The bubonic plague was airborne and not spread by rat fleas.

reply to post by andy1972


From your link:

Square, to the north of the City of London, during excavations carried out as part of the construction of the Crossrail train line, have suggested a different cause

This is one research group's hypothesis, it is far from settled.

"As an explanation [rat fleas] for the Black Death in its own right, it simply isn't good enough.

They seem to be suggesting that it was a combination of being spread by rat fleas and by being airborne.

well, they were wrong, dead wrong.

I think you're perhaps reading a little too much into a newspaper's reporting of some interesting but far from settled research.

Makes you wonder how much more of the history that we have been taught is wrong.

History is messy business. It's not a great surprise that aspects can be inaccurate. I hope people aren't going to use this as an excuse to smuggle their pet pseudoscientific ideas through the back door because of this.

Thurisaz
reply to post by andy1972

 

then why did the Great Fire of London put an end to the plague?

?

The plague that wiped out Europe was three centuries before. And as it's well known, the plague had a habit of disappearing as quickly as it had arrived.

As it didn't go very far it was problably Bubonic and not pneumonic, spread by the filth that was common place in London at the time.

What i would like to mention is about the fact that many people at the time mentioned that a strange cloud would appear just before the plague arrived, causing deforestation and death to anyone who came into contact with it.

Then theres the mention of teams of black clad men appearing with scythes that would release smoke, make a noise, yet not cut the corn??

I'd like to know if theres any similarities between the plague and agent orange symptoms..

I`m delighted to hear this. It seems everything I doubted as a kid in school later turns out to be wrong. The teacher tells you something as a "fact" and you just intuitively feel there is something "off" about it, but in your ignorance you don't know what. Its just a feeling. The "bubonic" plague is just one of many things of this kind. After a while you lose interest in the "official versions" of things...

...and end up at ATS.

Wait if the Plague spread through the air then... the Plague Doctors were right all along.

en.wikipedia.org...

They filled their beaked masks with herbs and other things they thought would ward off bad smells thought to cause the plague. Many of them got sick themselves. Maybe the fleas got to them rather than the air.

reply to post by andy1972


Apologies in advance if I offend.

Your thread title doesn't make any sense to me, are you sure that's what Dr. Brooks is claiming?
He specifically states that he believes the Black Death in Britain spread too quickly for it to have been primarily the vector bound bubonic plague. If the bubonic plague was airborne like you have said in your title how could it spread slower than pneumonic plague?

We went over this in grade school...the bubonic plague was spread by fleas from rats, but once the infection got into the lungs then it became airborne and is called the pneumonic plague

reply to post by _damon


It is cured with basic antibiotics so not much threat unless its weaponized.

Khorvan
Wait if the Plague spread through the air then... the Plague Doctors were right all along.

en.wikipedia.org...

They filled their beaked masks with herbs and other things they thought would ward off bad smells thought to cause the plague. Many of them got sick themselves. Maybe the fleas got to them rather than the air.

I thought of the same thing. It seems the Maisma theory of "bad air" was on the right track.

On a side note, it has been theorized that the largest recorded wage increase to happen in history for, non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the introduction of fiat currency, was after the black death pandemic in the 14th century, especially in post-pandemic England.

In fact the sustained wage growth for non-land owing, wage-laborers was rising so quickly that the English parliament, a few decades post the Black-Death, under King Edward III, introduced the "Statute of Labourers 1351", which was used by the "Owners of Capital", as an artificial means to drive down the wages of non-land owning peasants. Despite market conditions signalling the need for increased wages.

avalon.law.yale.edu...

The Statute of Laborers; 1351 ("Statutes of the Realm," vol. i. p. 307.)

FYI, the Statute of Laborers 1351, eventually caused the Peasants Revolt.

let us not forget this Little Gem

Influenza of 1918 During WW1

1918 Flu Pandemic
www.history.com...

The influenza or flu pandemic of 1918 to 1919, the deadliest in modern history, infected an estimated 500 million people worldwide–about one-third of the planet’s population at the time–and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims. More than 25 percent of the U.S. population became sick, and some 675,000 Americans died during the pandemic. The 1918 flu was first observed in Europe, the U.S. and parts of Asia before swiftly spreading around the world.

This Virus in 1918 was Uncontrollable

Clinical Signs and Symptoms of Influenza

Influenza Prevention & Control Recommendations

www.cdc.gov...

Influenza vaccine
en.wikipedia.org...

CharlieSpeirs
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

reply to post by andy1972



Well, watching the inconsiderate aholes who sneeze all over people when they have a cold or the flu, its easy to see how an airborn plague would QUICKLY spread.

To be fair... People can't stop a sneeze or a cough, & even if they cover up their mouth... Nothing used to do so is airtight & it spreads anyways!!!

I'm not advocating not covering up, but it's not the cause & affect... It's just inconsiderate!!!


Peace Void!!!

Hi CharlieSpeirs. As you can see, if the guy in the pic had covered up, 90% of whats ejected would have been stopped.
Sorry for such a graphic pic, but I think it makes the point.

CharlieSpeirs
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

reply to post by andy1972



Well, watching the inconsiderate aholes who sneeze all over people when they have a cold or the flu, its easy to see how an airborn plague would QUICKLY spread.

To be fair... People can't stop a sneeze or a cough, & even if they cover up their mouth... Nothing used to do so is airtight & it spreads anyways!!!

I'm not advocating not covering up, but it's not the cause & affect... It's just inconsiderate!!!


Peace Void!!!

Not covering a cough or a sneeze can be a cause/effect. If there is a barrier between the sick and well some of those droplets go somewhere other than the receivers face. While it isn't full proof there is a reason it is taught to children and practiced by millions.

I'm glad to hear this plague can be killed with antibiotics. Otherwise I would be concerned about them digging it up.

reply to post by andy1972


Honestly, I thought this was common knowledge - that it didn't become "The Plague" until it became Pneumonic, that rat-fleas spread bubonic plague, but as a transmission vector was/is far too random and slow. But after bubonic takes hold, then infected particles become airborne, resulting in the pnuemonic plague, which was far more transmissible, and far more deadly.

Even Camus' "The Plague" written in 1947 illustrates this; it begins with an outbreak of bubonic plague that turns pnuemonic.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Actually I'd totally forgotten about this picture...
You are correct pal, I didn't say what I said to appear argumentative, I just had the thought of how the Chinese deal with pandemics etc with the masks!!!
Doesn't seem to have much affect, but hindsight with the picture you shared tend to show there probably is a point to it!!!


Peace Void!!!

reply to post by Dianec


Yeah that makes a lot of sense to be honest!!!
I suppose I was looking at it from the perspective of it diluting in the air around and spreading anyways...
But nobody wants to be in contact with bodily fluids in such a scenario!!!!


Peace Dianec!!!

I know some other rat/mouse diseases can become airborne. And how do we know the rodents bit people. Couldn't it have been from breathing in droppings/urine from infested buildings. If so this would mean even hantavirus could become contagious. Other rodent diseases are thought to begin with one person inhaling whatever it is their wastes puts into the air (Hemorrhagic fever), and then it may spread from person to person thereafter. What is in this waste to cause this? I'll have to check into that.

Some diseases have more than one transmission vector, so there's no reason it couldn't have been both. From person to person, perhaps airborne was the main means of catching it. But the zoonotic vector could still be from rats as carriers and fleas as the transmitting mechanism. In such case, the animal-based vector would make effective quarantining more difficult (people during that era already knew to keep the sick away from everyone else), which is why stopping it was more important.

I see some people with paper masks and it looks funny, but it might actually be practical. You can't always prevent what is out in public, particuarly in the air (see chemtrails...). I think the best thing we can do is educate each other on how to use proper hygeine and cover their mouth with their sleeve before they sneeze or cough. Then build your natural defences so you don't catch every single bug that is being spread throughout the air we all breathe. Build Your Immune System and you can go about your business. I'm hardly ever sick becuase my immune system is strong and healthy. I try and eat organic and drink filtered water as well. That seems to be working for me really well.

I had seen on the show cosmos that a comet was seen passing in the night sky weeks before the bubonic plague attacked Europe
my girlfriend said what if it came from space.

I had thought it was quite a good idea as it had never been seen before on earth.

reply to post by andy1972


I love how willing people are on here to buy ANY theory or new information so long as it helps them feel like they're smarter than "the experts." Here's an idea: Maybe you should wait for confirmation before you use this to prop up your "WE'RE ALL BEING LIED TO!!!!" thing. Just a thought...