260,000 graduates in minimum wage jobs

A degree has never been an automatic path to a good job--ever. But it helps. On average, a college degree holder makes much more in a lifetime than a high school graduate. That doesn't mean Bill Gates, who dropped out of Harvard, isn't the richest guy in the world. We're talking averages here. It also doesn't mean that EVERY degree holder gets a good job. There are too many other factors. There are many things that can derail you, including a bad attitude.

Secondly, it's true that not all degree holders working at the minimum wage have useless degrees. But many do. In fact, a useless degree may be indicative of earning the minimum wage. If you get a B.A. in nearly anything, it is more useless than a degree in a more tangible field. That doesn't mean that a B.A. in English can't wind up the CEO of a publishing house or a 4-star admiral. Some have. But all things being equal, a degree in engineering is less likely to see you working minimum wage than a degree in English. How many aeronautical engineers make the minimum wage? How many don't have jobs?

Really, what ought to happen in this country is a suspension of student loans for all these useless degrees. Unless you can prove your job prospects are excellent with a given degree, your loan should be disapproved. If you can pay for it yourself, have at it. Great! Personal choice and all that. But to take out $100K in loans to get a B.A. in English, then complain about the loan and lack of a job, is just flat-out ignorant.

Thirdly, your accounting major relative is a good example. Yes, he worked minimum wage for awhile, and then he got a good job in accounting. For one reason or another he didn't fall into an accounting job at graduation. It took awhile, but he got one. His degree paid off with a little patience. Lots of people are in that category. Same thing happened to me. But I was delusional. I had been taught and assumed that if I got a degree, the rest would be a piece of cake. It took a dose of reality to disabuse me of the notion that the world owed me a living. Once I figured out my life was my responsibility it started getting easier.

Now a lot of people seem to be under a similar delusion that because they manage to exist that the world owes them a job with what they call a "living wage." Not only do you want a "living wage," you also want complete health care benefits, vacation, sick leave. retirement contributions, disability insurance, special time off for funerals, personal holidays, etc. and if you can't pay then you expect the government, i.e.: the rest of us, to pay for you. And all because all you can manage to do, besides reproduce and get high, is what any person can be taught in a few hours to do. In other words, it isn't "skilled labor." It could be done by a robot.

And THAT'S the bottom line. You should know by now that your presence on Earth does not mean a company is forced to hire you. That's why manufacturing jobs went overseas. It's cheaper to pay foreign workers to assemble widgets and pay for shipping on container ships than it is to hire American workers who are more interested in complaining than working. Why hire American workers with no work ethic when telephone calls are cheap enough that you can hire Indian workers at what they see as excellent wages to do the same thing?

Now those jobs are poised to come back. Why? because it's beginning to cost too much even over there. But degreed B.A.s in English aren't going to get them. That's because the minimum wage is rising to the point of the cost of robots, which cost in the mid $20K per year. A robot can do what a minimum wage worker can do more efficiently, longer, and without complaint. And THIS is going to cut into the available minimum wage jobs. And, in fact, what cannot be automated will rise in value, but there will be a whole lot fewer of them.

Consider retail, a bastion of minimum wage jobs (I worked retail for several years.) People shopping online don't need retail clerks. They don't need retail stores. They don't need malls. They don't need the cars and gas to drive to them. All they need is an Internet connection and Amazon.com. Click! Zip! And it comes in the mail--maybe by drone! Robots take the order. Robots pick the order. Robots pack the order. Robots ship the order, and, in the case of drones, Robots deliver the order. No humans required.

So what are we going to do with all these humans that can't seem to get themselves educated sufficiently to get good jobs? Have fewer of them. No extermination necessary. Problem solved in a generation and just happens to "save the Earth" in the process. Win-win.

Yeah, yeah. I know. I hear the outrage. It's a lot more complex than that. Duh! But this is the general trend. For the present, if you can't get yourself educated in a field that has some demand, you're going to be wallowing in low wages. If you believe in your own self-preservation, you'll take steps to alleviate that problem.

Or you can just complain about it, which is a lot easier. Your choice.

reply to post by schuyler

WarminIndy
Hey, some of you out there, didn't you have grandparents who scrubbed toilets to send your parents to college? My father grew up in houses that didn't even have roofs, but he had 5 children that went to college, 3 with Master's Degrees and have been featured on nationally syndicated radio shows about ECONOMICS. Don't tell me that Boot Strapping doesn't work.

All you just did was support my argument. I actually mention the differences between the economy & law we have now and those from the post war period. Both you and your grandfather ARE those people whom benefited post-war, just as I said. I'll repeat, a person could have done such after the war in 1945, but that was a TOTALLY different world in terms of codes, regulations and financial polices. We don’t live in that world anymore. Basically, after the war in 1945, it was possible to rise beyond ones class without having much previous family wealth, due to the world being TOTALLY different in terms of codes, regulations and financial polices; However, trying to do something similar, TODAY, without some family financial assistance, has NOT really been possible since, circa 1999-2013.

For example, its no longer legal in the USA to live in a roofless shack, while saving up money in order to move onto "better things". You could totally do that long ago and NOT be harassed by law enforcement, not even remotely so today. Sure you can try to not get caught for a while, but eventually, those enforcing the "codes & regulations" will catch up to you. The system is designed that way.

Post the 1929 depression, the government has created many tomes of codes and laws criminalizing many acts of POTENTIAL non-compliance to established practices in the larger economy. Meaning, have a permanent address, get a driver licenses, get a credit score, get a degree, get insurance, etc, etc, etc. Did your shoeless grandfather, living in a roofless shack, need ANY of these things to get jobs? Look at the sate of the homeless in this country and how laws affect their nomadic lifestyles, for a perfect demonstration of what I describe. ITS SO OBVIOUS the US government knew there could be a breaking point, when TOO MANY people could simultaneously attempt to drop out of the system and all become shoeless grandpas, living in roofless shacks.

If too many people start going off the grid, not paying taxes, not getting drivers licenses, skipping school, LIVING IN ROOFLESS SHACKS etc, they will simply throw these people in jail, period. For example, its basically illegal for a church to serve food to the homeless today without a permit. Things CERTAINLY didn't work that way when you grandfather lived in a roofless shack while his children earned masters degrees. Do you think soup kitchen during the depression in 1929 needed a "permit" to serve 3,000 starving people a day? Heck, if Al Capone was allowed to run a soup kitchen back then, unmolested by Law Enforcement, then you know a "permit" wasn't on anybody's mind. The US government it seems in the past actually wanted people to get some food to eat when they had none.

I'LL REPEAT,

Funny how this topic keeps arising here and the "boots straps" folks com out of the woodwork preaching the usual 19th & 20th century job search/mobility strategies, that don't currently work and will NEVER work again.

I will CONTINUE to post everything I have noted above, so people can finally understand and accept that the "boots straps" strategy died at LEAST 10 years ago in the USA and is NEVER going to function as it did in previous centuries.

sarra1833
reply to post by monkofmimir

 

Good points, and with number 4 if I may add a little:

Cost to start up a business is outrageous. Taking out loans to get it going and also hoping and praying you entice customers in, and hoping and praying you are still in business after that first 6mths to 1 year. Most businesses fail in that time, sadly.

I'd say usually because another Walmart moves in and destroys most small businesses, but yanno. The competition unfortunatly is either the 'big dogs' taking over with ridiculously low prices (and crappy goods for said cost, but people need to save much as they can given how things are today so it's almost a lesser of two evils) or everyone else has the same/similar small business idea and it turns into a Highlander game (there can be only one).

Sad stuff, isn't it just?

Every company that I worked for and made it a success, did so by starting off with a simple product that didn't require loans from banks. They'd had experience in the past where they had seen others write a business plan, take out a loan using their home and savings as security. Then the minute earnings went into the red, the bank reeled in the loan, and took the house. The bank still made a profit, but the business owners lost everything. These days, they say that tech companies shouldn't go to banks for loans but look at business angels and crowdfunding like "kickstarter.com"

schuyler

So what are we going to do with all these humans that can't seem to get themselves educated sufficiently to get good jobs? Have fewer of them. No extermination necessary. Problem solved in a generation and just happens to "save the Earth" in the process. Win-win.

So your quite happy to see million stave in the west to make way for the new economy?


I agree with you about the useless degrees ect

But everyone needs at some point a job that can pay they rent, food and doesn't kill them due to stress/ bad health.

No every teenagers and graduate doesn't deserve a "living wage" job straight off the bat and quite frankly a few years of hard grueling work does everyone good. But eventually they need to move on.

Do you really want to go back to Victorian era times of starvation, poverty and disease in the west ?

Good reply crazyewok!

schuyler
And THAT'S the bottom line. You should know by now that your presence on Earth does not mean a company is forced to hire you. That's why manufacturing jobs went overseas. It's cheaper to pay foreign workers to assemble widgets and pay for shipping on container ships than it is to hire American workers who are more interested in complaining than working. Why hire American workers with no work ethic when telephone calls are cheap enough that you can hire Indian workers at what they see as excellent wages to do the same thing?

So genius, explain what happens when the "owners of capital" choose to not employ the bulk of the unskilled population in "make work" jobs, SOLELY for the sake of overall public safety? Meaning, having a make-work job with living wages, STOPS the peasants from trying to "storm the castle" every other week. Frankly, its better and simpler to just pay them to do something, ANYTHING IN FACT, even if it provides no monetary value to the "owners of capital". They are essentially buying safety for NOT ONLY themselves, but also the upper & middles classes that do the ESSENTIAL day-to-day work of society. Why would any "capitalist" want this you ask? Because I'd rather the unemployed, unskilled, masses be non-violent and passive. I surely can't afford a body guard contingent to escort me to work and back AND protect me in my home while I sleep, and contrary to belief, most likely neither can you.

I am a graduate and I am on near minimum wage in the UK. It's not due to lack of available jobs though, more that I have no idea what I want to do as a career so it's a filler position. I think a lot of people are in the same boat, undecided on what they want in life after graduating.

A degree doesn't guarantee someone a good job but it could boost their chances of getting that higher position.

reply to post by boohoo


Then why aren't you doing anything different than sitting around complaining?

Oh the Boot Straps made it sooooo difficult for you. Well bottom line this one..

WHAT BOOT STRAPS DID DO FOR YOU

1: Boot Straps gave birth to YOU
2: Boot Straps gave YOU the most disposable income of any previous generation.
3: Boot Straps allowed YOU the right to explore educational prospects, religious prospects AND...gaming
4: Boot Straps bought MORE technology for YOU to enjoy.
5: Boot Straps became YOUR soccer moms.
6: Boot Straps inflicted LESS corporal punishment.
7: Boot Straps bought your Playstations and Xboxes.
8: Boot Straps bought cable for YOU to watch inane, ridiculous pop culture.
9: Boot Straps worked to take YOU to Disney World.

Did I forget anything?

Boot Straps are your moms and dads, you should thank them for all of the above.

And Boot Straps GAVE YOU the internet to post all of your complaints on.

Here is an excellent book by Mark Bauerlein called The Dumbest Generation

Home page of The Dumbest Generation

Justaposter
Now on the flip side of things, many are old enough to have had the luxury of having an after school job during high school. Something to teach us the ropes of working, and providing important life lessons. With kids competing with adults for starter jobs, valuable life lessons are being lost. And it is frightening for kids to see older adults working in jobs that are usually meant for the younger set. There is no longer a clear 'end game' in sight for them.

This fact was raised before in MANY previous threads posted on ATS. Here is my explanation to the current phenomena:

Many supports of American style capitalism love to mention various theories based on economics, tech advances, the free market, etc, in regard to the relationship between wages and youth employment rates, BUT history actually shows a different outcome when low-wage/low-skilled labor becomes scarce in the larger market.

First off, before 1990, 40% of teenagers had part-time jobs while in school. This is a relevant statistic because today only 20% of teenagers in school, have part-time jobs. Teens at one time, made up a sizable portion of the workforce and changes in employment practices favoring "low-skill/low-wage illegal immigrant labor" has decimated the "first job" prospects of America youth today. These currently jobless teens would fill a sizable portion of the initial loss of "low-skill/low-wage illegal immigrant labor" almost instantaneously. Now whether these young americans do a good job or not, should not be a part of this debate. The fact is these teens are a huge source of untapped low-skill/low-wage labor in the USA.

Now for a history lesson related to my statement about why future, skilled labor & high-tech jobs are ONLY going to be accessible to the offspring of the rich/wealthy...

Up to the 1940 a person could get just about any job & on-the-job training with an 8th grade education, but today you need a BA or Masters for entry level.

Why?

Because the government & with the help of big business figured out a long time ago that populations would certainly increase over time, but due to technology advancements, the availability of jobs would not expand to meet that population growth. There is a reason they currently don’t want people dropping out of high school. Then strongly encourage that same high school graduate to attend junior college immediately out of high school, then on to a 4 year university and finally entering a Masters degree or PhD, because it DECREASES the amount of people looking for full-time employment at the SAME TIME in the market, with everyone looking for and willing to work, chasing after scarce jobs whom the market CANNOT EVER provide employment for.

Look at it this way, when people could get a job with on-the-job training with an 8th grade education they went out and did it as soon as possible (a combo of on-the-job training and an opportunity cost decision made by the person selling their labor). Then jobs got scarcer and the minimum requirement became a high school diploma, adding 4 more years of people NOT Looking for jobs within their cohort. Then jobs got even scarcer and the minimum became a 2 or 4 year college degree, adding an additional 2-4 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort. Now jobs are really scarce and may require a Masters or PHD, adding an additional 2-7 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort.

Basically the way the economy has been structured TODAY, we are looking at young people within their cohort whom are NOT looking for full-time, career type, employment for 6-15 YEARS, beyond 8th grade, all while they spend that time solely finishing formal schooling!!!

This has been done ON PURPOSE, to keep the number people seeking employment lower. In 1920, after 8th grade, everyone who was able, went out to look for work and typically found it, that’s simply NOT possible today under any circumstances. My guess it that government will soon find a way to give easily accessed welfare and add another 1-3 years of people within a cohort to those “not seeking employment”, not to the specific detriment of society, but to continue to mask the illusion that jobs and upward mobility are still available; while providing a social & economic form of public safety that diminishes the will of the peasant to "storm the castle" regularly. So, if someone gets a graduate degree and collects 1-3 years of welfare on top of than, that’s ONE less person competing for scarce future jobs. The extra years of welfare are then acting in the same way, to the larger economy, as the increased minimum education levels currently required for entry-level employment. Essentially to decrease the number of able-bodied applicants out on the job market at the same time. This cohort of people "not pursuing full-time employment" also includes those in Prison, Government pensioners and the disabled on government assistance. If everyone needed to go out and “get a job” or “start their own business” TODAY as many “capitalists” suggest these days, we would all be making 0.25 cents a day.

Finally, guess when the largest “recorded” wage increase happened in history for, non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the introduction of fiat currency?

Any ideas?

I’ll tell you, it was after the black death pandemic in the 14th century, especially in post-pandemic England.

How is that possible?

Because “the owners of capital”, post-black-death-pandemic still needed wage-laborers, but there was a HUGE shortage of able bodied people, so, in order for ANY work to get done they had to pay the peasants and other undesirables more, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. This principle is still at work today, when you take the time to recognize that portions of the population are actively discouraged from participating in the full-time labor market. This is easily done, by throwing people in prison, forcing them to attend formal school longer and allowing more people to claim themselves as disabled or collect long/short term welfare. The next obvious step for government to further reduce the number of people participating in the full-time labor market is to allow them easier access to welfare or as some have been recommending lately, a guaranteed minimum wage or allowance that everyone gets, without having to provide labor to an employer first. I’m not going to go into any specific economic theory, but this above noted cohort of non-participants collecting a base amount of guaranteed welfare/allowance will likely keep wages stable for those whom are still working full-time. If all people capable of working full-time, entered the job market simultaneously, wages would crash and to a certain extent have, as of 2014.

So I will give schuyler this much credit, if those not in the 1% refused to get married or have babies from here on out & aggressively block any future immigration, both legal and illegal, the 1% would very quickly need to raise wages for non-land owing/peasants/undesirables/wage-laborers,. Otherwise nothing they want to get "worked on" would ever get done. When low-wage/low-skilled labor becomes scarce in the larger market, wages go up. Newborn babies, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants destroy the wage negotiating power of the 99% and the 1% know this.

WarminIndy
Did I forget anything?

Boot Straps are your moms and dads, you should thank them for all of the above.

And Boot Straps GAVE YOU the internet to post all of your complaints on.

Here is an excellent book by Mark Bauerlein called The Dumbest Generation

Home page of The Dumbest Generation

Yes, you did forget something, that I already clarified & answered your above points about how our "code heavy" economy and job market is COMPLETELY different than the one of your grandfathers and in most cases, even the economy you grew up with.

Post the 1929 depression, the government has created many tomes of codes and laws criminalizing many acts of POTENTIAL non-compliance to the established practices in the larger economy. Meaning, a person MUST have a permanent address, get a driver licenses, get a credit score, get a degree, get insurance, etc, etc, etc. Did your shoeless grandfather, living in a roofless shack, need ANY of these things to get jobs?

NO HE DID NOT.

And that doesn't even BEGIN to cover my earlier point about the HIGH COST skills and formal schooling needed to get a job in the current and coming high tech economy. You're nothing but a shill, trying to deflect the truth, while promoting propagandist advice, based on the myths of the prior 19th and 20th century local economies, which no longer exit, IF they ever did in the first place.

Not to mention, you managed to squeeze in the old "college kids are dumb today" argument...

Are you even familiar with the premise of Mark Bauerlein's book? He blames the Boomers of the 1960's for dismantling the education process & system created by the Greatest Generation, Generation Jones and the silent Generation. Mark says those earlier generations had implemented a very good education system of mentoring and apprenticeship, which the BOOMERS then decided to dismantle after taking FULL advantage of the benefits, leaving us, WHOM CAME AFTER, with what we have today.

Pull your head out of your butt, please!

boohoo

WarminIndy
Did I forget anything?

Boot Straps are your moms and dads, you should thank them for all of the above.

And Boot Straps GAVE YOU the internet to post all of your complaints on.

Here is an excellent book by Mark Bauerlein called The Dumbest Generation

Home page of The Dumbest Generation

Yes, you did forget something, that I already clarified & answered your above points about how our "code heavy" economy and job market is COMPLETELY different than the one of your grandfathers and in most cases, even the economy you grew up with.

Post the 1929 depression, the government has created many tomes of codes and laws criminalizing many acts of POTENTIAL non-compliance to the established practices in the larger economy. Meaning, have a person MUST have a permanent address, get a driver licenses, get a credit score, get a degree, get insurance, etc, etc, etc. Did your shoeless grandfather, living in a roofless shack, need ANY of these things to get jobs?

NO HE DID NOT.

And that doesn't even BEGIN to cover my earlier point about the HIGH COST skills and formal schooling needed to get a job in the current and coming high tech economy. You're nothing but a shill, trying to deflect the truth, while promoting propagandist advice, based on the myths of the prior 19th and 20th century local economies, which no longer exit, IF they ever did in the first place.

I said it was my FATHER. But since we are talking about grandfathers...

One grandfather was an air artillery sergeant in Corrigedor, was taken prisoner by the Japanese and liberated three years after being a POW. He was in the Bataan Death March, he received his metals posthumously. But he was suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (formerly called Shell Shock), my father qualified for a full college scholarship as reparation. Did my father take advantage of that? No, he did not. Instead, he chose to throw away the chance of an education. That is what he bemoaned my entire childhood, that he threw it away.

The other grandfather was a farmer.

Did my grandfathers need driver's licenses? Yes, they did.

No, I am not a shill, merely telling YOU how it is.

Did they need skills? Yes, they did.

OK let's go on those jobs those 40% teenagers did...most of them were working part time for farmers, picking fruits and vegetables until it became fashionable to hire immigrant labor. Until the 1980s, many WHITE people still worked as migrant laborers. True.

Many of those 40% teenagers worked in fast food restaurants, however in those fast food restaurants there were laws and regulations prohibiting them from operating certain machinery. BTW, my 14 year-old cousin who married her husband two years after having their first baby, when she was 14 years-old, that husband wasn't a slacker, Boot Strapped himself to eventually become a Master Electrician. He spent a long time as journeyman, but took it upon HIMSELF to work at anything until he found something better. They have been married over 23 years now and have three children of their own and adopted one. So don't tell me Boot Strapping no longer works.

And the fact you called me a shill means that you are refusing to look at the truth.

Our socioeconomic system is not designed for everyone to have a livable wage. At current, if everyone would be granted a livable wage, we'd need to reintroduce slavery to fill the service sectors and the jobs that need to be manned for our grid to function.

WarminIndy
The other grandfather was a farmer.

Did my grandfathers need driver's licenses? Yes, they did.

No, I am not a shill, merely telling YOU how it is.

Did they need skills? Yes, they did.

OK let's go on those jobs those 40% teenagers did...most of them were working part time for farmers, picking fruits and vegetables until it became fashionable to hire immigrant labor. Until the 1980s, many WHITE people still worked as migrant laborers. True.

Many of those 40% teenagers worked in fast food restaurants, however in those fast food restaurants there were laws and regulations prohibiting them from operating certain machinery. BTW, my 14 year-old cousin who married her husband two years after having their first baby, when she was 14 years-old, that husband wasn't a slacker, Boot Strapped himself to eventually become a Master Electrician. He spent a long time as journeyman, but took it upon HIMSELF to work at anything until he found something better. They have been married over 23 years now and have three children of their own and adopted one. So don't tell me Boot Strapping no longer works.

We too had people in the family that were farmers in the 40's and prior, the drivers license was not necessary, not by a long shot pending on how rural the area was. My grandmother REGULARLY drove around on tractors and cars at 12 years old, she didn't get a licenses until she moved out of the farm house in her 20's, when she got married (very late for the period I might add). And even if they did have one, I clearly noted that it was far easier to dodge the laws & regulations in that era.

BTW, I also said get a credit score, get a degree, get insurance, have a permanent address with FUNCTIONING utilities, etc. You're splitting heirs here and conveniently leaving out all the mandatory expenses that people have today, which did not exist back then.

You also failed to acknowledged that I CLEARLY mentioned a person could LEARN ON THE JOB in the past, WITH PAY, but no longer can do so, circa 1999-2014. That PRIOR cohort, allowed to have done such, would include all your farming relatives and your electrician cousin. Whom I might add began their careers WELL before 1999 (married 23 years means, they learned their job skills and got careers PRIOR to the phenomena I described).

I addressed EVERY POINT you have made here in my previous posts, you simply failed to read and comprehend what I wrote. Every time you post a rebuttal, the more you inadvertently support my assertions.

BlubberyConspiracy
Our socioeconomic system is not designed for everyone to have a livable wage. At current, if everyone would be granted a livable wage, we'd need to reintroduce slavery to fill the service sectors and the jobs that need to be manned for our grid to function.

edit on 2-4-2014 by BlubberyConspiracy because: (no reason given)

You are correct and I have also addressed this before on ATS:

There has ALWAYS been an economic system at work in the USA that limited the number of able bodied workers whom would be PAID and those who WOULD NOT be paid. The “owners of capital” learned their lesson about labor shortages POST the “Black Death” and figured out from that day forward how to keep wages down and potential available laborers numbers at maximum levels, while forcing them to compete for scarce available paid labor positions.

In the past when there wasn’t enough money to go around to pay BOTH employee wages & profits to the “owners of capital”, they simply brought in more indentured servants, immigrants (Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc) or used flat out slave labor (Blacks, Native Americans, domestic prisoners, POW’s, etc). The only difference between now and then is that “owners of capital” can’t LEGALLY have slaves or indentured servants anymore, BUT they have the same pressures as before, to keep their individual high wages & profit flowing, with laborers working for a little wages as they will accept for services rendered. The mechanisms today that replaces slaves and indentured servants are the following: longer than needed formal education for basic employment, off-shoring of labor, forced retirement, prisoners and welfare.

The only other choice when these conditions eventually arise to crisis levels will be the expansion of welfare because some rich kids will want to work for fun or enrichment, but there won’t be many job to go around anyway. So, someone has to get thrown out of the labor market and it won’t be them at the end of the day. Another possible policy outcome to all the above is making the legal adult age 25, which could give the middle class short time window to recover decades of wage loses and lower the likelihood of people willy-nilly having a child that they know legally can live with them until 25. Baby making will drop off a cliff and daily wages will soar if such a law were created.

However the best option is preventing illegal immigrants from gaining employment. Doing such will absolutely increase wages across the board. Because history has shown that the "owners of capital" will AWAY have work that needs to get done. But for us the peasants, self induced labor shortages is one of the few ways to get the "owners of capital" to pay more for services rendered. Unions is the other, but Americans have already voted against their interests in that respect. All they have left now to negotiate with is making less babies and stopping both legal & illegal immigration.

reply to post by sarra1833


That is 260,000 people who were raisd to believe that participation yields rewards, not success. They went to college on the premise (and promise) that it would improve their ability to earn. I have heard it said by counselors, "Once you graduate, even with student loans, you won't have to struggle." "Don't go to college...you can work at McDonald's"

All they want is to have the statistics. If you go to college, the school has a statistic to report.

They were all raised to expect much, much more from life than they are getting. When peoples expectations are not met, they become angry.

If this doesn't get addressed quickly (which i can't really imagine how that will happen....they weren't raised to be free thinking entrepreneurs afterall. They are participants, not winners) we have a very ugly situation starting to brew.

Minimum wage will be increased, which will benefit the government. But not anyone else, despite the hope it will give. We are starting to hear the drums being beat regarding "social justice" in America. The future is looking dark. Dark and bloody.

reply to post by sarra1833


A college degree does not make up for lack of common sense, lack of interpersonal skills, and the fact that there are a lot of worthless degrees from worthless online universities.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I think that's the biggest difference between when I first went to college and now...

When I went, we were told we could LEARN, not EARN.

Education is the L Word.

I graduated in a time when it was more common to expect young women become nurses or teachers, at that time when Sally Ride became the first American woman in space and Christine McAuliffe became the first teacher, and we all sat and watched the Space Shuttle blow up, it was tragic that this event happened, but here was a woman teacher, going to space. That said more to us than anything else.

I wonder if many of these posters know what the struggle has been for women to achieve high leadership positions. She didn't get there on her good looks, I will tell you that right now. Why do people think the "binders full of women" were so funny? Because it's true.

While these posters see the statistics, they aren't counting women in that. Women in high leadership positions NEED the educational backgrounds. Do you remember the old riddle?

A man and his son were in a car accident and the father died. When taking son to the hospital the surgeon could not operate on the boy. Why not?

The answer, because she was the mother. And the reason no one got that during those times, was because women were not expected to be surgeons.

You've come a long way, baby, was the mantra of Virginia Slims, the first cigarette marketed for women. While I may seem harsh when it comes to this issue and people think I don't get it, I do. I'm of that mid-societal shift, when we were told that to get an education was valuable and that because we were young women, we can become whatever we wanted to, except leaders.

But the point is, what we were taught, was that you do what you have to do to succeed, because honey, it's a man's world.

reply to post by sarra1833


I feel bad for my son, 4 years and a degree in animation and computer sciences for CGI and movies, 40k in debt and he is working at one of the big fast food places, but at least they might make him a manager in the next couple of months. He does side contracts for gaming companies, so at least he is staying on top of his game (he finished with a 3.78 GPA). But I also feel a little crazy with the lack of opportunities out there for myself. I have been running my businesses and as a consultant/contractor for the last 24 years and I have watched business decline after 2008 at an incredible rate, it's like we all fell over a cliff. Governments have destroyed their own nations to the benefit of their corporate sponsors and now they bitch and moan that they don't have enough tax revenue, when they destroyed the system in first place through really bad treaties like NAFTA, TAP and TPP.

Like others here, I have a PhD (hon) for my work with the military and CI in advanced weapons systems, five years in analytical chemistry, 5 years in HVAC and building automation, does it help, nope. Does another 30 years of experience in product development, R&D, engineering and physics help, nope. Does networking help, nope. Does my military strategy, sniper or small arms experience help, nope. Does having about 2,000 copyrights and some patents help, nope. The economy has been damaged to the point that I really don't believe it's recoverable. Even all of the contracting opportunities are drying up and I am pretty well networked.

So I went into music because I play keyboards, do a lot of sequencing and play guitar. I made contacts and got licensing contracts in all the big recording labels to do backing tracks. Ok, that worked for about a year, then with all the torrents coming out, that business collapsed. So I looked at just doing entertainment live, all the venues are running out of money because of the economy but I tell you, the draconian smoking and drinking laws sure don't help.

It doesn't matter which way you turn, the governments are putting up roadblocks and screwing up every opportunity, even the ones you might be able to make for yourself. Maybe it might be different for younger people, but from my son's experiences, I don't think so. With an almost 50% unemployed or under-employed rate for the 22 to 30 year age range, we have some really serious problems. I am over 55 so I am eventually screwed anyway, but I hope for change so that at least my son can benefit from all of his hard work.

Cheers - Dave

The system is breaking down fast. Fresh young minds out of high school every year and there is no jobs or very little. How can they find a job, when even mom and dad can't find a job? So they go to college, but that is no guarantee, it's just extending the inevitability that you're going to be living in poverty regardless. Hell I know people with 3-4 degree's in different fields and still are working minimum wage jobs living paycheck to paycheck myself included. I'm also dealing with old physical injuries that limit what I can do. Retirement? It doesn't exist.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Meanwhile, you have males unemployed and earning dirt wages, too.

I do get your meaning. I was raised by a single woman who passes for an angel on her worst days. She was over worked and underpaid. Meanwhile, so was her brother (my uncle).