Ukraine agrees to host NATO war games

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Since then the Russians have increased the price of gas to Ukraine

Good grief - Thats because the deal has been canceled (as of 04/01/14) just how I stated in my last post.

Indeed - you do not substitute 50% of your energy supplies overnight.

Hence I was commenting on the medium-longer term.

As per my last post, there may NOT be a 'medium-longer' term. Russia has a HIGH probability of still controlling the Energy within EU.

No side of this conflict is clean. . . We can agree on that. But what I do know is that replacing a corrupt govt w/ an even MORE corrupt govt is not the way to go.

. . . It's only hurting the people of Ukraine/EU.

MrSpad

victor7
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

If Russia and NATO went to war Russia would not be on the offensive. They do not have the numbers, the active military is only 100K men larger than just Turkeys active forces. Russia also has to keep forces in the east with the US able to come from either direction and keep forces to make sure China does not just liberate the Asian populations of Eastern Russia. They also have to keep forces in the the southern states that will rise up again if they see a chance. And they keep forces to deal with Georgia and Moldova who will use this a chance to chase the Russians out. And have to secure their entire Western border . And they have to do all this wilthout air or naval superiority. The real problem for the Russia's would be command, control and intelligence. They have spent almost nothing on this and it above all else gives the west its greatest advantage.

Buddy, do not count of China taking your side.....Ok. This possibility is not even worth discussing.

South, when Iran is with Russia then majority of the Islamic patch of the south will go quiet. Russia has upto 5 Million ex-draftees available to keep things cool.

Georgia and Moldova...........they will not try. One tactical nuke in a far away Georgian jungle will get the message through as to what might follow if they don't keep quiet. Georgia under Sakisvilli was different. 2008 rear-reaming quietened them up.

Do not forget, Russia is also CSTO which includes Belarus, Kazaksthan, Armenia. If nothing then they can come up with 1 Million combat ready forces. Kazaksthan's military is 90% Russian manned.

NATO will have air and naval superiority but that will not stop the Mongoloids.......it will not be Iraq or Libya scenario.......expect Russia to throw everything on the face from the Day 1. Western Europe will face extremely heavy damage in the first 2-3 days and if needed Nukes will enter the equation within a week. Read Putin's doctrine released in the year 2000. Also expect lots of treaty walk outs on the western side.

WW3........all for Ukraine? Don't think so !!

GreenMtnBoys
reply to post by victor7

 

Russia is the second most powerful military in the world. Why? Because they have the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world. More than China. More than the USA. The only reason they are not numero uno is because the US has a much better capacity right now to deliver our nuclear warheads. Let's gets few things straight with the situation in Ukraine.

If Ukraine is a sovereign country what the hell is the US doing instigating a coup d'etat? Because that's exactly what it is. Come on! Look at our own country and our own politicians. I laugh at the idiots in America arguing how corrupt all these other foreign leaders are. Putin? Yanukovich? Gimme a break! They are no more or no less corrupt than Obama, McCain, or Senator Lee from CA. How you like them apples? We have a US Senator smuggling arms via the Chinese mafia and we have the nerve to blast Putin and Yanukovich? LOL>…..America is becoming a land of hypocrites. We are BROKE! Europe is BROKE! The logistics of fighting a long drawn out war against Russia which will be damn bloody and make Afghanistan and Iraq look like a tupperware party, are extremely challenging. I mean most of Europe relies on Russia for trade and energy.

You can't blame Yanukovich for taking the better deal offered to him by Russia instead of the EU. He might have been corrupt and he might have been a billionaire yadda yadda……….the EU deal had nothing in it for Ukraine. And why shouldn't Eastern Ukraine be concerned. They have a huge symbiotic economic relationship with Russia.

Say what you want about Putin and Russia. They are ready to fight and they will be fighting for a true purpose. Protecting their brethren and protecting their homeland. What will Ameican troops be fighting for? Terrorists? NATO? Ukraine? What a joke! Kerry should be fired and Obozo should be impeached. Not one young American life is worth giving for this situation.

Oh and let's not forget the biggest issue in all of this…..the US government backing out of its promise to Russia not expand NATO further encircling Russian territory. Why in the hell the US is so bent on making an enemy out of Russia is beyond me. If we were smart we'd be making friends and allies with them.

Mark my post….the real problem facing the free world is not Russia….it's North Korea. And there is a reason why the US hasn't gone to war with NK. They would inflict HUGE damage despite how powerful our military is. NK is run by a lunatic and they have nuclear weapons. If our military should be used for anything it should be used to take care of NK.

edit on 1-4-2014 by GreenMtnBoys because: miss spelling and addition

This post is about as close to the truth it gets, looking at the bigger picture for a pattern of behaviour globally, consistently shows america (washington) involvement in almost every 'uprising' over the last few years, libya, egypt, syria and now ukraine, the constant rhetoric regarding iran, invasions of iraq, afghanistan, intrusion into sovereign states (pakistan) with elite squads and drones, creating unrest and instability everywhere they involve themselves whilst using a bought and paid for mainstream media to justify their actions to the uneducated

To get back on topic, Ukraine is a complete mess right now, Nulands phone call, the illegal payments to a military coup, regardless of right or wrong, premature involvement of the IMF, all point towards interference by an outside entity to achieve a goal which was rejected by an elected leader, we all know what happened next but the question is why? what was the goal? who stood to gain from a change in the status quo?

As greenmtnboys has pointed out, russia offered a far better deal after the EU came calling, the ukranians stood to gain nothing, in fact would be worse off (as they are now seeing, 50% rise in utility bills already) and most people/countries in europe are expecting/waiting for the euro currency to collapse sooner rather than later so a country with ukraines debts would only strain that economy more meaning there must of been another reason why they were wanted in the union

Putin is nobodys fool, he's a strong leader, understands geopolitics way ahead of the game, and always seems to be one step ahead, maybe 2 or 3, hes a world leader, i'm not so i can only guess going forward but watching his actions and following logical conclusions, its only a matter of time before theres a huge shift in world power

my reasoning to believe that is crimea, the western world has tried to spin this story so much that its obvious that the warm water port used by russia was the real reason behind the whole ukraine situation, washington wanted it as a superb base for them, by ukraine joining the eu they could levy debts to the IMF by 'renting' the port and building an air force base there, Putin obv realised this, in fact most of europe did but our governments are implicit so we dont really get a say in it, unfortunately for washington many of the countries that broke away from the soviet union still trust them less than the russians and arent stupid people, seceding to russia saved them a war they didnt want as well as protection from the marauding neo nazis flooding Kiev, once again Washingtons buy now pay later policy (supporting al nusrah-al qaeda in syria) has backfired and they've been left with a huge mess to clear up, going forwards obama is now imposing sanctions that most of europe will suffer for, america is not affected by them, europe is, russia is the biggest supplier of gas, oil to most of europe so they are reticent to go along with whats essentially sour grapes and stamping feet because he didnt get his own way, by agreeing it will cost russia around 200billion, so obviously they'll sell elsewhere, china has 1.3 billion people, india has 1.2 billion, thats half the world population, both countries have supported russia over crimea publicly, when they commence supply you are looking at the worlds largest natural resource country with the 2 largest workforce populations, the petrodollar will be sideswiped and either the rouble or yuan will become the world reserve currency, americas only real income apart from war gone, non aggressively, no blood spilt, who do you think will start a war then? and as extra insurance china holds usa treasury bonds they can cash anytime, there really will be a new world order

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


It was never our goal to bring them into nato, we had no illusion of going that far nor did they. We wanted to do it without waking the psycho bear. Lol. They did however fully intend to move to the west. The general staff were desperate for the move. Some of the old guard were little more skeptical.

It was a good contract and wish I had made the move.

The Bot

As usual NATO defenders get starts for defending NATO's actions in Ukraine. Even by supporting unelected thugs and goons i am a bit surprised.

reply to post by 13th Zodiac


So people in crimea voted peacefully to join is an occupation yet the goons in Kiev whom weren't even elected are peaceful heroes?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Ukraine has no proposal for joining NATO, and never has had.

No of course not just like Italy didn't have any proposal for joining NATO right? when you became a member of the EU you already joined NATO.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

firstly you occupy the country with your troops in a pre-panned invasion

Those troops in crimea arent Russian Troops they are militia troops, militia troops whom recently posed for the cameras. I have plenty of pictures of them.

Btw here is my rough reading of the NATO vrs Russia air forces:

In Generation 4.5 a/c Russia has barely 34 vrs nearly 500 for NATO (not including the US !!)

In Generation 4 a/c Russia has roughly 700 vrs nearly the same for NATO (not including the US !!)


This means Russia stands little chance of keeping NATO air force from gaining air superiority in 3 to 5 days.

Russian Air Defenses like S-300/S-400 might help it from denying NATO the "Total Air Superiority" for say two weeks at most.

Roughly, Russian Air Force and Navy as offensive elements can be destroyed in first 3 days if everything is thrown in right away.

This also means..........NUKES will be entering the party within 168 hours i.e. within a week !!

So better......if the NONSENSE does not even start to brew......rather than trying to topple the kettle when it is already hot !!

reply to post by victor7


Personally did you play the video game WarGame? to get that information if so i have to disagree with your analysis.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


all wikipedia stuff.......any comments would be helpful. look forward to........

israel - palestine
china - tibet
russia - crimea

explain to me the difference between the 3 situations and then the reasons why only 1 is getting special attention

ThinkClearer
israel - palestine
china - tibet
russia - crimea

explain to me the difference between the 3 situations and then the reasons why only 1 is getting special attention

easy..........israel is controlling a hostile palestine and so is china on tibet............in russian case, crimea is friendly and hence the reunion.

reply to post by victor7


wikipedia?? lol not a reliable source for such things.

Xcathdra

MALBOSIA
And pump prices will remain the same no doubt. This just sheds more light on how they can use reserves to extort other nations but when it comes to easing the suffering at the pumps, it is no dice.

Thank you for pointing out how truly twisted a western government and the corporations that purchased them really are.

edit on 1-4-2014 by MALBOSIA because: (no reason given)

Interesting... You take exception to something the West might do while at the same time ignoring the fact Russia just jacked up gas prices going into Ukraine and is threatening Europe, again, to cut their supply.

Care to share with us why you think there is a difference.

I guess the difference is that Ukraine is being punished straight up and the west is victimized by their own government that claim to be a free democracy. I would rather get punched in the face and know why, than get my back rubbed with tiny razor blades. But that is just me...

victor7

ThinkClearer
israel - palestine
china - tibet
russia - crimea

explain to me the difference between the 3 situations and then the reasons why only 1 is getting special attention

easy..........israel is controlling a hostile palestine and so is china on tibet............in russian case, crimea is friendly and hence the reunion.

palestine is hostile? they seem to be shrinking rapidly, i guess fighting to survive could be an alternative spin

tibet is hostile? educate me, i suddenly feel unaware of the situation

i agree, so why are the west only involving themselves here?

reply to post by ThinkClearer


tibet is hostile in the sense that they do not like chinese not that they are voilent.

reply to post by victor7


so they dont like being occupied? why isnt anyone helping them? isnt that what the good guys do? no benefits?

Xcathdra

DarknStormy
reply to post by MrMaybeNot

 

Paranoid Western leaders.. Crimea voted to return to Russia and that's where it should end. Maybe the Russians were just waiting for crap like this to happen so they are not caught off guard.

Exactly at what point did you / anyone else decide Ukraine, being a sovereign nation, can't act in their own best interest.

Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can host whatever nation it wants inside its territory and trying to argue the contrary just undermines Russia's position even more.

What Ukraine does inside its own borders is no one else's business, including Russia's.

No, you see it works for some countries and not others especially when the USA is involved. If we agree that the Ukraine can do what it wants inside its borders then the same should apply to every sovereign nation and not just the USA's and Europe's favourites. With that also, Iran should be allowed to build nuclear technology and weapons because really, it's inside their borders, the West have them and it's no ones business what they want to achieve? I mean really, wouldn't Iran be acting in their best interests to counter the nuclear arsenal of the USA, Europe and Israel?

victor7
easy..........israel is controlling a hostile Palestine

Palestine is only hostile because a bunch of land grabbing euro Jews stole the only land they had and then put them into what could be considered a modern day concentration camp. I would be pissed off also if they done it to me.

and so is china on tibet............

Tibetans are so hostile they would rather set themselves on fire in protest than fight against the invader...

in russian case, crimea is friendly and hence the reunion.

Crimea was given to Ukraine as a gift and if the Ukraine were going to turn their back on me (Me being Russia), I would annex that gift and take it back also.