What if we have it wrong? Existence and all...

Hi All, just as i was about to fall asleep last night i thought to myself.

"What if we are looking at life and existence from the wrong angle?"

What if when we sleep we are actually going back to the place where we really exist? That is why we remember certain aspects in the form of a dream when we wake up from sleep.

And when we are awake in this current dimension we are asleep in the other place?

Has anyone else had these thoughts?

Can we be living in a dream now and we can actually change our own paths for the better?

I know i have asked a lot of questions but surely we can all sense that something is up?

reply to post by TKfourtwoone


I thought about the same thing. Maybe our dreams are our life as here we sleep, and our life is our dream as there we sleep.

Thus, we would never die...

reply to post by TKfourtwoone


it's a cool and interesting concept i reckon,
but it seems we'd have to call them "places" (plural) ?? as there isn't much continuity in our dreams, they chop and change a lot, etc

at some point (in all of this, wherever it is, hehe) i think we're looking for clarity and a kind of "foundation" to build something on (a better understanding of the universe and ourselves, if nothing else..)
i do think the potential for all that is right here in this life (this waking dream, w/e)

i think the dream-world is obviously part of what we are meant to be figuring out, thanks for posting (S&F)

TKfourtwoone
Hi All, just as i was about to fall asleep last night i thought to myself.

"What if we are looking at life and existence from the wrong angle?"

What if when we sleep we are actually going back to the place where we really exist? That is why we remember certain aspects in the form of a dream when we wake up from sleep.

And when we are awake in this current dimension we are asleep in the other place?

Has anyone else had these thoughts?

Can we be living in a dream now and we can actually change our own paths for the better?

I know i have asked a lot of questions but surely we can all sense that something is up?

I hold a similar view to an extent but with it comes the potential realization of avatars. What others have coined "meat sacs". One thing I find curious and I have said this a few times here, is when I watch my daughter fall asleep. There is a point that a shiver goes through her spine and I can feel her shake from it. If I try to get out of bed 10 seconds before she shakes I will get: "where you going daddy?", yet 10 seconds after her "shiver" I can do a double backflip of the side of her bed and she won't move a muscle.

She "logged out" of the program as it were. Its interesting to watch and surmise we all do that. If this was a game a hologram, the only way the experience could seem genuine is if we didn't know it wasn't real.

reply to post by TKfourtwoone


It would justify many concepts.


IE Our perception and belief in going somewhere when we die. The afterlife, spirits living on etc

So your catching on are you? Lying in bed wondering why some questions POP inside your head? Maybe even noticing during the day your the 3nd person watching yourself wondering Why did I just say that?

Has something come around in the past few months that Broke your understanding in all you thought was true? What if I told you everything Was A Lie? Every concept in your brain is either outdated or never was what you were led to believe.

Take your pick, God, Life and Love are just concepts feed to us as we grow up. Even down to Ape vs. Man. Next comes the various Levels we place things, say whats evil to me is really not that bad in your eyes. Even Love Itself is rated by Levels! Love for a mother, dad, sister or friend Should be the same as all yet it is not.

Even the idea that you have a soul is questionable! Wars throughout time started with the concept of Relig, although Power being #1 , followed by Money. Are you really alive or just dreaming about being alive?

Most thing today float upon stories told long ago, held as fact and sometimes a person Wakes Up. Now one could say the veil dropped, insight, tuning in. Or even what I've just said could be a load of crap LOL.

Yet somehow I've gone through; walking anyways! Knowing no matter How I try to shake it off, it's still there. Friends I have found play a interesting game, some can even suck your energy without you being aware. Change is what causes Fear!

We keep ideas, our life to run perfectly so nothing comes along and changes our world. Yet your world is small comparied to the Whole World. Come to think of it, There are 8 Bil worlds! Each with their understanding of what the World really is. Crazy is it not?

Some blend togetter while some fight another on a concept of what has been passed down as facts and how one should live their lifes following a Program for us all to follow. Gaps are showing up everyday, our ideas are placed in front of us to deal with. No more tossing them in a box and forgotten.

Everything is either so outdated or no longer applys anymore. People only keep what works, tossing out anything that might lead to change, then when Life happens to bring a wind and toss your whole gameplan down the tube. What happens?

They rush to Fix Everything back to the way it was! Never actually taking the time to sit down and see something New happening in their lives. It is called having a bad day, bad luck or your plan crashed so when you tell your friends about it, you will hear It Will Get Better! That is called, Sorry Dude really do not know what to say!

Sorry about the long reply. It really comes down to one simple thing, I really do not know and don't NEED TOO! Does God exist questions only deal with the fear of being sent to Hell. Sure you could look for info on the net, again 8 Bil different ideas.

Or you can walk away from all the Hogwash crap floating out there and find out for yourself what is real. Use your own head to find what your looking for, feel it and enjoy the experences that come your way. Existance is nothing more then an idea really.

I really do not know, for this is another one of them Questions that would make no difference anyway. Then in finding it, one would have to list ways for others so they can find it and so forth.

Why spend that amount of time on a question? Will it pay your bills, bring food to the table, and fix your Life? Finding God, LOL then what? Who would actually believe you anyways?

Crazy world we live in!

Peace

The nature of dreaming is such that until we awaken it is often an experience indistinguishable from what we consider woken life. Many philosophers have pondered over the potential ramifications of this fact. One of the best expressions of this line of thought was by Chinese philosopher Zhuanzi.

One night Zhuanzi dreamt he was a butterfly. When he woke the next morning the vivid experience lingered and Zhuanzi realized that it was impossible to determine whether Zhuanzi had just dreamt he was a butterfly or if he was a butterfly that had just begun to dream that it was Zhuanzi.

The Dream Argument

Josephus

One night Zhuanzi dreamt he was a butterfly. When he woke the next morning the vivid experience lingered and Zhuanzi realized that it was impossible to determine whether Zhuanzi had just dreamt he was a butterfly or if he was a butterfly that had just begun to dream that it was Zhuanzi.

Maybe it's just me, maybe not but as I've aged over the years, more and more I find myself wondering just the same. Only difference, I always wonder if I'm both. Sometimes when I'm engaged in a conversation I'll start referencing an experience as an example and than I realize it wasn't so much as an experience but a dream. Then I think, well what's the difference?

Maybe I'm just going crazy, maybe the two just normally bleed together like our thoughts from life bleed into the "dream". Either way, as far as I'm concerned, there's a whole lot more to dreams than just active imaginations.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


i like the cut of your jib (especially that first post, about "logging out")
spot on
as for that 'shiver' on the way out, ever felt the bed rattle (or what seems like it) when it's coming back in?

about what you typed just back there..
i think of it like this..
when it comes to 'you' (me, whatever)
first, there's the one that just WANTS stuff
then, there's the one that keep the first one in check
then, there seems to the 'real' you
(i think freud got there first? id, ego, superego kinda thing)

i think of (envision them like) a series of targeting reticules, like a fighter-pilot might have in the nav-display..
..when they are all lined up correctly, the magic happens

there's a whole lot more to dreams than just active imaginations

ever heard the story about the supposed discovery of the benzene molecule? (or whatever)

What if I told you everything Was A Lie?

i'd immediately offer that up to a little seedling; "hey seed, you're not real, that's not even dirt you're growing in" (a la morpheus in the matrix "you think that's air you're breathing now?")
the seed would no doubt retort back something like "those who claim the thing cannot be done are most often interrupting the one who is actually doing it"

we're told to seek the truth, and the truth will set us free..
..this would seem to impy that "truth" is actually out there somewhere to be found
if there isn't.. i may as well pack it all in right now

reply to post by TKfourtwoone

I'd be indulging if I started berating you or criticizing you. It's just too easy to declare dreams are not real. It's like taking shots at a deaf/blind duck in the water. I could say they're just a leftover from past evolutionary times when threats were so much higher and dreams so much more valuable.

BUT I know how it's to ask questions. There're so many possibilities to explain existence. You have to understand where I come from. I'm in my 30's and I've been asking similar questions for a long time. I'm at a stage where I'm tired of asking them and want to live now. I want something solid and tangible. Still, I have no belief in a God or supernatural. Sometimes I get sad to think we're just some atoms and interacting forces. Is that all we're then? When we die, our atoms and forces rejoin the others. Our intelligence dissipates when we die, like a battery becomes exhausted. On the other hand, intelligence is probably a common dynamic all across the universe, so there's nothing really special about it. Creatures like us have probably existed before and will probably exist again.

It'd be great if one day I can get some kind of answer. Like how common is intelligent life? How common are creatures like us? Will we be remembered somehow? Are we little more than dust in the wind? Is death and disease and disaster common in the universe? Is there a galactic or multi-galactic government?

I've found that just being out in the world is a lot of satisfaction. If you live too little and ask too many questions, it can make you feel insubstantial. It's like living in the mind too much disconnects you, and you become confused and anxious. The best way to understand "insubstantial" is this scene in Altered States:
(I know it's just a movie and I know it's not original, and I don't even know if it explains anything. Something about it makes me remember it. Something about him telling her she and the kids saved him. It makes me think of this world and all of the opportunity. I don't think it's so much love alone as it's being alive.)

reply to post by UNIT76


Don't pack your bags, just yet! Open the one you have packed for such a long time you'll find all the things that have gone missing!

Fact is, we lie even to ourselves! They say that your eyes actually lie to you, most of the time were just not paying attention, running on auto pliot really. Mind uses what it saw and put things in vaious groups that is needed and forgets the rest.

Except your Dreams bring info to you at night while your mind is sleeping. Strange since what you do dream and live are the same world really. Thats why dream books are crap! Better to make your own then read one.

Take for instance A Bird. Or you are the bird flying. Depending on what a bird is to you; some claim it being a message coming your way. In my frame of mind a bird does 2 things I can not, fly nor sing. So seeing a bird in a dream would just be a bird doing what a bird does.
So writing down what happens while dreaming can fine tune whats really going on in your life. And some dreams will wake you to the core while others do bring joy.

Some relate to what you might have watched on TV that night, or later on a few days later someone says something that brings up that dream you had the other night. Thats where all the confusion comes into play.

Your mind can not understand the lang so blows it off. The same blow off when you first experenced it. Mind does 2 things, tears it down or conciders it just a dream and lets it go. That is one of Mans problems, having to understand it all. There is no way you could understand all of it anyways.

Best one could do is give it their best, see what you are hiding from yourself and accept it. I call it the War with Ego. Basicly we are at war with ourselves, more like learning to accept all the parts of ourselves we label as bad. I say, Explore your dark side too!

And who wants to go through all that crap? Its painful, anger, lust, envy, hate etc. Yet it is a part of you you left behind trying to catch up to you while dreaming to show you the truth about your life.

Sometimes it Sucks to hear the truth yet somehow you actually feel better because you allowed it to move through you and not shove it away. Exploring you other side means nothing more then knowing what is right from wrong and making the changes Before you go into auto pliot and end up doing something stupid.

Next is the Other Worldly dreams that bring the WTF? Have them sometimes, a different place, time or on some other planet. Even fought the good fight and lost some, seen the Gates of Hell and even met good old satan Himself. Have flown, swam and followed many stars!

Daydreaming! Becoming the Super Hero, or just knocking the # smile off the person that needs it! Robbing, stealing and having slaves too lol we all do this! Problem is, people have surpress themselves so much, even thinking what I just said would be a crime, evil thoughts and most would say I'm going to Hell! Beat you all too it first, my friends!

Dreams are what they are, Special! That is the one Door that speaks Truth, will never leave you; and guessing here, will follow you Forever past Death Himself!

Peace

TKfourtwoone
Hi All, just as i was about to fall asleep last night i thought to myself.

"What if we are looking at life and existence from the wrong angle?"

What if when we sleep we are actually going back to the place where we really exist? That is why we remember certain aspects in the form of a dream when we wake up from sleep.

And when we are awake in this current dimension we are asleep in the other place?

Has anyone else had these thoughts?

Can we be living in a dream now and we can actually change our own paths for the better?

I know i have asked a lot of questions but surely we can all sense that something is up?

The ancient pre socratic greek philosopher heraclitus expressed this exact sentiment 2500 years ago.

reply to post by TKfourtwoone


Very cool theory. For the past year I have felt like my dreams are more than just figments of my imagination. I have had dreams recently where I wakeup feeling tired from. This morning I watched "nightmare on elm street 3 dream warriors" and get this lawrence fishburn aka morpheous is in it. Ironic to say the least.

We have great ideas but no real answers to the bigger questions - it's been that way for a while.

IMO material science is in a way a hole that will go on forever - find out one thing and you've got ten new unknowns - that kind of thing. Spirituality is the same way IMO. (And in no way there am I saying that both of those things are not important - they indeed are).

I do believe in some form of eschaton or singularity (of humanity and technology) - but I think we are a long way away from that when we like to create more problems than solutions to things.

Heck... in the vein of Buckminster Fuller - Humans are still not aware of their universal function (or even if we have one lol).


In short - I think we usually do have everything wrong - or in the least very skewed and obscured.

"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake."

Henry David Thoreau