The Two Tribulations: Where Preterism and Dispensationalism Meet.

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posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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To Christians: Confess your known sins privately to God the Father so that the Holy Spirit may fill you and reveal any truth that exists in this post (1 John 1:9).

Hello fellow ATSers,

I have something I would like to discuss with the Christians of ATS. The discussion is not limited to Christians, but it does require a certain amount of knowledge in biblical theology.

The theory I would like to propose is that there are indeed two sets of 7 year Tribulations in the Bible. One obviously occured around 70 AD under Nero, and the other is yet to occur. This subject is a source of endless argument between preterists and futurists. Rather than seeing both Tribulations, preterists hold fast to the Tribulation under Nero, while most Dispensationalists are expecting a future Tribulation to occur at any given moment in the future. I believe that if we were to examine the NT in its original language, we would see that both sides of the argument are indeed correct. The first Tribulation was primarily aimed at the Church, while the 70th Week of the future will be aimed at the Children of Israel.

Where is the evidence for this? Its encrypted in the Hebrew and Greek meter of the Old and New Testament. For those who are not familiar with my research; The Hebrew/Greek meter is a poetic rhetorical style of metering the syllables of prophetic passages in multiples of biblical numbers (primarily 7). This is similar to the metering of the syllables of a song or a rap. Only time-poems are metered. For example, Psalm 90, the prayer of Daniel 9, parts of Ephesians, parts of Revelation, Mary's Magnificat, and Isaiah 52+53 allbexpress metering patterns that correspond with each other in an interactive way. This meter can be used to establish a timeline from the Fall of Adam that extends to the penning of Revelation in 94 AD. Currently in 2014 AD, this is the year 6122 AF (After Fall). The meter is real, it can be tested, and it unifies the entire Bible excluding the Apocrypha, LXX and the various Psuedopigrapha.

For more info on the meter, and evidence for the two Tibulations, go here:

www.brainout.net...

The bible's meter shows that God dispenses time to humanity in installments of 490+70+490 years. This is a total of 1,050 years. First, at least one person must mature enough in faith for God to award 490 years of existance to the world. Then, comes a 70 year period for believers to choose the path of progressive faith-maturity. If enough believers vote yes to walking the path of faith, God provides another 490 years for at least one person to mature. The last 50 years (jubilee) of the last 490 of the 1,050 year block is a time for non-believes to convert. If there arent enough new believers, then God cannot justify giving the world the opportunity to earn another 490 years. This is what Gabriel meant when he told Daniel that 70 weeks of years were decreed to complete the transgression of Israel. These 70 weeks represent the last 490 years of Israel's Age. This is the basis for the 70th Week, which is the last 7 years of Israel's Age, aka the Tribulation of the Book of Revelation.

So, if the 70th Week is still future, where does the 70 AD Tribulation come from? Well, it is a wrinkle in time caused by Abraham. While Abraham was alive, he was living in the 490 years that Noah earned by faith. Abraham was quickly approaching the end of the 490 year Age, and it it was up to him to earn the prospect for more time with his faith. Abraham lived up to the challenge, and reached spiritual maturity 54 years before the end of his Age. This extra 54 years created by his early maturity had to be credited back to mankind, and most of it has been. BUT, there are 7 years left to be credited.

So, how has this active time-credit been dispensed? Well, 7 years of the credit belongs to Israel's 70 Weeks spoken of in Daniel 9. Another 7 years are given to test the integrity of the Church as a proto-type creation, while the remaining 40 years belonged to the Temple. This is how it plays out: Jesus came, and at the age of 33 was rejected and executed by the Children of Israel. This execution happened in the year 30 AD, just 7 years before the End of the Age. Then, after 40 years (number of testing) pass from the cross, the Temple is destroyed, just as Jesus prophecized. The destruction of the temple then marked the beginning of the Church's Tribulation, carried out by Nero. Now, only 7 years are left on the time-credit, and that belongs to Israel. The reason almost 2,000 years have passed without the world ending, is because Jesus pruchased time for the Church to exist to bridge the gap between 30 AD and the 70th week of Israel. When the Rapture happens (and it will), it will mark the continuation of Israel's remaining time-credit of 7 years. So, 40+7+7=54 years.

This is not new information...instead, it is forgotten information. It was burried under oppression, ignorance, laziness, and apostacy. Had Israel remembered the meter time-line, they would have recognized Jesus for the Messiah that He is. Had the Church preserved this knowledge, there would be unity rather than dissention and strife. Its time that we let go of our pride, and see the bible for what it is...you just might find out how much time WE have left. Now you know why we are called "salt of the earth".

To the shills and scoffers, this is not a place for you to perpetuate ignorance and offence. If you have an honest question, ask it...an honest opinion, state it...an honest claim, back it up with evidence.

Do not accuse me of being a Zionist just because I support Dispensational ideas...I AM AGAINST POLITICAL ZIONISM. And, Im tired of hearing the unfounded claim that Darby "invented" the rapture. It is not true, if you want to start that argument, take it to your own thread. This thread provides evidence that the Pre-Tribulation Harpazo (Rapture) IS dogmatically true.

If you feel that my explanation is insufficient, dont gripe at me until you have examined the data in the link I have provided above.




posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


it would take a month to get through your link....are you freaking kidding me!?

you tie our hands unless we read through your link.....expect this thread to go......nowhere.

oh....and it's all crap.....everything has already been fulfilled. So, yes I am a preterist

edit on 31-3-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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It goes further than just two and just the tribulation. The action,cause and effect of bible stories is being played out on a daily basis. It is the major ones that get noticed. It seems to be someting like a wave siginuture that is constantly cresting around us. His will be done.
edit on 31-3-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


it would take a month to get through your link....are you freaking kidding me!?

you tie our hands unless we read through your link.....expect this thread to go......nowhere.

oh....and it's all crap.....everything has already been fulfilled.

If you are correct then we have nothing but time and raises the question of why are you shatting here then.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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deadeyedick

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


it would take a month to get through your link....are you freaking kidding me!?

you tie our hands unless we read through your link.....expect this thread to go......nowhere.

oh....and it's all crap.....everything has already been fulfilled.

If you are correct then we have nothing but time and raises the question of why are you shatting here then.


that is where you are wrong....time is of the essence .... we need to be spreading the word of God...the teachings of Christ.

but death (absence from God in the afterlife) has been bound. Jesus has set up the new Kingdom....

let me ask you this....if you died right now....where would you go? If you say "Why, Heaven of course!"....then the new Kingdom must be set up and waiting for you. And if this is true....then everything is fulfilled.

as for me shatting?.....grow up



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


I believe that with history, time might be chronological, meaning that it goes forward, but also cyclical. That's why we see events repeating themselves throughout history.

A cyclical time for tribulation events? Certainly.

Case in point: Revelation says that 1/3 of mankind would be destroyed, 1/3 of all Europeans were killed in the Black Plague.

Another case in point : When God made Adam and Eve, He blessed them and told them to go and "replenish" the earth. To replenish means to add back what was taken out, so that suggests a great event that happened before. Some say that is called tohu wabohu.

I don't think we should approach the Bible as straight chronology, because there are many cyclical things that happen, and happen again, throughout history.
edit on 3/31/2014 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:12 PM
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WarminIndy
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


I believe that with history, time might be chronological, meaning that it goes forward, but also cyclical. That's why we see events repeating themselves throughout history.

A cyclical time for tribulation events? Certainly.

Case in point: Revelation says that 1/3 of mankind would be destroyed, 1/3 of all Europeans were killed in the Black Plague.

Another case in point : When God made Adam and Eve, He blessed them and told them to go and "replenish" the earth. To replenish means to add back what was taken out, so that suggests a great event that happened before. Some say that is called tohu wabohu.

I don't think we should approach the Bible as straight chronology, because there are many cyclical things that happen, and happen again, throughout history.
edit on 3/31/2014 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)


where does it say "replenish"? It says be fruitful and multiply....I can't find "replenish"

also...you have to remember WHO the new testament was written to.....you are aware that they are letters ... right? The New Testament was written to the Jews of that time....so when Revelations says a third of the people will be wiped out....it means a third of the Jews .... and now go see how many the Romans wiped out....



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I think the meter proves that time is chronological cycles. When the cycle is interrupted with another cycle, the interrupted cycle must at some point continue.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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IF it were in fact true, I doubt that the Jesuits would be peddling it...


Darby admitted that he had been influenced by the writings of the Jesuit De Lacunza

www.upwardcall.net...

The early church NEVER believed in a pre-trib rapture. The Reformers NEVER believed in a pre-trib rapture.

Only the CURRENT CHURCH believes in a pre-trib rapture. It has fallen away from a post tribulation, SINGLE EVENT rapture and coming of the Lord.

The apostasy of a Pre-tribulation Rapture has been brought upon us by FUTURISM, a Jesuit, Rome inspired doctrine to keep our eyes off the POPE and the mystery religion of Rome.

Where the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory Came From and Why You Shouldn’t Believe It





edit on Mar000000Mon, 31 Mar 2014 22:21:39 -050010pm31Mon, 31 Mar 2014 22:21:39 -050020142131 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:26 PM
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UxoriousMagnus

WarminIndy
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


I believe that with history, time might be chronological, meaning that it goes forward, but also cyclical. That's why we see events repeating themselves throughout history.

A cyclical time for tribulation events? Certainly.

Case in point: Revelation says that 1/3 of mankind would be destroyed, 1/3 of all Europeans were killed in the Black Plague.

Another case in point : When God made Adam and Eve, He blessed them and told them to go and "replenish" the earth. To replenish means to add back what was taken out, so that suggests a great event that happened before. Some say that is called tohu wabohu.

I don't think we should approach the Bible as straight chronology, because there are many cyclical things that happen, and happen again, throughout history.
edit on 3/31/2014 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)


where does it say "replenish"? It says be fruitful and multiply....I can't find "replenish"

also...you have to remember WHO the new testament was written to.....you are aware that they are letters ... right? The New Testament was written to the Jews of that time....so when Revelations says a third of the people will be wiped out....it means a third of the Jews .... and now go see how many the Romans wiped out....


Here

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27-29


What book are you in? This is the KJV.

Yes, I am very aware they were letters. And the letter of Revelation was sent to whom? The SEVEN CHURCHES IN ASIA. Christians who came from converted pagans. Asia was Asia Minor, which is Turkey today.

The Letters of Corinthians? Corinth, Greece; Thessalonians? Thessaloniki, Greece; Ephesians? Ephesus, Asia Minor; Philippians? Philipi, Macedonia; Galatians? Gallia, Asia Minor.

Would you care to remember Lydia? Illyria, Macedonia. Where were the men from who Paul had the vision of? Macedonia.

Who were the letters written to? Greek Christians.

James was to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

1 and 2 Peter was to Jewish Christians.

Romans was to the CHURCH AT ROME.

1 and 2 Timothy, to Timothy, Greek. His mother and grandmother were Jewish believers but his father was a Greek gentile.

Hebrews, to the Jewish Christians.

!, 2, 3 John, Jews and Christians in Jerusalem.

Did I forget any? And I didn't even have to look this up, I already knew it.


edit on 3/31/2014 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:29 PM
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UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


it would take a month to get through your link....are you freaking kidding me!?

you tie our hands unless we read through your link.....expect this thread to go......nowhere.

oh....and it's all crap.....everything has already been fulfilled. So, yes I am a preterist

edit on 31-3-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)


A month? No. A day or two, maybe. I practice the long lost art of skimming. You should try it some day, you might learn something new.

If your excuse is that my source of data is too long, then you dont belong here. This is a thread for hardcore researchers. Ive given a crash course on the research found in the link, all you have to do is compare it to the data in the link.

Contribute to the subject or go somewhere else. Its obvious that you cant see past your denominational barriers.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


This directly refutes the false claims against the rapture....and I already told you, I didnt start this thread to debate over the anti-rapture propaganda.

beginningandend.com...



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


I am the first to admit, I am not Orthodox Christian. What I have done is try to remove every denominational teaching and see what the Bible itself is saying. If I don't understand, I ask God what is meant. I try to look at it with the same objectivity as I do history.

I have come to believe that God is so ultimate and before any religion ever existed and has revealed Himself throughout time to all people. God was before the Hebrews ever became a people and knew Him. But I find references to God in ancient literature, I just don't embrace all theological or religious systems, I am not a Universalist or Unitarian. I believe that even though references were made and Jesus did say that He had sheep of another fold, I don't know who is in that fold, but He went to look for them.

I also believe that God entered into covenant with Abraham, and covenant with Moses. And it is through those two covenants that God has sent Jesus through. That's why knowing Jewish history is important.

But God said He establishes covenants by His own word and can not swear by anything higher than Himself, so He swears by Himself. And His word is established in heaven...forever. We can't change His word. Jesus knows where to go to find His sheep, even for us today who are His sheep. As Peter said "this is for you and your children and those that are far off". Yes, you and I are both far off from that day, but it is for us nonetheless.

We need to stop telling Jesus what to do, He is going to do exactly what He said He would do, and it means salvation for the Jews, as He said would happen, so it will. We aren't going to change that, no matter what theological or doctrinal stance we believe, it does not ever change what Jesus said He would do.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I agree with you. I too consider myself non-denominational, however, I do see some truth in both dispesationalism and parts of preterism, so for the sake of categorization, I do lable myself from time to time. By the same token, my ideas are almost universally rejected by dispensationalists and preterists alike because while I do believe in the pre-tribulational rapture, I am also called a "date-setter". I also believe in both predestination and free will to be two sides of the same coin.

Its not wrong to absorb the teachings of multiple denominations. I simply take their claims, throw them at the bible and see what sticks. After all, "we know in part until the perfect comes". The point is, we cannot be anchored into one denomination, the word of God is above all denominations.

In this particular case, the bible's meter explicitly states that there are two 7 year tribulations present, one fulfilled, and one to come, and the Church will not be a part of the one to come. These are not the only times of tribulation mentioned in the bible, but they are the ones that can reconcile the chasm between preterism and futurism. In doing so with the meter, a case for clear cut dispensations or covenant-ages becomes more obvious.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 12:12 AM
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BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I agree with you. I too consider myself non-denominational, however, I do see some truth in both dispesationalism and parts of preterism, so for the sake of categorization, I do lable myself from time to time. By the same token, my ideas are almost universally rejected by dispensationalists and preterists alike because while I do believe in the pre-tribulational rapture, I am also called a "date-setter". I also believe in both predestination and free will to be two sides of the same coin.

Its not wrong to absorb the teachings of multiple denominations. I simply take their claims, throw them at the bible and see what sticks. After all, "we know in part until the perfect comes". The point is, we cannot be anchored into one denomination, the word of God is above all denominations.

In this particular case, the bible's meter explicitly states that there are two 7 year tribulations present, one fulfilled, and one to come, and the Church will not be a part of the one to come. These are not the only times of tribulation mentioned in the bible, but they are the ones that can reconcile the chasm between preterism and futurism. In doing so with the meter, a case for clear cut dispensations or covenant-ages becomes more obvious.



I just think what is going to happen will happen. And certainly there have been many times of tribulations throughout history.

French Huguenots were persecuted and killed. Mennonites were persecuted and killed. Christians were in the concentration camps with the Jews. Wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation.

Did you hear that there may just be an active volcano near Los Angeles? What if it grows?

We are living in the times that the prophets saw. Zechariah described nuclear bombs. The whole world can see an event, at one time.


Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


If people say He was talking to the Jews, then the Jews are elect. If He were talking to the Christians then great tribulation would come.


Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


He doesn't come until after the great tribulation that has not been since the beginning. But we have gone through tribulations and will do so until then end.

What is really interesting here is that Jesus is talking and yet doesn't say "When I come", He says "When the Son of Man comes"

And it is His angels doing the gathering.

Do you want to hear something strange? And this is true, but most people won't believe me, because they are too cynical to grasp these things.

When my grandmother was dying of liver cancer, we had her at home. On her last morning, as she was actively dying, I was waiting for her Hospice nurse to come. Just days before this my grandmother kept saying she was seeing Jesus. But this morning was different. I could sense a change in the atmosphere. My brother decided to take his karaoke machine and sing to her. I went into another room and closed the door, so I wouldn't bother him with my phone calls to the nurse.

While I was in between phone calls, I was waiting and playing a game on the computer, he was in there with her singing to her. I heard a woman's voice plain as day say "Are you ready?" coming from her room. I jumped up and went in there to see what was going on, I asked my brother if he heard her say anything. He was shaking and said no, but he saw a grey shadow come across her and went down her body. This is a man who was in the Marine Corp. He wasn't afraid of anything. But to see him standing there shaking and terrified at what he saw, but I had heard the voice myself. It was surreal. Then a few minutes later the Hospice nurse came in and looked at her, without pausing, said "She's gone, her muscles are just reacting to the lack of oxygen". A few minutes later her mouth stopped and that was it. I then helped the Hospice nurse clean her body and the nurse called my mother at work to inform her.

But I have no doubt this was an angel sent to gather her. I heard it and my brother saw it. I remember when I was young, our pastor said "Jesus comes for some people and Jesus comes to some people". I told my grandmother, the next time you see Jesus come for you, it's ok to go. She was in terrible pain and death was a relief.

This shaking in the heavens, maybe it's death.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Thank you for sharing about your grandmother. It is no doubt, that whatever bad times we face, death will always be a relief for believers. I do not question that bad times are coming, especially to America. The time for America is almost up (less the 3 years now). Many will die, more will suffer, probably even myself. But, I do not believe the Old Testament prophets saw the age we are in now, for this age was a mystery that was hidden from them. The Church was "Plan B" had Israel rejected Christ, and they did. So Israel's time will continue when the Church covenant is fulfilled. The interrupted cycle will be completed. That is when the prophecies that the OT prophets saw will come to pass. That is why the rapture must occur. Not so much to prevent us from suffering (for all we know, few of us will survive to see the rapture), but to remove the Church for the completion of Israel's covenant.

I know it seems trivial, but the rapture is important. It teaches that God has not forgotten about Israel, that Israel turned down the opportunity to become the Bride of Christ, and that we need to recognize and be greatful for bearing the gift that has been handed down to us that was first offered to Israel.

My aim is not to cause stife among the denominations, but to show them cold hard evidence that God has not and will not violate nor forsake any of His covenants.

After almost 2,000 years of prophetic silence God has finally revealed the year of the End of the Age. He has told these things to His prophet, that it will be September of 2023. No man knows the exact day/ hour for the tribulation will be cut short for the elect (Israel).

gods-messenger.webs.com/

The revelation of the year fits the pattern of the meter. The times is now for the Church to wake up and begin waking the dead, but to unify the Church, the order of the "times and ages" must first be understood. How else would we recognise the message? The knowledge of the "times and ages" was not for the disciples to know, for they were charged with establishing the Church. But now the Lord has revealed this knowledge by His authority so that we might gather the rest of our kind for our departure.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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UxoriousMagnus

deadeyedick

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


it would take a month to get through your link....are you freaking kidding me!?

you tie our hands unless we read through your link.....expect this thread to go......nowhere.

oh....and it's all crap.....everything has already been fulfilled.

If you are correct then we have nothing but time and raises the question of why are you shatting here then.


that is where you are wrong....time is of the essence .... we need to be spreading the word of God...the teachings of Christ.

but death (absence from God in the afterlife) has been bound. Jesus has set up the new Kingdom....

let me ask you this....if you died right now....where would you go? If you say "Why, Heaven of course!"....then the new Kingdom must be set up and waiting for you. And if this is true....then everything is fulfilled.

as for me shatting?.....grow up
amos 5 The Coming Judgment
…17"And in all the vineyards there is wailing, Because I will pass through the midst of you," says the LORD. 18Alas, you who are longing for the day of the LORD, For what purpose will the day of the LORD be to you? It will be darkness and not light; 19As when a man flees from a lion And a bear meets him, Or goes home, leans his hand against the wall And a snake bites him.…

The pre trib rapture has already occoured. It was done in the animal kingdom right in front of our eyes.
In the shuffling madness
Of the locomotive breath,
Runs the all-time loser,
Headlong to his death.
He feels the piston scraping --
Steam breaking on his brow --
Old Charlie stole the handle and
The train won't stop going --
No way to slow down.
He sees his children jumping off
At the stations -- one by one.
His woman and his best friend --
In bed and having fun.
He's crawling down the corridor
On his hands and knees --
Old Charlie stole the handle and
The train won't stop going --
No way to slow down.
He hears the silence howling --
Catches angels as they fall.
And the all-time winner
Has got him by the balls.
He picks up Gideon's Bible --
Open at page one --
God stole the handle and
The train won't stop going --
No way to slow down.
edit on 1-4-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 





Text To the shills and scoffers, this is not a place for you to perpetuate ignorance and offence. If you have an honest question, ask it...an honest opinion, state it...an honest claim, back it up with evidence. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

To understand your premise is to understand exactly what you reference. When you say “two seven year tribulations” are you referencing the Great Tribulation of Revelation with that of “Jacob’s Trouble” which is written by the prophet Jeremiah?

Jeremiah has written this prophecy in about 463 to 410 BCE according to the Jewish time line encyclopedia. That was after Judah and Benjamin fell to the Babylonians. In the chapters 30 and 31 of Jeremiah, he does write that the Hebrew tribes will once again be unified before Jacob’s trouble. By this I assumed that Jeremiah’s prophecy concerns all twelve tribes of Jacob. Jeremiah does refer this to Israel which is regarded as a separate nation from Judah at this time and that leaves quite a controversy of understanding among some people. The reason I said this is that Jeremiah does say that all of the families of Israel will become His people. I took this as to infer that the word “families” meant tribes of Israel. Some others insist that this means all people.

Nevertheless, the point I make is that the families (tribes) of Israel had not been unified at the time of Jesus. The Jewish people at that time were of a mixed blood but that is not what I mean. What I mean is that the tribes of Israel were scattered all over the world even in 70 CE. Actually the sacking of Jerusalem was more so in 135 CE than it was in 70 CE and had absolutely no effect upon an Ashkenazic Jew or a Sephardic Jew. The twelve tribes have never been gathered before 1948 and have still not all been gathered. By this I cannot understand how a seven years Jacob’s tribulation has ever occurred or even how two are even considered preterit.

With my understanding there is only one future Great Tribulation and that is Jacob’s Trouble and that is described in Revelation by the author of the book of Revelation. Revelation distinctly shows that 144.000 people of the twelve tribes will be saved and this implies to me that the tribes are unified at this time. Jeremiah writes that the 12 tribes are unified at the Great Tribulation period and I see nothing that shows me that they are to this date. Revelation infers to me that all people are involved in the Great Tribulation and not just certain people such as some suppose.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Seede
 


I think you misunderstood my OP. You are correct in stating that the 12 tibes are not regathered today, not in 70 AD nor in Jesus' day. The time of Jacob's Trouble aka the 70th Week is coming in the future. What I was pointing to was that the 7 year period of slaughter between 70 AD to 77 AD was a Tribulation for the Church...if you will, the time of the Church's Trouble. The Church's Tribulation is what the preterists acknowledge, where as the time of Jacob's Trouble is what futurists are expecting. I say, they are both true. One tribulation per covenant (Gentiles and Jews).



posted on Apr, 9 2014 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 





The bible's meter shows that God dispenses time to humanity in installments of 490+70+490 years. This is a total of 1,050 years. First, at least one person must mature enough in faith for God to award 490 years of existance to the world. Then, comes a 70 year period for believers to choose the path of progressive faith-maturity. If enough believers vote yes to walking the path of faith, God provides another 490 years for at least one person to mature. The last 50 years (jubilee) of the last 490 of the 1,050 year block is a time for non-believes to convert. If there arent enough new believers, then God cannot justify giving the world the opportunity to earn another 490 years. This is what Gabriel meant when he told Daniel that 70 weeks of years were decreed to complete the transgression of Israel. These 70 weeks represent the last 490 years of Israel's Age. This is the basis for the 70th Week, which is the last 7 years of Israel's Age, aka the Tribulation of the Book of Revelation - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Can you explain where you are pulling these numbers from, and there meanings. Like what verses show these time installments. What verses explain what the time installments are given for.





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