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NEWS: Russian Special Forces Invade Kiev in Disguise

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posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by khruschev
..............
Any other articles?


i guess you did not read the articles i quoted above, some of them from Russian citizens...

You know...they say that Communism "on paper" also looked like a pretty good form of government....




posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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i guess you did not read the articles i quoted above, some of them from Russian citizens...

You know...they say that Communism "on paper" also looked like a pretty good form of government....


Well, I don't really care what some defectors think. Just the name defector tells you enough. It means that he or she has betrayed his/her own country and that this person cannot be trusted. The other ones, well everyone knows that some governments pay some citizens to work for them, it is some sort of propaganda, and media war. Also, these are just some idividual and do not represent the whole nation.

Communism is a good form of government, and doesn't just look so on the paper. Of course, it is not perfect, but there is no government which is perfect. It sure is better than the kind of capitalist "democracy" you have in the USA. I said "democracy" because your current president has won his 1st term by a coup d'etat. Because he started war on Iraq under excuse of WMD present in that country, but those weapons have never been found. Your "democracy" allows torturing of people in occupied countries, like what happened in Abu Ghraib. And then because of his personal war for oil, you have terrorism, and beheadings, and all things which are happening in war zones where US troops are present.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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You mentioned article 29 of Constitution of Russian Federation.
Let's see what it says.


What the Constitution of Russian Federation says and what is actually happening are 2 different things.

-raven



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 11:31 AM
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I want to thank you khruschev, you just showed to some people, those "with the eyes to see" how communism works it's propaganda against the west....

Communism the best form of government......bs... I still have family in a Communist country and I lived under that system for 8 years....everyone that I know living under Communism want to leave and come to the U.S.

The facts speak for themselves khruschev, millions of people have fled your precious communism, and even now that Russia has embraced "partially" capitalism to try to get out of the quagmire they got themselves into, there is still the seed of communism festering under all the "illusion of democracy." I wish the Russian government would have truly embraced democracy, but that was never their plan.

BTW khruschev, I trust what the high ranking military "defectors" from Communist U.S.S.R/Russia are saying more than I trust what you say.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by raven2012
What the Constitution of Russian Federation says and what is actually happening are 2 different things.
-raven


And how can you possibly know that? Any proof, evidence?



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:36 PM
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It's more like western propaganda against the East, but whatever. It is you who lie to people in the East about all the freedoms, but you can't even elect the president without a coup d'etat.

What country are you from? Cuba? Yes, everyoen wants to leave and go to USA because of their excellent propaganda telling them how life is great in USA, but the truth is the life is much better in Communism, and many people want ot go back, but they can't, it is too late.

Russia is now a democratic state, you might say partially or whatever, but I don't really care about what you think. The Constitution says it all. And the Constitution is the highest law in Russian Federation, so if you do something which is not according to it, you may get accused of its violation. You say "illusion of democracy"? Well, yes that's exactly what you have in the USA and what your (current) country is promoting? Freedom and democracy in Iraq as far as US gets the oil


Those same defectors are traitors. And traitors don't choose those who they betray. One day they defect from USSR to USA, another they defect from USA to Japan, and so on and on and on... They are born like that and I have apsolutely no respect for them! If and only if a US high ranking officer defected to Russia, and would tell me everything he knows, and at the same time another guy would be saying similar things in the US I would trust him more that the defector. Of course the defectors' words must be taken into account but come on, you can't base your opinion on that, since just like the man is everything he says are lies.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by khruschev
It's more like western propaganda against the East, but whatever. It is you who lie to people in the East about all the freedoms, but you can't even elect the president without a coup d'etat.

What country are you from? Cuba? Yes, everyoen wants to leave and go to USA because of their excellent propaganda telling them how life is great in USA, but the truth is the life is much better in Communism, and many people want ot go back, but they can't, it is too late.

Russia is now a democratic state, you might say partially or whatever, but I don't really care about what you think. The Constitution says it all.
........

Those same defectors are traitors. And traitors don't choose those who they betray. One day they defect from USSR to USA, another they defect from USA to Japan, and so on and on and on... They are born like that and I have apsolutely no respect for them! If and only if a US high ranking officer defected to Russia, and would tell me everything he knows, and at the same time another guy would be saying similar things in the US I would trust him more that the defector. Of course the defectors' words must be taken into account but come on, you can't base your opinion on that, since just like the man is everything he says are lies.


Good try from a communist to bring doubt on the word of defectors, and there are many khruschev. Some people that used to live in communist countries want to "visit their families" but they do not want back to a communist system....although things are done and said in Russia by those in power that is making the people believe they want back to the old system...that they can't really have a democracy or republic.

BTW, you really can't be trying to tell us now that "the Cuban government is tellling Cubans that the U.S.A. is a good country".....that's laughable. Fidel would never say that of the U.S..these people want to leave, because communism sucks, and it's killing them....and fyi the kind of misinformation "you are giving" only works on people that are under a communist regime and have no idea what is really happening in the world except by what their dictators tell them.

The Russian media does not have the freedom that the U.S media has, as in the last independant station that Putin shot down.... Although there are certain things i do not agree with the U.S. media in the way they give some information, it is part of what freedom of the press is all about, and this is lacking in Russia...

Oh btw i am sure there will be no defectors from the U.S. to Russia...unless they were already spies working for the Kremlin and living in the U.S.

Going back to the topic, as another member said, what the "Russian Constitution" says and what is happening in Russia are two different things...

Let's find out from a book written in 1984 by a Russian military defector on what the officials of the U.S.S.R decided to do since 1958.


Nagorno-Karabag: A Case Study in "Perestroika"
by Dennis R. Papazian, Ph.D.
Dr. Dennis R. Papazian is a professor of Soviet history, the founder/director of the Armenian Research Center at The University of Michigan, Dearborn, and a member of the faculty of the Center for Russian and East European Studies at The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. This paper is a preliminary draft/study written for oral delivery at the annual conference of the AAASS in Washington, DC, Friday, October 19, 1990.

......................

More recently, Anatoliy Golitsyn, a Soviet defector of high status, has suggested that the Soviet Union is capable of disinformation on such a massive scale that even the Borkenau system is no longer viable. In a book first published in 1984, and of necessity written before then, Golitsyn argues that the leadership of the whole Communist bloc came to an agreement in 1958 in which it established a long range program, a master plan, which it would realize through a large scale deception of the West, a monumental scam.

Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.

..............

The final phase of the master plan, according to Golitsyn, is a disinformation and deception campaign of such magnitude that it would be "beyond the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe and, probably, the Soviet Union, and the exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland."

Golitsyn predicted the "breakup" of the communist bloc in Eastern Europe as a technique to be used by the Soviet government to entice Europe to move more towards socialism and to align itself eventually with the USSR against the United States. The Third World would then join communist Russia and socialist Western Europe against the US and its allies. Then there would be a joint drive by the Soviet bloc and a socialist Europe to push the US out of Europe and into nuclear disarmament. A powerful world federation of communist states would emerge and the US would be induced to "converge" on communist terms.


Excerpted from.
www.umd.umich.edu...

Of course, you are going to say the above is not true, but there are several Russian defectors who disagree with you....and by what we are seeing Putin doing in Russia, and everything that has happened since 1984, I say that it is all true.



[edit on 29-11-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 10:53 AM
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You say that US media has more freedom than the Russian one, well let me tell you one thing. The Russian Constitution says that media has freedom of informing people. If Putin or anyone else tries to prevent them from doing so, that person, can get arrested and prosecuted for violation of the Constitution. The people who defected from Soviet Union were not the real representation of the truth about life in USSR.

No, I am not expecting Fidel Castro do be telling Cuban citizens to leave Cuba and go to USA, and telling them how good the life is in USA. I am saying that West infiltrates specially trained people who melt with the rest of the society and spread propaganda among the people. The East has been doing the same things. But West is still doing it.

You still didn't answer my question. Where are you from originally?

And you mentioned people not willing to go back to USSR, and Russia after leaving to the USA. Well, it isn't because they don't want communism, it is because the will have a trial for treason.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:38 AM
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---edited for double post---



[edit on 1-12-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:39 AM
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---edited for error and double post---



[edit on 1-12-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by khruschev
You say that US media has more freedom than the Russian one, well let me tell you one thing. The Russian Constitution says that media has freedom of informing people. If Putin or anyone else tries to prevent them from doing so, that person, can get arrested and prosecuted for violation of the Constitution. The people who defected from Soviet Union were not the real representation of the truth about life in USSR.

No, I am not expecting Fidel Castro do be telling Cuban citizens to leave Cuba and go to USA, and telling them how good the life is in USA. I am saying that West infiltrates specially trained people who melt with the rest of the society and spread propaganda among the people. The East has been doing the same things. But West is still doing it.

You still didn't answer my question. Where are you from originally?

And you mentioned people not willing to go back to USSR, and Russia after leaving to the USA. Well, it isn't because they don't want communism, it is because the will have a trial for treason.


First off, the west doesn't have to infiltrate any country to show that democracy is better than communism.... anyone with enough knowledge of what happens in the world knows that the countries which people flee from are communist as well as other dictatorships... You don't see people from the U.S.A flee en mass as what people in Cuba and Russia do, well used to do in Russia, now Russian women use dating websites trying to get out of there. you don't see American or Brittish military defecting to Russia or China or NK... but many defectors leave those countries...

Second, you seemed to ahve missed the links and excerpts i gave on my post before this one... putin has in many ways gone against what is in your new Constitution and nothing has happened to him.

And if you have to know, I was born in Cuba.. i still have family there. Although i don't know why you would ask me where i was from... there is nothing you can say that will hide the truth of the evil and attrocities that have been caused, and still happen in a few countries, in the name of communism...

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:39 AM
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Have you seen the before and after pictures of the "other guy" (the challenger)?

His face is now all blotchy, and one Medic (ok this is a diagnosis from photos) suggested this compares to dioxin poisoning.

Looks like they were trying to get rid of the guy. not surprising after the attepted poisoning of the Journalist to with the Beslan Shcool siege.

Cloak and dagger stuff here kids


[edit on 1/12/2004 by Corinthas]



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