Ukraine agrees to host NATO war games

Another link to add, yep look like it's true

news.yahoo.com...

Why are no UK media reporting it?

This might explain the war games / NATO.

US, Russia talks fail to end Ukraine deadlock

PARIS — The United States and Russia agreed Sunday that the crisis in Ukraine requires a diplomatic resolution, but four hours of talks between U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov failed to break a tense East-West deadlock over how to proceed.

Sitting face-to-face but not seeing eye-to-eye on any of the most critical issues, Kerry and Lavrov advanced far- different proposals on how to calm tensions and de-escalate the situation, particularly as Russia continues to mass troops along its border with the former Soviet republic. As he called for Moscow to begin an immediate pullback of the troops, Kerry also ruled out discussion of Russia’s demand for Ukraine to become a loose federation until-and-unless Ukrainians are at the table.

If a neighboring country, who just invaded Ukraine and who has 40-80k troops on my border, started shopping the idea of breaking Ukraine up and offering different sections to surrounding nations, I would invite NATO in for some war games.

The question becomes will NATO get things in place before Russia rolls across the border?

I also noticed there is a conflict in reporting when it comes to those troops. I have seen one article talking about the troops pulling back and other stating they are still there and continuing to build.


Anyone in the neck of the woods have any more specific information?

more to support my point -

At a separate news conference at the Russian ambassador’s house, Lavrov did not address the troop issue. Instead, he made the case for Moscow’s idea of Ukraine as a federalized nation with its various regions enjoying major autonomy from the government in Kiev. Russia says it is particularly concerned about the treatment of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers who live in southern and eastern Ukraine.

Lavrov said that Ukraine can’t function as a “unified state” and should be a loose federation of regions that are each allowed to choose their own economic, financial, social, linguistic and religious models.

So now the Russian excuse is the type of government / constitution they have does not work.

Its a new reason every other day. Someone needs to airdrop Prozac on top of Putin.

Of course they are. They have been having exercises with Ukraine for a decade as a part of the PFP of which Ukraine is a member. It is a simple statement of Ukraines sovereignty and a reminder to Russia that NATO will not be dictated to. The same reason Russia has been having exercise on NATO borders. It is not like they will be large scale or have any possiblity of interacting with the Russians. It also works well for future talks as bargaining chip. For example if Russia agrees to only have X amount of militray exercises on Ukraines border then NATO will only have X amount of exrcises in Ukraine. I swear it is like you people have no concept of how diplomatic talks work. You have to have chips in your pocket to put on the table and both the West and Russia have been collecting chips.

13th Zodiac
How provocative is this ?

not as provocative as seizing another country's territory.

reply to post by Xcathdra

The question becomes will NATO get things in place before Russia rolls across the border?

Yep, that's the million dollar question. This won't happen till May, that gives Putin a month to decide what he's going to do. Everyone's talking about this being a stupid move on behalf of NATO, even though the war games will be in Ukraine. Would it not be stupid if Russia advanced on NATO? Putin CAN'T be that dumb.

okey if this takes wrong turn this is it folks, i mean we might see war started between the nations who got the biggest cannoons and sh1t.
as joke this would be quite tasteless but hey its aprill fools day, kinda wishing it would be just joke thou..how does theses games been over other countries around the world taken? can russia go do same stuff with any countries it wants etc?

Another example of how putin's actions are having the reverse affect when it comes to NATO -

Sweden and Finland are looking into the possibility of joining NATO.

As Russia growls, Swedes, Finns eye defence options, NATO

STOCKHOLM/HELSINKI (Reuters) - When Russian warplanes staged a mock bombing run on Sweden last year, air defences were caught napping. It was the middle of the night and no Swedish planes were scrambled.

Instead, Danish jets belonging to NATO's Baltic mission based in Lithuania, took to the air to shadow the Russians.

The discussion that incident triggered over Sweden's ability to defend itself has grown with Russia's seizure of Crimea from Ukraine. As in neighbour and fellow EU member Finland, Swedes wonder whether to seek shelter in the U.S.-led NATO alliance, abandoning Stockholm's two centuries of formal neutrality.

Sweden has talked of a "doctrinal shift" in defence policy. In Helsinki, where "Finlandisation" became a Cold War byword for self-imposed neutrality driven by fear of a powerful neighbour, the government has talked of an "open debate" on joining NATO.

Talk of NATO underscores anxieties that feed calls for more defence cooperation and spending. But membership seems distant, with voters in both countries sceptical of the benefits, and wary of the costs of taking on new international commitments.

reply to post by aboutface


Thanks for the video.
Here is the follow up with Q&A



It's vague, but you can surdenly interpret it as more upcoming exercises... completely insane!

Wookiep
reply to post by Xcathdra

The question becomes will NATO get things in place before Russia rolls across the border?

Yep, that's the million dollar question. This won't happen till May, that gives Putin a month to decide what he's going to do. Everyone's talking about this being a stupid move on behalf of NATO, even though the war games will be in Ukraine. Would it not be stupid if Russia advanced on NATO? Putin CAN'T be that dumb.

edit on 1-4-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Is Putin dumb? Nope - he came up in the ranks of the KGB, surviving in the Soviet mindset and that takes skill.

Where I see Putin failing is in the realm of arrogance and self assuredness. I think he is a bit buzzed on the Crimea operation. Taking Crimea without a shot fired, imo, has led Putin to believe surrounding nations / west / NATO / EU are not going to react in a manner that would result in casualties.

This is where we find out if all the talk about a modern war and its results / time frames. While I hope that does not occur, the other question I keep asking myself is -

What would the outcome of WWII be had the US gotten involved from the start. I will note the Brits were absolutely 1st class when it came to surviving against overwhelming odds. While I hear a lot of people make the comment about the US saving England, it is the farthest from the truth. We got involved only after our own interests were threatened.

Should Ukraine be sacrificed / forced to break up in hopes the situation can be resolved before shots fired?
Should the west gamble, again, and take an appeasement policy?
Should the west get involved in an effort to stave off another cold war / world war?

romilo
how does theses games been over other countries around the world taken? can russia go do same stuff with any countries it wants etc?

Russia held a joint war game scenario with China.

They are free to run their affairs as they see fit. Russia is reactivating its cold war bases in the arctic and has resumed long range bomber missions (just like the cold war). They also started to move back into the setup with Cuba / some south American countries - port calls, bomber going from Russia to those countries and back.

If Russia can hold maneuvers on the border of Ukraine, then Ukraine can host NATO.

Nothing like poking a stirred up hornets nest with a ......... tank? Our political leaders are engaging in a game of mines bigger than yours when they should be trying to calm the situation.

As someone with a little experience in the area of self destructive tendencies our geo-political maneuvering is starting to look a little familiar.
Ridiculous.

reply to post by Xcathdra

The US is reducing from 45 to 33 combat brigades of these 2 are combat ready or 10,000 troops,the Nato ready reaction force has 2500 troops,any more you will need time to make them ready,many of these militaries are run down and running on the smell of an oliy rag such as Britain where they've been cut to the bone,Putin is not stupid he knows Kerry is only holding a pair of fives and he currently has the aces.

reply to post by khnum


Thanks for posting the DISINFORMATION figures.

NATO is a technological force, which also means it is almost always combat ready. Very well trained and equipped.

Russia, even now, is 50% conscription based force. Readiness is less 15%. Training is sub par to western standards. Equipment is C grade at best.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Should Ukraine be sacrificed / forced to break up in hopes the situation can be resolved before shots fired?
Should the west gamble, again, and take an appeasement policy?
Should the west get involved in an effort to stave off another cold war / world war?

These are all good questions and ones many people aren't considering IMO.

A little background on my stance real quick. I'm pro Ron Paul, am as anti-war as it comes, I'm all for non-interventionism 99.99% of the time. I don't support any U.S. war that has happened within my lifetime. The last legitimate war IMO was WWII. Yes I was alive in the 80s when the cold war was finally coming to a so-called end. I was raised watching movies like "The Day After" scared the crap out of me, good thing nothing ever came of it.

Fast forward to now though and this situation in Ukraine is a whole new ball of wax. This is the first situation I have ever witnessed where Europe could very well be threatened by Russia and NATO countries may very well have to get their hands dirty and fight against Russia. (oddly, very similar to events in "The Day After") Russia does what it wants, when it wants and Crimea was a great example of this, but Crimea is just potentially the tip of a gigantic iceberg.

It's a sticky situation, and I am in agreement that it needs to be nipped in the bud now until it becomes so out of control there's no turning back. It's hard to see a good outcome no matter what action or in-action is taken because like I said, it seems Russia is going to do what Russia does no matter what. Really the ball is in Russia's court and it has been the whole time since this started..

victor7
reply to post by khnum

 

Thanks for posting the DISINFORMATION figures.

NATO is a technological force, which also means it is almost always combat ready. Very well trained and equipped.

Only when spending is up and the work is being done.

"Technological" or not, troops have to be familiar with the equipment, mentally prepared to fight, supplies have to be in place, ammunition stocks held, transport arranged, and ordinary infantry equipped.

I good friend of mine was in the NATO trigger brigade for some years in the 1980's - and even then, with he cold war in full swing, it was realized that it would stake weeks to fully mobilize the armies.

Russia, even now, is 50% conscription based force. Readiness is less 15%. Training is sub par to western standards. Equipment is C grade at best.

However of all those masses they can take the ones that ARE ready, put them on the Ukrainian border, and still have 40-80,000 troops in condition for immediate combat - the other 5-600,000 unfit for combat elsewhere in Russia are reserves, unnecessary for any immediate combat but undergoing training to bring them up to standard.

NATO cannot do that.

First they put missiles on the Russian border and say it's against Iran, now they will have war games next to Russia. Is the world run by a bunch of stupid kids?

It's just retarded.

Next logical move is for Russia to put missiles in Cuba and say that it's against Somali pirates.

If that happens, I bet that in few decades there will be a sitcom about our times

Xcathdra


Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can host whatever nation it wants inside its territory and trying to argue the contrary just undermines Russia's position even more.

What Ukraine does inside its own borders is no one else's business, including Russia's.

13th Zodiac
How provocative is this ? This is the U.S / N.A.T.O's idea of peace talks and diplomacy ? Man, anything that happens to them from here on in is their own dam fault.April fool's ? Nobody could truely be that stupid.

No, it would be the response to 40-80k Russian troops arrayed along Ukraines border.

Exactly where does that fit in with your provocation scale?

edit on 1-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

1) Russia never invaded Ukraine, that is a blatant and out right lie.Not one Soldier entered the country from Russian territory.The Troops, were in Crimea.They are allowed to be there.They never once left the border of Crimea.You are making deliberate and misleading Statements to further your own views.Stick to the facts Jack!
2) If it is O.K for Ukraine to hold exercises within it's borders, then it is O.K for Russia to exercise within it's own too, NO ?
3) Provocative yes ! Those alledged troops have been there for sometime now. Peace talks have been held since then, doesn't look like U.S and N.A.T.O want Peace.They are baiting Russia. This is nothing but your team putting out a hand in Peace, while the other has fingers crossed behind it's back!
4) 40-80k troops, well which fictional number do you want? 300k sounds better.This has never even been confirmed by credible scources.It has been nothing but hearsay and Chinese whispers.
5) All this chest puffing, from someone who claims 9/11 was a inside job! And you are supporting the same people? Or by that inside job, are you now claiming that it was the Russian Embassy in Washington ? Pal your head is all over the Place.You want war, well you've got it !
This is Obamaone Kanobi, thinking he can fix a broken country by selling arms to Europé.Pffft
No body wins a war, stop making this your personal Election Platform.It ain't going to happen for you,LOL.

reply to post by victor7


Study the Korean war quantity has a quality of its own,I dont dispute naval supremacy,probable air supremacy due to the eurofighter but as in Afghanistan if you dont control the ground-you dont control anything,also Russian electronic warfare ops assumed control and landed one of your drones in Ukraine I would not assume your technology infallible.

It's funny really .....

I mean, the West (Europe) making up most of NATO members is confronting Russia, the very same country who supplies a HUGE amount of their own gas and energy needs......!

Bite the hand that feeds... Cc. How long would the west last without a gas supply......

Man,I wish those in power would take their Egotistical heads out of their arses and act like fecking adults.....

Jeez

PDUK

reply to post by victor7



Russia is the second most powerful military in the world. Why? Because they have the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world. More than China. More than the USA. The only reason they are not numero uno is because the US has a much better capacity right now to deliver our nuclear warheads. Let's gets few things straight with the situation in Ukraine.

If Ukraine is a sovereign country what the hell is the US doing instigating a coup d'etat? Because that's exactly what it is. Come on! Look at our own country and our own politicians. I laugh at the idiots in America arguing how corrupt all these other foreign leaders are. Putin? Yanukovich? Gimme a break! They are no more or no less corrupt than Obama, McCain, or Senator Lee from CA. How you like them apples? We have a US Senator smuggling arms via the Chinese mafia and we have the nerve to blast Putin and Yanukovich? LOL>…..America is becoming a land of hypocrites. We are BROKE! Europe is BROKE! The logistics of fighting a long drawn out war against Russia which will be damn bloody and make Afghanistan and Iraq look like a tupperware party, are extremely challenging. I mean most of Europe relies on Russia for trade and energy.

You can't blame Yanukovich for taking the better deal offered to him by Russia instead of the EU. He might have been corrupt and he might have been a billionaire yadda yadda……….the EU deal had nothing in it for Ukraine. And why shouldn't Eastern Ukraine be concerned. They have a huge symbiotic economic relationship with Russia.

Say what you want about Putin and Russia. They are ready to fight and they will be fighting for a true purpose. Protecting their brethren and protecting their homeland. What will Ameican troops be fighting for? Terrorists? NATO? Ukraine? What a joke! Kerry should be fired and Obozo should be impeached. Not one young American life is worth giving for this situation.

Oh and let's not forget the biggest issue in all of this…..the US government backing out of its promise to Russia not expand NATO further encircling Russian territory. Why in the hell the US is so bent on making an enemy out of Russia is beyond me. If we were smart we'd be making friends and allies with them.

Mark my post….the real problem facing the free world is not Russia….it's North Korea. And there is a reason why the US hasn't gone to war with NK. They would inflict HUGE damage despite how powerful our military is. NK is run by a lunatic and they have nuclear weapons. If our military should be used for anything it should be used to take care of NK.