media lies here too.
Hey, if people buy it - it's their loss.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:59 AM
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demus
clearly, revitalizing Russia's army was the only logical decision that they could make.

Well sure.. I don't blame them for wanting to modernize their military.




demus
I don't know how some posters here and people in general tend to talk about another countries "military buildup" like something terrible and threatening but when it comes to their own country than it is "defence force", "enough to protect our interests" and so on.

I would prefer less bias.


I'm not sure if you are saying I am biased or?

When you hold large war games / military maneuvers it generally will be a buildup of forces. Normally it would not be a big deal, however when you take into account Russian forces invading Crimea I can understand why a buildup is a concern. Even more so when Putin laid out his thoughts on Ethnic Russians in foreign countries that "belong to Russia".

When you look at the entire picture, military maneuvers / training can be something completely different. There is no reason to have that many military units still in the area when Ukraine barely has an army.

Also people seem to be either forgetting or ignoring Crimea, where there are 20-25k members of the Russian armed forces. I have no idea what their military strength is in Moldova (Transnistria).



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:03 AM
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IamTheManWithThePlan
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I've been a reader here on ATS for a long, long time.
Back in the day, it was such a great place to get alternative news.
Was only provoked to register awhile ago, in order to reply to some blatant lies.

NOW I don't even bother.
People like you have turned this place into another CNN-like website, pushing US' Government propaganda, and spreading hate-speech towards 'the enemies' of the US (mostly: Russia, China, and Iran)
I don't even visit here that often these days.

But MAYBE THAT WAS THE PLAN ALL ALONG?

I'd say just
, but I know you'll never stop.
So, by all means - carry on. Spread that mainstream media lies here too.
Hey, if people buy it - it's their loss.


Ah yes.. the typical attack the poster when you cannot refute the facts. The problem with people like you is you would rather rant because you don't agree with my position. I noticed that you did not bother to explain what information in my post you have issues with.

How about you try to engage in that manner instead of dragging the thread off topic because you don't care for someone elses opinion.

If you have relevant info, then by all means, post it and we can debate / talk about it. If all you are going to do is complain, start your own thread and post there.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


OK, and where is the proof of "buildup"?

and what is considered "close to the border"?

and who is decide that Russia don't have any reason to have "that many troops" in a specific location?

so what are we actually talking about here?

Putin said he will protect Russian citizens (if needed) by all means necessary.

what would USA do for it's citizens in similar situation?

I believe same or more...



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:11 AM
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I wasn't gonna reply, but...
Just for the sake of argument:
1. Did you mention THE REFERENDUM in Crimea, where THE CRIMEAN PEOPLE THEMSELVES decided to join Russia?
2. Did you mention that Nuland leaked tape, where she said whom she preferred to run the Ukraine Government (hint: it's the guy that actually became the Ukrainian Prime Minister after a VIOLENT COUP D'ETAT)
3. Did you mention the Coup D'Etat itself? (you know, where the LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT was ousted by violent means?)
edit on 3-4-2014 by IamTheManWithThePlan because: The post didn't register correctly



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


How dare the rest of Europe and the world react to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Obviously Russia has the best of intentions and is only trying to help.


Help us all glow in the dark for the next 200 years more like!


Not that there will be many of us left aside from the fools responsible safely tucked away in their DUMBs!

edit on 3-4-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:16 AM
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XcathdraHow about you try to engage in that manner instead of dragging the thread off topic because you don't care for someone elses opinion.
If you have relevant info, then by all means, post it and we can debate / talk about it. If all you are going to do is complain, start your own thread and post there.


I did that in number of occasions.
People like you try to defocus the arguments, and push the MSM/Govt 'truth'.
As I said previously - NOW I don't even bother.
If people here can see through your lies - great. If they can't...I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM.
I truly do.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:24 AM
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andy06shake
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


How dare the rest of Europe and the world react to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Obviously Russia has the best of intentions and is only trying to help.


Help us all glow in the dark for the next 200 years more like!


Not that there will be many of us left aside from the fools responsible safely tucked away in their DUMBs!

edit on 3-4-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)


invasion that never happened!

propaganda is yelling invasion but there is no invasion!

tell me when did invasion happened?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:28 AM
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Ooook.. apparently you did not want to read the source info.


demus
OK, and where is the proof of "buildup"?


But Mr Lavrov accused Nato of exaggerating the importance of Russian troop movements on the borders of eastern Ukraine.

He said Russia had the right to move troops within its territory and that the forces currently near the border would return to their permanent bases after completing military exercises.
Germany: Putin says he's pulling some troops back from Ukrainian border
They admitted they have troops on the border. Secondly, there are 20-25k troops in Crimea. How many Russian elements are in Transnistria? So far one battalion has been "moved off the border". A battalion is roughly 1200 men, however Russia may use a different layout resulting in a larger or smaller number.

The Russians are refusing to remove their forces. Take note they are not disputing troop strength. They keep reiterating its a harmless military training exercise. Putin told Merkel he would pull back forces, and that has not happened.

Those forces are not there for training. They are their because of Eastern Ukraine. Russian forces in the south are there for southern Ukraine.



demus
and what is considered "close to the border"?

Asked and answered - I would say, again, 50-100 miles.



demus
and who is decide that Russia don't have any reason to have "that many troops" in a specific location?

Russia since they are constantly talking about that with the west / EU.

Respectfully I get the impression you are not familiar with diplomatic relations involving military deployment (and I am being serious about that impression. No offense).



demus
so what are we actually talking about here?

Your failure to read the article in the op. If you don't agree then disagree and make your case.



demus
Putin said he will protect Russian citizens (if needed) by all means necessary.

Yeah a bs excuse to justify more land grabs inside sovereign nations. How do we know this?

When Putin announced they were using that new doctrine, which he followed up with accusation against Ukraine about ethnic Russians, they should have no issues documenting / supporting their claims.

The problem is the Russians, who made these argument at the UN, have completely failed to provide any supporting evidence to substantiate the claims they made. From what I have seen Russia has failed to produce it on 2 separate occasions at the UN.

Why make the claim and then refuse to submit evidence?


Based on that logic Turkey could invade Crimea to protect their ethnic tartars. It would also mean Arab countries could invade Russia in order to protect Chechnya / Chechens (Muslim population), who by the way met every single criteria Putin gave for self determination in Crimea. Apparently he uses that excuse to gain land and ignores it when he is already occupying the territory = twice now in the last 10 years, one of those invasions occurred because Putin gave the order.



demus
what would USA do for it's citizens in similar situation?

Invade a foreign country on the premise of protecting..... what? Ethnic westerners?

No, the US would not invade a country to protect Americans in the scenario we have. The US also would not annex that territory either.


demus
I believe same or more...

History says otherwise.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:35 AM
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demus
invasion that never happened!

Ukraine, the Ukrainian citizens and the bulk of the countries on this planet doesn't agree with that position. During the revolutionary war in the US, the British used Hessians (German military units). If the hessians engage in combat, which they did, Britain cannot argue they are private mercenaries acting on their own. Just as Russia cannot claim they are self defense forces and are not Russian soldiers.

What so ironic about that position is the fact that "Ethnic Russians" self defense forces are Russian.

Remember the reason Putin gave - to protect ethnic Russians? How could it be they are not Russian military units when they are ethnic RussianS?

Please show me were the "self defense" forces of Crimea had top of the line Russian equipment? By the way they are not in the stores for people to purchase, like the uniform excuse.

You also have soldiers who identified themselves as Russian.




demus
propaganda is yelling invasion but there is no invasion!

They invaded Ukraine.. Its been all over the news for the last few months.



demus
tell me when did invasion happened?

Ah.. you're one of those.
February 27th / 28th.

If you guys read the agreement between Ukraine and Russia with regards to military units in Crimea you would have noticed that while Russia is allowed to deploy larger numbers, any change must be submitted to Ukraine and they must agree with the move.

Russia did not do that.

Russia military units were deployed outside of their bases in Crimea, which is also a nono to the agreement. If you look, from the time they invaded Ukraine up to the vote, no independence vote occurred. That means an invasion occurred.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



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