Worshipping Satan?

Jesuslives4u

network dude
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

Why do you believe there has to be a Satan?

Is God so mundane that he cannot have power without an adversary?

Why would a follower of Christ even offer a moments thought to evil?

If you devoted the energy you are giving to Satan, to Jesus, wouldn't that make Jesus stronger? At least in your heart?

Do you not believe in Satan or in an evil one with great power. One who has authority and power over mankind? I do.

My heart is full of Jesus , this does not mean I should not learn the other side? What I prefer to call "lost souls" how do you expect to convert one if you do not know who they are and what they feel?

The dark side does not scare me.

I've always wondered, if one truly fills their heart with Jesus, believes in a benevolent God who is the father of Jesus, and believes in omnipresences and omnipotence, then how can that person also believe in evil? If a benevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent creator makes something, or allows something, isn't it automatically good? It doesn't happen without the creators presence and authority, so if that creator is benevolent, then all things are good.

I think it is an impossible and illogical to believe in both Jesus and Satan.

Now, if you are asking about Lucifer, and a few character changes in the Bible which might flip the protagonist and antagonist, then that is a GREAT question. If Lucifer was the defender of mankind, and the enlightener that convinced man to eat from the tree of knowledge, and God/Jesus has been working ever since to undo it and put us back into darkness by convincing us that blind faith is the only way to salvation..... then you have a good question. I wonder, given the two stories, and the life experiences on earth, which story makes more sense?

reply to post by 3shadesofblack


that would mean though, that there would be only one side of the spectrum in existence. God allows for ALL possibilities to exist. The full spectrum. Ultimate good, ultimate evil and everything in between. The choice must exist. Light & dark. God creates beings with free will and the choice is there's as to which side to align your actions with.

i've heard christians say "God uses Satan's freewill to do evil to test humanity and to disgust humanity, prompting penance and a return to God. All things are part of God's will. "

reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov


Well that is less than benevolent then.

Why does there need to be a choice at all? If there does need to be a choice, then the God is less than omnipotent and less than benevolent.

Does God have a dark side? And if so, then how is that any different from Satan or Lucifer?

As soon as a devout Christian starts to attribute human characteristics or motivations to their Creator, then they limit that creator, and thus it is no longer omnipotent and omnipresent, OR it is no longer benevolent.

3shadesofblack
reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov

 

Well that is less than benevolent then.

Why does there need to be a choice at all? If there does need to be a choice, then the God is less than omnipotent and less than benevolent.

Does God have a dark side? And if so, then how is that any different from Satan or Lucifer?

As soon as a devout Christian starts to attribute human characteristics or motivations to their Creator, then they limit that creator, and thus it is no longer omnipotent and omnipresent, OR it is no longer benevolent.

Less than benevolent? It sucks but we learn when we are faced with conflict. We learn from our experiences. Good and bad. So both must exist.

There needs to be a choice because there is free will and again the allowance for all possibilities. This makes no effect on the power of God. I would say God does not have a "dark side".

That's different from satan/lucifer because he/it/whatever was created as an angel, who chose to rebel because he had that free will.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not a "christian" and wasn't raised as one. These are questions people have been asking since the beginning of time and philosophers debate these points still. Regardless of what characteristics humans attribute to their creator that does not effect that creator. People are constantly trying to quantize everything into neat little piles and boxes. I don't think that is possible with EVERYTHING.

reply to post by CallmeRaskolnikov


If there is freewill, then the creator is not omnipotent. The notion of freewill means there is necessarily a limit to the powers of the creator.

The attributes humans ascribe to a creator will always fall short and make the notion of that creator flawed. We cannot possibly describe or comprehend something that could have created us, and therefore all religion will always be flawed.

Religous doctrine indicates God's plan is for humans to become "God-like" and eventually reside with God. If that is the case for a mere human, then imagine God's goals for an angel like Lucifer. If God entrusted us and the angel with freewill, then we possess a power that God cannot control, and in that narrow way are more powerful than God.

When looking at religions and myths around the world, Gods have often been defeated and/or killed by men. Gods have been tricked by men, Gods have been driven away by men, etc., etc.

The OP asks why someone would choose to worship Satan. I think Satan is a character in literature, not a deity, but if someone is so imposed to worship something, and they read all the works available, and they look at it through the paradigm of history and experience here on Earth, then why wouldn't they choose to worship Lucifer? Lucifer seems to have an edge over God. Seems to be more honest and forthcoming with mankind. Seems to have been given domain over this realm where man lives. God didn't destroy him. God hasn't succeeded in destroying us, even with the flood.

I'm not picking a side, I'm just trying to spin the OPs question. If I were the type that believed all of the written works of mankind, and I believed the Bible to be a powerful account that may come straight from the retellings of Jesus himself, and I were to be prone to blind faith, I might choose the side of the deity that was looking out for me, rather than expecting me to believe that he was omnipotent, but gave me freewill anyway, and expected me to believe prayer and faith could save me, but also expected me to believe all the suffering on earth is necessary, good, or purely a result of the freewill we were blessed with.

Blind faith is a frightening, frightening thing, and humans have been murdering each other over minute idiosyncrasies in that blind faith for millenia. Doesn't seem very benevolent or omnipotent to me.

tsingtao

Krazysh0t
What kind of Satanism are you referring to? Satanism

Or are your perhaps talking about some made up Satanism where people LITERALLY worship evil and want the end of the world to come? Because I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who not only will admit to worshiping a church like that, but admit to being that evil.

edit on 31-3-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

yeah, that's the one!

Do you really think this person would be intelligent enough to figure out how to turn a computer on, find the internet, find ATS, create an account, find your thread, then post a reply to your thread?

Or for that matter do you actually think that they know who satin is?



Edit to add: the closest thing your going to find online to what your looking for is the order of nine angels www.o9a.org/

reply to post by 3shadesofblack


Here are the answers to the contradictions you pointed out, according to the bible.

First off, The Bible does not support the view that God knows everything (omniscience). God puts obstacles in people's way in order to figure out what is in their hearts, which means he did not already know (Deuteronomy 8:2/2 Chronicles 32:31/Genesis 18:20-21). God also asks questions such as "who are these men with you?" (Numbers 22:9) and "where are you?" (Genesis 3:8-13).

So, if God does not know everything, then it does not contradict with free-will or how evil came into the world.

Which leads to another question, can God do anything (omnipotence)?

According to The Bible, God sent Jesus Christ because it is his Will (Plan/Wish) in order to save all the lost souls ("scattered sheep") from evil. According to The Bible, not every soul will actually be saved though, those deceived by The Devil will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10) in order to get rid of evil - and Death and Hell (Hades) itself will be destroyed too by the Lake of Fire which is the second death (Revelation 20:14) - the destruction of the spirit which God has power to destroy (Matthew 10:28). God's plan was for all men to have salvation, but the devil will deceive so that it doesn't actually happen (1 Timothy 2:4).

So, God is not all powerful since his will for all to be saved is being stopped by Satan's deception.

If God is keeping spirits in Hades (The Grave, The Darkness, Hell) away from him and later he will judge them and throw them into The Lake of Fire to destroy their spirits for being evil - then does God truly love everyone (omnibenevolence)?

God hates the foolish and does not want them in his presence (Psalm 5:5).

God hates those who love violence (Psalm 11:5).

God hates 6 things: lies, murder, evil intentions, troublemaking, and those who disrupt the peace to cause discord (Proverbs 6:16-19)

God hates those who do evil (Hosea 9:15)

so, the idea that The God of The Bible has omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence is debunked.

reply to post by arpgme


Thank you! That was excellent and informative.

Now, with that in mind, of course those are all Biblical references, which is fine, but with that in mind, as an uninitiated person, collecting all evidence available, assuming no preconceived notions, how do you suppose a person would choose between Christ and Lucifer?

Our society is strongly engineered toward Jesus of course, so it makes it difficult to speculate. But suppose a person read the Christian Bible, and the Luciferian texts, and studied world history extensively, and became familiar with other mysticisms and mythology. If they made an educated decision outside of societal influence, which decision is logical or based on more data, logic, history, and personal observation?

I am not a Luciferian, and truth be told, I am much closer to Christianity, but it bugs me how Christians can seem so condenscending and not be able to fathom a person making the opposite choice. They seem like pretty equal choices to me, and I think history would show Lucifer being a little better choice for a human on earth. Whether or not it is the correct eternal choice is debatable.

reply to post by 3shadesofblack

3shadesofblack
Now, with that in mind, of course those are all Biblical references, which is fine, but with that in mind, as an uninitiated person, collecting all evidence available, assuming no preconceived notions, how do you suppose a person would choose between Christ and Lucifer?
...
If they made an educated decision outside of societal influence, which decision is logical or based on more data, logic, history, and personal observation?

Based on what Luciferians believe and The Bible, it seems that Lucifer is more associated with Self-Empowerment (becoming stronger, learning more, etc) while Christ is associated with Humility (Don't have a high opinion of yourself, Give to those who ask of you, etc). The Luciferian teachings seems to focus on not being taken advantage of and appreciating your free-will while loving yourself while the teachings of Christ seems focus more on loving others and not taking advantage of others.

If we all focused on loving ourselves, there is a possible danger that we may become selfish to the point of hurting others, BUT, we won't have such low self-esteem and trying to pretend to be something that we are not (gangs, etc.), and with improving ourselves and gaining knowledge, we'll learn that the best way to maintain free-will is to also encourage others to appreciate their free-will too (to avoid things like tyrants that control to abuse others).

If we all focused on loving others, there is a possible danger of being taken advantage of by selfish people who are happy that you give and give and forgive, BUT that humility of loving and giving to others will make you feel good that you helped others be happy. Also, humility will get a lot more people to like you, but like I said, the possible danger of this is selfish people taking advantage of these humble people (which is why most Christians are not as humble as Jesus said to be in his Sermon on The Mount teachings).

My personal way of going about things, is to be more appreciative so I can be happy and feel less neediness while helping other people in a way that feels natural to me and makes me happy (such as learning many things and telling it to others or offering advice when in person).

arpgme


Here are the answers to the contradictions you pointed out, according to the bible.

First off, The Bible does not support the view that God knows everything (omniscience). God puts obstacles in people's way in order to figure out what is in their hearts, which means he did not already know (Deuteronomy 8:2/2 Chronicles 32:31/Genesis 18:20-21). God also asks questions such as "who are these men with you?" (Numbers 22:9) and "where are you?" (Genesis 3:8-13).

So, if God does not know everything, then it does not contradict with free-will or how evil came into the world.

Which leads to another question, can God do anything (omnipotence)?

According to The Bible, God sent Jesus Christ because it is his Will (Plan/Wish) in order to save all the lost souls ("scattered sheep") from evil. According to The Bible, not every soul will actually be saved though, those deceived by The Devil will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10) in order to get rid of evil - and Death and Hell (Hades) itself will be destroyed too by the Lake of Fire which is the second death (Revelation 20:14) - the destruction of the spirit which God has power to destroy (Matthew 10:28). God's plan was for all men to have salvation, but the devil will deceive so that it doesn't actually happen (1 Timothy 2:4).

So, God is not all powerful since his will for all to be saved is being stopped by Satan's deception.

If God is keeping spirits in Hades (The Grave, The Darkness, Hell) away from him and later he will judge them and throw them into The Lake of Fire to destroy their spirits for being evil - then does God truly love everyone (omnibenevolence)?

God hates the foolish and does not want them in his presence (Psalm 5:5).

God hates those who love violence (Psalm 11:5).

God hates 6 things: lies, murder, evil intentions, troublemaking, and those who disrupt the peace to cause discord (Proverbs 6:16-19)

God hates those who do evil (Hosea 9:15)

so, the idea that The God of The Bible has omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence is debunked.

edit on 3-4-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

This is very,very poor convoluted logic at best.Your "according to the bible" logic has conjectured multiple hypothesis and formed implausible definitive conclusions.You know neither the scriptures nor the power of the creator God. I suggest you stop this kind of foolishness,if you don't know how to present an argument.

reply to post by Rex282


???

They quoted directly from scripture, where is your issue? Is it with the conclusions drawn from that scripture?

If so, how would you respond to my earlier post about the existence of both an omnipresent, omnipotent, and omnipresent God, who is omnibenevolent while also believing in the existence of evil. Seems mutually exclusive to me, and it is one of my main issues with Christianity as a whole. If you don't like arpgme response, then what is your response?

reply to post by Rex282



At least he/she sited some sources there. And you accuse them of not knowing how to form a proper argument lol. That's the pot calling the spoon black there

The OP is just calling Cult Ritual Abuses satanists.

Hes not asking about if some people are in a club and worship satan as simply good standing citizens.

It could be a cult or multipul cults that use occaltic methods using the same symbols as self proclaimed * Satanists* Who believe in the bible, some imaginary being that takes up the expanse of the entire universe. One singular being to create all of existance but yet is existance itself simply isn't true.

And that's why many atheists and satanists move towards the direction of staying away from the bible.
But all the bible is, is a collection of ancient scrolls some of which were hidden for thousands of years in caves and in tombs.

You can't just descredit everything on it, even with religious dogma there is silver linings of truth.
Tho Satan as a character was not in the original story persay, The church changed almost every name in these collected scrolls to better fit an english audiance. The hebrew sects only accepted hebrew writings and didn't bother with the babylonian religious texts.

When we think of genesis we think about the epic of gilgamesh and pre cronicals before that era, we have lists of kings and gods that were said to be actually there in the flesh.

When we think of Satan, and mentions in the bible. It is blatenly obvious that satan is referenced as a babylionian god.
Now what were the Babylonians? What did they worship? The Annuaki- Or Anu-enki If that makes sense.

In the bible Satan is Enki, God is Anu- Its based off of one over arching epic narative, All of it is.
In that time there was so much corruption, Between our creators, and those posing as our creators.

This is why history is so hard to track, but once you realize its a game of telephone and people change things around to suit their beliefs. You can understand that these themes came from something else.

You want to know the under lining truth, Lions vs Reptiles/snakes

That's pretty much all the clues the bible tells you, And one important thing to remeber. Is that in these prophecys if they mention an animal, It is specifically mentioning an animal or an object not a nation.

In the bible They already have mentions for nations, There is names for every nation... So reference something more specific as an animal and disempower it by giving it the title of a clan or a group of people.
All the statues around the world should be a given hint, a huge one at that.

How many Lion statues are there guarding doorways? How many dragon statues exist? If there ever was a conflict between 2 species or 2 factions of powers that be, It would be that.


We all know who the Lions are, and who the dragons are. We don't need further explaination. God vs Satan.
You can chose to be a lizard if you want but i am not a lizard. lol. Both species have shapeshifting abilities, only One is greater than the other. One is immortal and one is not.
One is driven by the intentions of immortality * the stories are evident that either A. Immortality was lost i.e (fallen angels) or B. Were here to Obtain immortality*

Besides all the cult nonsense, there are real entities behind these myths.
And they are from other planets, some other galaxies. And not all of them are physical beings. Some are Merged body and spirit, so that they are the living dead born of the underworld. And the others are just an advanced species.... attempting to obtain the others powers.

We as humans are heirs to the throne, The stars will be our beconing place where we will spread seeds of creation throuout the cosmos. We are destined to be a colony for a race that cannot reproduce, because of thereby being merged with spirit and body cannot reproduce. And so a sub-speces has been created in this quadrant of the galaxy in order to progress in supplying reinforcements, as numbers can only repopulated from a biological source converted into a state of compressed energy and consiousness.

Other species are trying to hinder this process, as well as obtain our gifts and technology. I don't worship *Satan* But i am connected to what you would call Shadow aliens. And their numbers cover the planet. There is no alternative dimensions, there is only the Universe, and all its energy/matter that is in an eternal cycle of compression and decompression.

There is no other layers beyond that, That is it. Because no other layers are needed, For when matter is destroyed and compressed, it spreads out as the night sky. But when it ages it releases again- replacing the lost energy and matter.

Why dont you look into the religious beliefs of cultures far into our past. It could be mumbo jumbo but looking into cultures that began around the fertile cresent and their religious history and creation beliefs actually put many puzzle pieces together for me. Some stories explain how there were various Gods but even they had a leader. Over time a new leader was appointed who "demoted" the other Gods. No other God was more imporant than He. Sounds like Yahweh saying not to put other gods above himself.

I actually questions have too. Why did you start following Jesus as opposed to Allah? Why follow a lord that punished Adam, Eve and Lucifer all because Lucifer pushed them to aquire knowledge? Sort of seems like your lord would have rather kept mankind ignorant while he did as he pleased. Why would he say not to put any other gods above himself? isnt that admitting that there are others?

3shadesofblack
They quoted directly from scripture, where is your issue? Is it with the conclusions drawn from that scripture?

------------------
I have seen many times how this poster "quotes" from scripture.They are trolling.ANYONE can quote a scripture (in this case only post a scripture reference with no scripture).They are a cherry picker of scripture and as I said they "know" nothing of the scriptures.I gave them very good advice which I'm positive they won't listen to.
---------------

3shadesofblack
If so, how would you respond to my earlier post about the existence of both an omnipresent, omnipotent, and omnipresent God, who is omnibenevolent while also believing in the existence of evil. Seems mutually exclusive to me, and it is one of my main issues with Christianity as a whole. If you don't like arpgme response, then what is your response?

--------------------
You are correct.Those are incongruent statements.As a matter of fact I was responding to your post regarding free will.

The basic fact is the belief in a "Satan" being or entity is in complete contradiction to the scriptures.As I have stated and wrote MANY times at ATS nothing about the Lucifer/Satan myth is in the scripture.It is conjecture extrapolated by the same type of cherry picking the other poster did.

However what is true is, this "type" of religious extrapolation to form the doctrines of men is in relationship to "satan" which means adversary.It is the core seed of all "Belief Systems" that EVERYONE has.It is the adversary of the creator God...however it is not a "being" or entity as so many believe.

The seed of the adversary(Yahoshua called it the father of all lies) grows into the tree of "free will" which mankind is under the delusion they possess.That produces the "fruit" of all Belief Systems.The main doctrine of all Belief Systems is whatever I believe is true therefore I believe it.It is circular logic and is not common reason and that's the dilemma of the conundrum.

It is impossible to believe ANYTHING outside of your Belief System.It is a prison with invisible bars that ALL of mankindis held captive in.Atheism,Christianity, Satanism and everything in between are ALL just beliefs WITHIN a persons own Belief System.It is inescapable because none are trying to escape they are just building a bigger prison with stronger bars with doctrine upon doctrine belief upon belief never coming to to KNOW the truth simply because "faith" cannot KNOW the Truth.Belief in faith is NOT KNOWING.

The believers basis of their religion is faith in their doctrines of belief. That is the prison they are captive in.It has nothing to do with having an"open " mind.Open minds just let thoughts flow into them..and that is the crux of this satan the adversary.

Belief Systems are built brick by brick, bar by bar by thoughts that are cast into the mind.That is the basic definition of devil or demon which root word is diabolos which means to cast through a channel.The adversary(satan) of the creator God is thoughts's of belief of a Belief System cast "through" and into their mind and held captive by faith.That is the nature of man.

The creator God is not holding man responsible for this nature.They are the one that created it!However the "man" is accountable for what those thoughts held captive as beliefs are.In other words they will "reap" the consequence of those thoughts turned into actions. That is the way things"interact" in the physical universe because every effect has a cause.If you poke yourself in the eye it will cause damage to your eye.

The fact is there is no war going on between the creator God and a created being or entity called "Satan".The only war going on is the war between the ears of man as an adversary(satan) to the creator God.

In other words man is "fighting" against the creator God.It is written inn the Old Testimony there was a man named Jacob(meaning heel catcher or conniver) He "fought" against an angel (messenger) of the creator God.Whether that is metaphoric or real I do't know however afterward(when he lost) he was renamed Israel which means struggles with Yahweh(the creator God).He is the archetype "father" of all mankind that struggles "with the creator God as an adversary in their "mind".

Man has created a God in their own image and that God is..themselves.That is the core belief of Levey Satanism as I understand it and it is definetly also the core belief (even though they don't know it) of Christianity also.The only difference is it is called "My God"...My God is who you believe in...whether it is yourself as god or the false belief in a God you create in your own image it is still the same thing...an adversary....satan.Neither are the creator God

Although the picture I'm painting is not bright there is light in it.That light is called salvation in the scriptures.It means deliverance and it is received by and through forgiveness which DOES NOT mean pardoned of guilt...forgiveness in the scriptures means freedom from bondage.....the bondage of EVERYTHING....which is religion.

The first thing you will become free of is "your" religion.Your false Belief System" of what reality is.Until that Belief System(BS) is destroyed there is no freedom from bondage.(btw thatis the wide path that leads to the gate of destruction of Matt 7)Everything follows suit from there.

THAT is what the scriptures say.It is not a book of doctrines of religion to be "followed" to be good and receive salvation as the religious believe in their bondage of their Religion"s Belief System.

The scriptures have ONE purpose only.To testify as a testimony of the freedom from bondage...salvation.In the scriptures it is called Yahoshua which the man Yahoshua was named after.It means Yahweh (the creator God) IS salvation/deliverance.

That is a subject so deep it is unexplainable(even though Yahoshua did explain the basics).It can't be believed only known...and the only way it can be known is if the creator God the Father reveals it.In other words none can "know" God (the Truth) by their religion because their religion of belief is the anthesis of "knowing" the creator God.Which all leads back to the adversary...satan.

The good news is this is all being taken care of. Mankind's perception of their "world" is a cacophony of entropy is imbalanced.Man cannot see what is really going on now and would it matter if they did.It is a process mankind cannot know because mankind is in it and part of it and having it happened to them.In that case ignorance is bliss.

To answer your original hypothesis (since you asked me to expound I did ...and only a very little!! that'll teach ya!)Yes...The creator God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omnipresent and omnibenevolent. This is the creators creation and they are doing as they seem fit with no advice or input free will directives from mankind.

Man can speculate about the nature of everything but it comes down to is being an adversary..satan..having faith in and believing a Belief System that is false.That isn't a wise thing to do.Fortunately it doesn't effect the creator in the least.As the name Yahweh implies.The creator God "I will be what I will be" will be done.Not mans....Thank GOD!!

TKDRL
reply to post by Rex282

 

At least he/she sited some sources there. And you accuse them of not knowing how to form a proper argument lol. That's the pot calling the spoon black there

There is no point in arguing with some one that is not making any points.I know very well what a logical argument is and it is impossible to have one using the methods of that poster.

Im telling you, Its lizard shapeshifters vs beast shapeshifters lol.

Big cats are the kings of all beasts, Similarly bears and wolves hold their fair share of their power. These symbols will often be used.

Anyways, people literaly took time out of their day to hand carve stone blocks, some of which seemed to of been done with advanced technology.

Just as humans use a symbol of identification for us, such as a hand or a head or a skull other species would likely do the same.

In conjecture we should be focusing on things relating to the latest dates available, because it limits the ammount of assimiation that occures through time as cultures advance and trade.



Its no secret the tree and the snake have been regarded as pair and pair but literally this symbol reflects all over the world in continents said to not have any interaction between each other at all.

So explain how a tree ^ ( with feathers for leaves) with a big bull head on it and an all seeing eye at the bottom, was not meant to reflect the feathered serpent in all its glory? Well the fact that the statue is nearly in front of it should scream something.



It really is no mystery, Take this mural in Egypt for instance. It just seems everyone is crapping on snakes and trees eh.
And since when did snakes guard fruit trees?



Like come on, lol. And the bibles references to being formless and shapeless. Sounds a lot like a shapeshifter to you dosn't it? I mean if you are made of black matter and energy you are technically formless and shapeless until you take a shape that is


Isaiah 45
This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armour, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:
2
I will go before you and will level the mountains; [ Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint; the meaning of the word in the Masoretic Text is uncertain. ] I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.
3
I will give you the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name.
4
For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honour, though you do not acknowledge me.
5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
6
so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
8
You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the LORD, have created it.
9
Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, `What are you making?' Does your work say, `He has no hands'?
10
Woe to him who says to his father, `What have you begotten?' or to his mother, `What have you brought to birth?'
11
This is what the LORD says - the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12
It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshalled their starry hosts.
13
I will raise up Cyrus [ Hebrew: him ] in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.
14
This is what the LORD says: The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, [ That is, the upper Nile region ] and those tall Sabeans - they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains. They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, `Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.'
15
Truly you are a God who hides himself, O God and Saviour of Israel.
16
All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced; they will go off into disgrace together.
17
But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.
18
For this is what the LORD says - he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited - he says: I am the LORD, and there is no other.
19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, `Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
20
Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save.
21
Declare what is to be, present it - let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there is none but me.
22
Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
23
By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
24
They will say of me, `In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.' All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.
25
But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.

peter vlar

jessejamesxx
The majority of people you would call "Satanists" don't believe in an actual "Satan", and the ones that are theistic Satanists, are somehow tied in with the Christian church (Outcasts, rebelling teens etc) Because really, the only people that believe in "Satan" as you do, are Christians.

Finally! Someone gets it. LaVeyan Satanism is what we call the left hand path. Christianity is the right hand path and consequently theistic Satanists are also followers of the right hand path because their entire belief system is based on Christianity and their rebellion against the Christian god whereas the LaVeyan Satanist doesn't believe in any deities except the self as that's where our true power lies. In fact, any belief in a deity is grounds for no longer being a member of the COS and we consider devil worship/theistic satanism as nothing more than a perversion of Christianity.

In the words of Anton LaVey, High Priest of the church of satan-

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshiped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice

Unfortunately it isn't quite that black and white, as I'm sure you are aware. Your opinions are somewhat biased since by your own admission you are a laveyan satanist. It's not as easy as pigeonholing all theistic satanists into the role of misfit Christians or pigeonholing the identity of satan into that of a strictly Christian adversary. Satan existed in Judean theology long before Jesus Christ walked this earth, and I already posted links from theistic sites which claim to worship him in his pre-christian visage (they interpret his identity in various ways as Azazel or Samael, etc. and do not necessarily require the New Testament at all since they seek to venerate satan in all of his ancient forms, including that of "The Adversary").

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I could be wrong, but I don't think jews believe in satan as an evil entity, but a metaphor for the dark part of human human's hearts.

This site seems legit, but I am not positive wether or not it is the mainstream view when it comes to jews. Too bad I am not still in NY and able to speak with a jewish rabbi personally to find out.

TKDRL
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think jews believe in satan as an evil entity, but a metaphor for the dark part of human human's hearts.

Depends on who you ask. I can say this much with certainty: Jews did believe in demons, and by extension a demonic hierarchy similar to the angelic hierarchy, wholly apart from Christian theology. That much is reflected not only in the Torah and elsewhere, but also in Kabbalism, wherein they detail not only the Tree of Life and the Sephirot, but also the Qliphoth.

Jewish views on Satan himself are as varied as Christian views. From what I have read, most rabbi's consider Satan an angel (though what state he is in is widely debated) who works within the will of God by testing creation. That is a fairly similar view to what Christians believe (as they inherited that belief from their Jewish roots). Things get much more complicated when you look into the Kabbalah and the Qlippoth where there seems to be more opinion that Samael is the leader of the infernal forces. Satan and Samael can be interchangeable depending on who you ask.

At the end of the day, the theistic satanist doesn't seek to adhere strictly to a Christian or Jewish view of satan, but rather seeks to know that entity in all his forms and by all his names, the same as a Christian seeks the trinity and the various names of God (and His Messiah), or a Muslim learns all the names of Allah.

Interestingly, it's the most difficult of all religious outlooks to quantify. How do you get a real sense of truth when you are dealing with people who venerate the author of lies?