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Psychics arent real and people cannot talk to the dead, all frauds, here is why

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posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 10:29 AM
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Spiro

Here lies the problem. They are either Psychic or they are not. They can't be JUST sometimes. You either have the gift or you don't


99% of the time they are correct using chance alone, nothing more. If I Psychic is given 15 tests and out of those 15 they get, say, 7 right, that is not being Psychic, its chance and chance alone.


That assumes a very black and white understanding of psychic ability that is possibly not in tune with reality. Assuming psychic abilities do exist, someone who doesn't have psychic abilities can't begin to understand how they work. If they don't understand how they work, how can they design the right tests with which to measure them with 100% accuracy? "Either you meet these exact specifications 100% of the time, or you're obviously lying." Most things in life are not that black and white.

Then again, if your definition of psychic is something very specific, then it makes sense that you'd think psychics don't exist. Doesn't mean they don't, just means the ones that might exist wouldn't meet your standards.




posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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I don't have a lot of time for the whole 'psychic TV' phenomena that has caught on over the last few decades, and is really an extension of the fraudulent techniques and motivations practised by (often damaged) hucksters in the Victorian era.

But that doesn't mean that no one has any kind of psychic abilities!

I have a lengthy background in the esoteric traditions of both the east and west, and so have numerous friends who practise astrology, tarot, the Yi King and more. Just because Russell Grant has a newspaper column and Derek Acora has been on the telly doesn't mean these people are fake!

Out of interest, do you believe that fake 'Dr's John Gray and Gillian McKeith are evidence that no one in the world is a real dr?

presumably you would claim that Dr's skills are verifiable in and of themselves, empirically. But what if the person doing the observing had no medical knowledge? How could they distinguish between real drs and fake drs? Sure, taken as a whole, medical science practised properly has a great success rate, but that doesn't always translate into individual practitioners.

For example, what about the psychiatrist presented with a list of seemingly incurable patients who, despite his best intentions and genuine medical skills, was unable to help them? Where as the charismatic fraud down the road was presented with a run of patients suffering from anxiety related complaints and the force of his personality exercised a placebo-effect on them, essentially curing them? You can scoff at this, but be assured it does happen. People aren't stupid, and there is a way that conmen prosper, often in the public eye. Gillian McKeith, to go back to an earlier example, doesn't even have an A level understanding of biology… but she managed to fool the British public for years, and likely would still be doing so today if to for the efforts of Ben Goldacre.

On paper, in the example above, the fraud would look good and the genuine dr would look like a huckster.

Randi, of course, has none of the relevant esoteric training to understand what he's looking for. And, he does have an agenda, which is discrediting the paranormal -- as such, he tends towards the more ridiculous claims that he knows he can debunk.

Add to that the fact that the physical sciences (which Randi and his ilk worship as the fount of knowledge) has no mechanisms or metrics in place to deal with the paranormal, and how exactly could anyone be able to win his million dollars?

I also find it laughable that people believe those with the powers Randi professes to analyse would choose to take part in these tests. If you had paranormal powers and wanted a million dollars, would you go on a low budget TV show and jump through hoops for an old man whose only goal in seeing you was to make you look like a charlatan? Contrary to what many believe, those people with genuine occult and paranormal abilities do not often seek public recognition for them.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Spiro
 


Oh definitely. It's like home runs. You don't just score home runs sometimes: you either get them all the time or you can't do home runs.

Or writing amazing stories.

Or cooking great tasting meals.

Or working out complex equations.

Or chatting up girls at a bar.

Or investing money wisely.

Or etc. etc. etc.

You would agree, right? You can either do these things, or you can't. If you tried to do these things and failed sometimes, that would obviously mean you were just being lucky on those attempts at which you succeed, right?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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Here's an interesting observation.

Having read the comments so far, it's very similar to other threads on this subject in that there are two memes that keep popping up with monotonous regularity:

1. The vast majority of psychic mediums are charlatans, but a tiny minority are genuine.

2. The genuine ones do their thing for free (only the charlatans charge a fee for their 'gift').

Proof anyone?

Or is it (as I rather suspect) just your opinion?

And not even your opinion but a belief influenced by the fact that lots of other people use the same memes (ie "all these people believe a and b, therefore a and b must be true").



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 12:52 PM
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lotusfoot
People who claim to talk to the dead are all scam artists. Psychics are all con artists as well.


You say that but...



lotusfoot
I believe some people have some level of intuition others don't have , just like I was saying above, some can draw a picture perfectly and some cant at all or play music , those aren't the only talents there are, lots of different ones.


Here you are saying that some people do have psychic ability just like some have musical talents.



lotusfoot
Then again, a true psychic probably wouldn't care about money or advertise their abilities, so my title was a little confident so Ill probably get it big time for that lol anyhow Im leaving my mind open for a just maybe there is a real psychic somewhere but the people that claim to speak to the dead are fakers and scammers.


Why would a "true psychic" not care about money? Does being a psychic exclude you from paying bills or having to eat? Do musicians and other artists not care about money if they are "true"?


ps edit - Have you ever actually looked into what Randi requires for his "challenge"? He's a bitter jaded old man who doesn't want to be proven wrong; just wants to be bitter and jaded.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Cuervo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by lotusfoot
 


The term psychic is often misunderstood. Everyone has the ability to see things, but not all can understand what they see. Having intuition or predictive capability has different levels of achievement. I will say this though, anyone that chooses to charge for these visions is abusing the gift. Tarot card and palm readers see things that are open for interpretation and a medium that is interested in being helpful will only share positive information. If someone is giving harmful information they are not using their ability correctly.

The notion that nobody can talk to the dead is a false assumption based on a false belief. That is a discussion for another thread perhaps, but I happen to believe that nobody actually dies. The vessel ceases to function and the energy merely relocates. That being said, it is absolutely possible and probable even to have a spiritual connection through an energetic confluence.

Debunking psychics is hardly a science. Anyone that has the gift and knows how to use it, also knows that free will can alter what was once seen. Just because something doesn't happen the way it was described previously doesn't mean it was not seen before free will changed the outcome.

Part of the reason for sharing information is to keep certain things from happening to begin with, but it is also to give others an opportunity to be prepared for the outcome of events that have yet to happen.

Are some people charlatans? Absolutely. That doesn't mean that everyone is lying when they say they had a vision or communicated with a spirit.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by CJCrawley
 


Obviously, I can only speak for myself.

I agree with your first premise (that the vast majority of people who advertise themselves as 'psychic' are fraudulent and / or deluded) but not your second. I know numerous people who, while they would not necessarily use the term 'psychic' to refer to themselves, perform services like tarot readings, astrological readings, and other types of divination / skrying for people. Some of them charge, some of them don't. I am one of the ones that doesn't.

Most of the people I know do not consider themselves particularly gifted or special. They are tantric initiates and adepts, qi gong masters, or members of magical orders who have studied various occult practises, some of which are divinatory in nature.

Obviously, this is a far cry from the very commercial and obviously nonsensical tabloid astrology and 'psychic phone lines', but that doesn't mean they can't (or shouldn't) charge for a service that not many can provide and takes their time.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by CJCrawley
 


i think now we are getting closer to the heart of the matter..



1. The vast majority of psychic mediums are charlatans, but a tiny minority are genuine.
2. The genuine ones do their thing for free (only the charlatans charge a fee for their 'gift').


some of you are asking for the criteria to be 100% accurate (consistently)
...i believe this is where the discrepancy comes in (the standard; the rule of measurement)

matthew 6:22

22"The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. 23"But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!


as for "psychics"..
Cross References
(Isaiah 5:20) Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
(Matthew 5:15) Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
(Luke 11:34) Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness.
(Luke 11:35) See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.


as for charging money..
"those who worship the creation, rather than the creator"
"the love of money is the root of all evil"
"freely you have received, freely shall you give"
"seek the one who has created pleiades and orion"

there is nothing else to do but love God and love your neighbor as yourself
everything else will flow from that (was supposed to flow from that, was designed to flow from that)

 

everything else on offer is less than the 100% you are looking for, summarized by this little picture;

 

this post might require several *readings* to interpret
for the one who reads and does not understand; don't argue with me, argue with God



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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According to the current understanding of physics, forces are not transmitted directly between objects, but instead are described by intermediary entities called fields. All four of the known fundamental forces are mediated by fields, which in the Standard Model of particle physics result from exchange of gauge bosons. This is called the Unified Field Theory. Now, we as living beings emit an elecrical aura that would surely interact with said fields. To say that our brains, which rely on electrical firing within the neural synapse, cannot interpret or pick up said field would seem to be a fallacy. I dont believe pschics work the way most think. But, that last bit is just my opinion.
edit on 3-4-2014 by DarkGameGod because: oops



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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Spiro
Here lies the problem. They are either Psychic or they are not. They can't be JUST sometimes. You either have the gift or you don't


99% of the time they are correct using chance alone, nothing more. If I Psychic is given 15 tests and out of those 15 they get, say, 7 right, that is not being Psychic, its chance and chance alone.

Spiro



The real problem lays with your expectations;

If a prophet were given a test to name the last names of the next 15 presidents of the United States to come after Obama and got 7 correct that would be an amazing feat. If you or I tried it, we'd be lucky to get one correct, if that.

It's not as black and white as you think and not being pyschic yourself, you have no understanding what the ability is like to have.

I've known a few psychics quite well myself and I perceive their ability to be like this;

Imagine an old AM band radio. Remember how they used to go all fuzzy sounding and the songs would sort of come and go if you didn't have them tuned in exactly right? You'd hear parts clearly, then they would fade out and sometimes revert to static. Sometimes if you picked up the radio or the aerial it would improve a bit but then you would lose the signal again.

That's what it seems to be like for the psychics I have known. They get a fuzzy vision or internal locution, they interpret what they can and just like the radio, they are not in control of what they receive or the quality of the signal. They just repeat back what they can understand.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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UNIT76

For the one who reads and does not understand; don't argue with me, argue with God


Acts 2:17 my friend;


"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.


Even Christians have 'psychic' abilities. The only difference is that we call them 'gifts'



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 


thanks for expanding this.
yes. i'm not saying psychic powers aren't real.
i agree with your AM radio analogy. (and the associated static)
do you think there are people out there who have tuned in and listen to nothing but that station? ..i do


this was interesting;

According to the current understanding of physics, forces are not transmitted directly between objects, but instead are described by intermediary entities called fields. All four of the known fundamental forces are mediated by fields, which in the Standard Model of particle physics result from exchange of gauge bosons. This is called the Unified Field Theory. Now, we as living beings emit an elecrical aura that would surely interact with said fields. To say that our brains, which rely on electrical firing within the neural synapse, cannot interpret or pick up said field would seem to be a fallacy. I dont believe pschics work the way most think. But, that last bit is just my opinion.

i think of the sub atomic world; with its bacteria, viruses, and further down (all are living things)
"fields" (behold, i have planted a garden) jer 2:21, prov 24:31 et al
i think of the ancient concept of 'daimens' (relayers of information, these fields again)
i think of the ancient adage, "as above, so below"
i think of a "unified field theory" and mans desire to 'be as gods'
i think of "the singularity project"
etc

..all of this makes sense to me, how about you?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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Spiro They are either Psychic or they are not. They can't be JUST sometimes. You either have the gift or you don't


99% of the time they are correct using chance alone, nothing more. If I Psychic is given 15 tests and out of those 15 they get, say, 7 right, that is not being Psychic, its chance and chance alone.

You should watch some of Randi's videos


Cheers

Spiro


Watching the challenge that I posted earlier has led me to understand that not all psychic are good at a given particular task - just like not all doctors could perform open heart surgeries. If you test a psychic who specializes and is well-polished in criminal cases, you can't expect him/her to perform well telling your future, for example.

Yes, it is rather harsh to say a heart surgeon is not a doctor and all doctors are shams just based on a Randi test that proves he/she can't perform kidney transplants, IVF procedures, etc. And oh by the way, doctors do make mistakes too.



edit on 3-4-2014 by Kurius because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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CJCrawley
I'm conflicted about this.

I tend to not believe the majority of the time...except when I watch Colin Fry.

Colin Fry is a spiritualist medium on UK TV (actually watching him now).

He's very good.

Of course, he could be just a very good trickster.










Colin Fry is good, very good.

I met him once upon a time (my crazy mother moves in spiritual circles), a guy called Magnus channels through him.

A long time ago, my mother had a reading with him (magnus through Colin), who amongst other things, talked about my grandfather, who at the time was proud of me (although dead), but the thing which swung it for me, was at that time in my life I wanted to go into nursing, or something medical, I was very young at the time (still at school) and one of the things he said was that he could see my wearing a blue nurses dress, somewhere in this world there is a recording of this conversation, although no idea where it is nowadays.

Obviously on some level this kind of makes sense....apart from the colour, see where I live nurses back then wore white dresses, so I couldn't understand where the blue part came from.

Well fast forward a short time later, after I had left school, I started working in a nursing home as an auxillary nurse, I wore a blue nurses dress.

Granted it's not much in the way of proof, in fact many could poke more holes in what I have written than swiss cheese, but it is a part of my life story, I have met various psychics, mediums and yes even charlatans, but I can tell you, for as many as there are who take advantage with little to no gift, there are many who are sincere.

I agree this kind of thing shouldn't be done for profit, that said the flip side is even psychics need to eat.

edit on 3-4-2014 by solargeddon because: typo



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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You do not understand what you are is the main problem with you OP. First of all you are not even human. You think you are human because you have taken on this burden of being a human but you're not. You were there before the Big Bang ever happened. You are eternal immortal awareness. The Universe happens in you, not you in it. Awareness turned itself into light and consciousness and matter. Awareness is unlimited eternal and all pervading. Consciousness has a lifespan of 100 billion trillion years. I don't have to prove to you that you know you are Aware. You are fully God and Fully Human you just don't remember. Meditate on the fact that You Are that is all that is needed and You will remember your psychic powers. Your God powers will develop. Then you will know in your own experience that not all powers of the mind are a fraud. Telekinesis, Clairaudience, Clairvoyance, Precognition, Telepathy, Levitation, Teleportation, Transmutation, Resurrection. The highest is of course the ability to create life itself out of the Ethereal Ocean of Awareness.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Thiaoouba Prophecy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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I've been thinking on this a bit and wanted to add something for thought...

In my humble opinion, there is a big factor people entirely leave out of the expectations/performance question, before we even get into karmic issues or consequence of misuse, as some very strongly believe exists.

How many here have taught themselves a complex or sophisticated skill like programming, advanced software, tactical/competition shooting or similar things? Now how many have gone on to take formal and professional instruction, after the self education was "complete" at some earlier point?

How humbling was the experience, in finding out how many things ..and often important things...get missed by self education, because when it's our own selves and a new thing we know nothing about at first, we don't even know what is being missed, as it's rolling right past. Ships in the night..between student and knowledge.

Being psychic is, pretty much, 100% self taught and development of one's own natural and inherent potential. How much is being missed for that process and likely never picked up later vs. what talent it might produce if one of the few highly gifted ones were doing hands-on apprenticeship? It doesn't surprise me that most are hit and miss, and without the ability to do many things 'on command' as much as on some inspiration that triggers it. (depends on what skill we're talking, of course.) It only surprises me so many get good at it, as it is.
edit on 3-4-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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UNIT76
reply to post by markosity1973
 

i agree with your AM radio analogy. (and the associated static)
do you think there are people out there who have tuned in and listen to nothing but that station? ..i do




Most definitely


These people usually have quite fried brains though and tend to not make much sense. i.e. they are what we call crazy. Some manage to stay sane and are very gifted prophets. Note; Prophet does not mean able to predict the future, prophet strictly means to speak the word of God, or in psychic terms, speak the messages they receive.

Being Catholic I've met and spoken with visionaries who see the Virgin Mary. These people obviously have a very speical gift where they are able to tune in and see the unseen. I've been to a day where these visions occured myself and experienced the unbelievable. Sometimes the 'signal' can be so strong that we can all receive and interpret it.





..all of this makes sense to me, how about you?


For sure, I like the old star trek analogy - Nothing ever ceases to exist, it just changes form. i.e. every single thing we have ever done or will do exists within this universe as a form of energy.

We are all exposed to this energy, but only some people's brains are able to tune into it and interpret it. Like another member has already stated, I can only speak for myself here, but as a member of the catholic church I've seen and experienced many, many things that are inexplicable. When I meet people who identify as psychics they all tell me that I have powerful latent abilities which is odd, because I don't tell them that I am a Christian person who has seen and believed from a Christian perspective.
edit on 3-4-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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Having looked at the thread, and then the postings and then the actual rules for the challenge the following can first be stated:

In Vegas, the games are designed so the house will win.

That is the impression I got after reading the rules for the million dollar psychic challenge. If a person wants that kind of attention, I would suggest going into politics, like say the Congress or the Presidency, cause then you are under a microscope and get paid for it.

But all things aside, as one poster stated there are both legitimate and illegitimate people out there with paranormal abilities. Who can tell which is valid or not? Having looked into that aspect, I can tell you that those who are legitimate, will be able to tell you about yourself without you saying a word, and sitting there, silent and still. One who is illegitimate will often ask questions to get information.

The mind is a powerful thing, it can do things and heal the body, is it supernatural, who knows, as we know very little of what all the brain and mind is capable of, just that we only use about 10% of it.

But most psychics do have one thing in common, they are very perceptive and intuitive, able to look at a person and see things that many people tend to overlook or not notice, they can correctly see how a persons life has come around and where it is going. Sometimes it is a self fulfilling prophecy. And other times, it can be sheer luck, and the person stumbles across something that takes a person by surprise.

We really do not know all the ins and out of paranormal things to make a say yes or no, if you look back at history, each new discovery challenged the traditional way of thinking, and based off of some of the technological developments, it could be that some of this is very valid, such as machines that can read a person's thoughts or a tattoo that can display such. Would that not be a form of telepathy or empathy?



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



How many here have taught themselves a complex or sophisticated skill like programming, advanced software, tactical/competition shooting or similar things? Now how many have gone on to take formal and professional instruction, after the self education was "complete" at some earlier point?

that's very insightful i think,
i've been computer programming as a hobby for a while now, it reminded me of an experience i had not so long ago,
i enrolled into a course at a local TAFE, it was structured over 2 years but i quit after 2 weeks because the first part of the curriculum was all business study orientated, i just wanted to expand on my knowledge-base and didn't have the patience to endure what i thought was non-essential stuff, i intended to develop a 3D retro role playing game (dungeons and dragons) i know there is a market for it so i didn't need to be coached on how to sell my product to a market i knew was already there..

i see the whole psychic phenom industry this way- it's about healing (delivering that final product) ..the 'payment' comes about regardless (if the product pleases) that is to say, most of the 'good' psychics (healers) i encountered all worked on that 'donation' method. the same principle applies at a garage sale, barbeque or something equally innocuous; if you offer a good product and say to someone, "ah, just give me 50 cents to cover costs" they will almost always turn around and say "no way, take $3, i insist" ...you know what i mean?
 

markosity, i'm curious about something back there,
how come a person who tunes directly into the source (God) ends up being crazy or brain-fried?
wouldn't this Mary be a subsidiary/affiliated station of God anyway?
..what's wrong with cutting out the middle man entirely? (or in this case, middle woman)



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 08:49 PM
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DarkGameGod
According to the current understanding of physics, forces are not transmitted directly between objects, but instead are described by intermediary entities called fields. All four of the known fundamental forces are mediated by fields, which in the Standard Model of particle physics result from exchange of gauge bosons. This is called the Unified Field Theory. Now, we as living beings emit an elecrical aura that would surely interact with said fields. To say that our brains, which rely on electrical firing within the neural synapse, cannot interpret or pick up said field would seem to be a fallacy. I dont believe pschics work the way most think. But, that last bit is just my opinion.
edit on 3-4-2014 by DarkGameGod because: oops


I agree with your last statement that people are simplifying this.

For my point of view there are at least 2 issues you have to deal with when it comes to telepathy. My assumption is that the transmitter/receiver is the third eye and is controlled by the unconscious mind.

1 You need to make an entanglement (synchronous) connection between the sender and the receiver first to be able to do anything.
2 The information that goes from conscious mind -> encoded to unconscious mind -> sent from third eye -> received in third eye -> decoded from unconscious mind (ego projection) -> conscious mind.

In the 2nd comes the ego projection problem where the experiences of the receiver can miss translate everything that was sent even if the information arrived correctly at the third eye.

Sometimes you can be able to send information that is "spot on" that the receiver do not even know the real context off and then you have a medium that do not ego projecting at all.
edit on 3-4-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)






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