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A Second Sphinx?

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posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 06:14 AM
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Do you see a second one or any remains at the site? No. Did any of the archaeologists discover an writings about a second sphinx? No. Remember a lot of people study this place every day. The probability that someone sitting at a PC in another country may spot something they (who have spent years learning their profession, it's not flipping burgers and mowing lawns on the weekend) miss is really a clue to how ego oriented we have become. If you were a construction worker, how would you like it if people on the internet with no experience were telling you what you messed up. Not cool




posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 06:36 PM
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Marduk, I'm curious as to why you would tell someone NOT to read Bauval's work? I will grant you that none of his theories have really been proven, but you have to admit that they are interesting, and make sense. What I found extremely interesting in particular is how he used computers to "turn back time" so to speak to the Era where Leo is on the horizon (forgive me for my lack of specifics, I haven't read his book in a few years). Basically the pyramids and the nile mirror Orions belt and the milky way precisely, and the sphinx directly faces Leo on the horizon. If I remember correctly, this precise alignment happens around 10,500 BC. This seems like WAY more than just coincidence to me, especially since it is now believed that the sphinx is older than originally thought due to the water erosion on the sphinx's back.

So here's a question: Could the constelation Leo be considered the 2nd Sphinx?

It also seems to make sense that the head was originally the head of a lion, since the head had no water erosion (that I've seen/read about), and the human head is so much smaller than the feline body. Which, to me, lends more credence that the sphynx had some connection with the constellation Leo.

One thing I am unsure of, however, is when was the Constellation Leo named. Who decided it resembled a Lion, and why? That is probably the one thing that would blow this theory out of the water, because what if whoever built the sphinx thought the constellation Leo looked more like a dragon, or some other animal or form?

At any rate, it's at least worth some thought and further investigation (which I'm sure Bauval is still working on...)



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by Jaruseleh
Marduk, I'm curious as to why you would tell someone NOT to read Bauval's work? I will grant you that none of his theories have really been proven, but you have to admit that they are interesting, and make sense.


But only if you don't study the writings of the people of ancient Egypt. And only if you don't study the archaeology of the place and the timelines of the place.


Basically the pyramids and the nile mirror Orions belt and the milky way precisely, and the sphinx directly faces Leo on the horizon.


Only if you turn Egypt upside down, or turn Orion upside down in the night sky. And, since the Sphynx is oriented toward the rising sun, it faces EVERY equitorial constellation as well as the rising sun. I'm not sure how he counts "Leo rising" -- whether he mans it's hidden behind the sun or that it's the first bright evening constellation to appear in the east after the sky darkens or what. But the ancient Egyptians weren't very good astronomers and their maps of the sky is pretty indifferent.

Anyway, at different times of the year, the sun rises with the constellation Leo. It occurs for a month every year... and has done so since the beginning of time.


If I remember correctly, this precise alignment happens around 10,500 BC. This seems like WAY more than just coincidence to me, especially since it is now believed that the sphinx is older than originally thought due to the water erosion on the sphinx's back.

It isn't, and the one who originally came up with the theory has kind of backed off of it.


It also seems to make sense that the head was originally the head of a lion, since the head had no water erosion (that I've seen/read about), and the human head is so much smaller than the feline body. Which, to me, lends more credence that the sphynx had some connection with the constellation Leo.

The head and the body are of different layers of limestone with different properties (one layer is harder than the other.) One is more difficult to carve, and one erodes rather easily. The head was originally that of the pharoah (and there are countless examples of these kinds of sphynxes... a whole avenue of 40 or more, in fact, right there at Giza.)


One thing I am unsure of, however, is when was the Constellation Leo named. Who decided it resembled a Lion, and why?


Greeks.

Greeks, again. And who knows why.

The ancient Egyptians got their astronomy from the Greeks, long after the Great Pyramid was built (between 1070 and 550 BC:
www.ancient-egypt.org...

Leo, as a constellation, was not one of the important ones:
www.egyptologyonline.com...



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:49 AM
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I hate to continually be the one to raise controversial questions, but I got one. Isn't it just possible that there was a group of people around before the Egyptians that built the Pyramids and the Sphinx at Giza? I know that many, including our subject matter expert Byrd will say that this cannot be so, but I submit it for the behest of all.

What I'm suggesting is that there was a prior, as yet unknown civilization around that built them, and then the Egyptians came along and just overwrote any records that they found. They also would have destroyed any artifacts that they couldn't assimilate into their own society, to prevent anyone from asking questions. Is this a stretch of the imagination? Yes. However, it is known that the Egyptians were in fact very prolific at erasing history. To support this, I submit the death of King Tut, and his summary expulsion from Egyptian history. The same goes for Cleopatra.

I know that everyone probably thinks this is a bunch of hokey nonsense, but I thought I'd post it as a suggestion anyway. Let me know what you all think.

TheBorg

[Edited for grammar.]

[edit on 15-8-2007 by TheBorg]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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Byrd, I'm just curious if you've read "The Message of the Sphinx" By Robert Bauval. You may be correct in what you've said, evidently you have a lot more knowledge/experience than I do with Egyptology, however, one thing I have noticed within the "realm" of Egyptologists is that those who are "experts" seem extremely close minded...I suppose it's human nature when you put so much time and effort into what you've learned to assume it's correct. It seems like very few are willing to think outside the box. For example, I'm agnostic, but I have often times picked up the bible just to learn more about what I'm "against" so-to-speak. Even if Bauval is completely wrong, the ideas he proposes are very interesting, and seem to make sense with the religious beliefs of the Egyptians (among other things), not just their ability to build insanely difficult monuments.


At any rate, I'm all for learning more about Egyptology...I love this stuff, and someday I'd love to visit Giza to see this stuff first hand. No matter who built the stuff, or how it was built, or what it was built for, they must be simply amazing to behold.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
Only if you turn Egypt upside down, or turn Orion upside down in the night sky. And, since the Sphynx is oriented toward the rising sun, it faces EVERY equitorial constellation as well as the rising sun. I'm not sure how he counts "Leo rising" -- whether he mans it's hidden behind the sun or that it's the first bright evening constellation to appear in the east after the sky darkens or what. But the ancient Egyptians weren't very good astronomers and their maps of the sky is pretty indifferent.

Anyway, at different times of the year, the sun rises with the constellation Leo. It occurs for a month every year... and has done so since the beginning of time.


I just wanted to add a little to this...the theory is that at the time of 10,500 B.C. the constellation Leo is on the horizon (I believe on the spring Equinox) so the sun basically rises directly through it, and the Sphinx is directly facing it. At the same time, the nile river essentially "runs into" the milky way on the horizon so it appears the river flows into the sky, and the 3 stars of Orions belt are directly over the pyramids and line up precisely. I know you state that that's not true, but this is essentially how Bauval describes it.

I would love to see proof that this is false if you have it, but for now, it's a really interesting theory, and if true, it's WAY too coincidental to mean absolutely nothing.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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I remember reading from some translated ancient greek texts that there was indeed a 2nd sphinx that faced the existing one on the other side of the Nile. It's construction was not as sound (mud brick with casing stone) as the remaining one and the river has changed course over the millenia wiping out all traces of it. The inhabitants on the opposite shore had removed the casing limestone to build their dwellings leaving the vulnerable soft core structure exposed in the same way as the casing over the pyramids has been removed.

Proving it will be quite a task though with no evidence left or, if there is anything, it could be under the river now.

I'll try to search for a reference to this.
here

[edit on 15/8/2007 by Pilgrum]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by TheBorg
I hate to continually be the one to raise controversial questions, but I got one. Isn't it just possible that there was a group of people around before the Egyptians that built the Pyramids and the Sphinx at Giza?

Ancient people who showed up and built the pyramids and just for fun carved the workers' team names in Egyptian hieroglyphics (which wouldn't be developed for ...oh... 6,000 years after the proposed 10,000 BC date)? And carved Khufu's name (8,000 years before he was born) and their team names (in proper hieroglyphics) on two blocks high inside the pyramid in a rather inaccessible spot?
www7.nationalgeographic.com...

And similar hieroglyphics in the pyramid of Menukaure?

Who rose from the dust leaving no traces of earlier stages of their civilization but just "showed up" and built one monument (while having the foresight to carve the names of work teams from Khufu's temples and pyramids in the granite and limestone quarries where the stone originated?

How are you proposing that they determined the names 6,000 years before these people were born and knew how to write in a way (Egyptian hieroglypics went through a number of changes) that was correct for the time period of Khufu... but not for earlier times?

By the way, the Egyptians didn't "lose" the history of Cleopatra and of Tut. She was a Greek ruler who ruled Egypt... and was the 6th Cleopatra to do so, in fact. Rome took over Egypt and ruled instead of the pharoahs... which is why Cleo's history isn't recorded by Egypt (and was recorded instead by Rome), though there are artifacts and so forth from her era.

Tut wasn't "erased." There were stele and other markers around with his name. His body was hidden in the Valley of Kings to keep him safe from tomb robbers. His original burial chamber was changed, and what was "lost" (hidden) was the knowledge of wher he was buried... not his name or some of his deeds.
nefertiti.iwebland.com...



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Jaruseleh
I just wanted to add a little to this...the theory is that at the time of 10,500 B.C. the constellation Leo is on the horizon (I believe on the spring Equinox) so the sun basically rises directly through it, and the Sphinx is directly facing it. At the same time, the nile river essentially "runs into" the milky way on the horizon so it appears the river flows into the sky, and the 3 stars of Orions belt are directly over the pyramids and line up precisely. I know you state that that's not true, but this is essentially how Bauval describes it.


But the Nile river runs north and south.

It hasn't ever run east and west (which is what is needed for it to "run into the Milky Way on the horizon.")

Here's what the sky looked like at that time (at the vernal equinox):
www.bruneiastronomy.org...

Cancer's on the horizon, and Orion isn't overhead but a little to the East. The Milky Way isn't running north and south.

And if you look at the map the pyramids go like this:

Pyramids:
content.answers.com...(map).svg.png

And if you look at the constellations, you will see that Orion goes like this:
Orion:
joemorris.mystarband.net...

No match.

And the word, "mr" and symbol for pyramid didn't enter the Egyptian language and script until the building of the first true pyramids (among them, the Bent Pyramid and Red Pyramid and Black Pyramid), in the reign of Sneferu - 2600 BC.

Now, Giza had been a town for longer than that and the pyramids are a lovely sight at sunset. Are you accounting for the Egyptians not writing the symbol or inventing the term for 8,000 years by having a Cosmic David Copperfield hanging around on the Giza plateau casting an illusion of "no see um" on the pyramids until Khufu shows up and makes him quit?


I would love to see proof that this is false if you have it, but for now, it's a really interesting theory, and if true, it's WAY too coincidental to mean absolutely nothing.


That just means he spent a lot of time tinkering with it to make it work. I could come up with a theory that my Siamese cat actually inspired the sphynx and give the proportions and enough data to make the case that the sphynx was recarved from a state of a Siamese cat and siamese cats were sacred in Thailand/Siam, and the Egyptians worshipped cats. This doesn't make my theory right, however.

[edit on 15-8-2007 by Byrd]

[edit on 15-8-2007 by Byrd]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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I have never seen carvings in the great pyramid.
I have seen the painted hieroglyphs.

Isnt it possible that Colonel Howard-Vyse forged the Hieroglyphs for personal reason's?



[edit on 15-8-2007 by earth2]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:02 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
Ancient people who showed up and built the pyramids and just for fun carved the workers' team names in Egyptian hieroglyphics (which wouldn't be developed for ...oh... 6,000 years after the proposed 10,000 BC date)?


Ok Byrd, I want to make sure that we get the question that I posed straight, and in the proper context here. It's obvious, from your response anyway, that you've completely missed the question. I'll restate my full question a bit more clearly so that you can reassess what it is that I was asking.

What I was asking was if it was possible if a completely unknown civilization ruled in that area prior to the Egyptians. I was also asking if it was possible that these same people built the structures that we're discussing at this moment.

I then brought in the Egyptians because I'm curious if they came in and saw these huge structures, and figured that since they held the ground at the moment, that they could claim them for themselves. I suggested that they then went about rewriting the history of the pyramid's creations, so that they could give themselves all of the credit. This would explain all of the hieroglyphics (Egyptian Graffiti perhaps?)



And carved Khufu's name (8,000 years before he was born) and their team names (in proper hieroglyphics) on two blocks high inside the pyramid in a rather inaccessible spot?
www7.nationalgeographic.com...

And similar hieroglyphics in the pyramid of Menukaure?


Again, see my statements above.



Who rose from the dust leaving no traces of earlier stages of their civilization but just "showed up" and built one monument (while having the foresight to carve the names of work teams from Khufu's temples and pyramids in the granite and limestone quarries where the stone originated?


Again, all easily explained if those spots were as accessible as they are now. It's easy to revise history Byrd, you of all people should know this. Why then is it such a hard leap to accept the mere possibility that something like this could be possible? There's no records showing any known method that could efficiently do what has been done.



How are you proposing that they determined the names 6,000 years before these people were born and knew how to write in a way (Egyptian hieroglypics went through a number of changes) that was correct for the time period of Khufu... but not for earlier times?


I'm not. I'm suggesting that the Egyptians came along and added those in to make it appear as though they built them. The perfect alibi, right? Make it look as though they built it, when in fact they didn't.



By the way, the Egyptians didn't "lose" the history of Cleopatra and of Tut. She was a Greek ruler who ruled Egypt... and was the 6th Cleopatra to do so, in fact. Rome took over Egypt and ruled instead of the pharoahs... which is why Cleo's history isn't recorded by Egypt (and was recorded instead by Rome), though there are artifacts and so forth from her era.

Tut wasn't "erased." There were stele and other markers around with his name. His body was hidden in the Valley of Kings to keep him safe from tomb robbers. His original burial chamber was changed, and what was "lost" (hidden) was the knowledge of wher he was buried... not his name or some of his deeds.
nefertiti.iwebland.com...


Actually, she was the 7th, and last Pharaoh to do so.

As for King Tut, he was erased by subsequent rulers. According to PBS:

If royal resting places are happened upon, they very well may not be intact. Ninety-nine percent of tombs in the Valley had been robbed, most in antiquity, by the time they were brought to light. Even Tut's had intruders, though they apparently made off with little, and the four-room chamber was resealed and remained untouched for 3,000 years until Carter entered it in the 1920s. One reason that Tut's was virtually pristine was that subsequent rulers erased him from Egyptian history, along with his father and the rest of the rulers of the so-called Amarna Period that Akhenaten established; later plunderers may not have known to look for his tomb.


So, if we're to assume that the Egyptians are incapable of revising history, how could we explain this little phenomenon that we seem to have stumbled upon? To me, this has all the earmarks of a group of people finding these huge structures, and claiming them for themselves.

Call me whatever you like, but that's the way I see it. Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I'm not. There's just no evidence to prove that they built them is all that I'm trying to get across, while at the same time suggesting an alternative possibility. Take it for what it's worth.

Please, don't take what I've said as a personal attack. That's not what I'm intending to do. I'm not trying to attack your credibility or education. If that's the way that you take it though, then there's nothing I can do about that. It is what it is... a mystery of the ancient world. One that particularly fascinates me...

TheBorg



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 11:16 PM
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Byrd is doing a fine job on this one but I will add

There is no evidence of said other culture. It would have been quite large to have built so many pyramids, it is odd that it left no trace, no pottery no habitation levels, no trash at all.

Not to forget the two radio-carbon dating expeditions in the 90's which showed that the Gypsum 'mortar' used in the Pyramids was made during the time of the assigned building of the pyramids (by the people of Egypt).

If the Pyramids were built earlier this means the Egyptians stripped off the outer layers and put their gypsum mortars thru out (well everywhere anyone has looked) the core structure - then put the outer layers back on. plus opening up the interior and puting in graffiti in places modern people had to dynamite there way into....



posted on Dec, 5 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Seekerof
 
There is artifact evidence that is being suppressed that shows evidence of a second Sphinx. You can see these artifacts on the Advanced civilization page at www,pangeawv.com These artifacts were created by a true ancient advanced civilization with many artifacts to prove it.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Byrd, I think what they mean is that Tutankhamen is missing from the 'King's List' at Abydos. If my memory serves me doesn't it skip right to Ay or Horemheb? I agree with you on everything. I am a grounded Egyptology student along the lines of your thoughts.

Also, a subject I keep seeing repeated here is that the Sphinx must be old because of water erosion. Byrd, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the modern Egyptologists view on this that water damage is much more likely due to the rising water table of the Nile? The 'secret' chambers (chambers beneath the Sphinx) that everyone refers to here are in fact flooded. I am not a geologist however I am a scientist, in physics to be precise, and water damage to the Sphinx from the Nile water table is much more sensical than the Sphinx being 10's of thousands of years old. This is an example of Occam's razor.

I am by no means an expert on Egypt however I have read quite a few books on Ancient Egypt including some of Maspero's original works. I also took a class on hieroglyphs. In my reading and studying I have never heard mention of a second Sphinx similar to the one at Giza.

I will ask my 'glyph professor about a possible second Sphinx. She has a PhD in Egyptology and I trust her word.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Misfire post.....sorry all.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by GTORick]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Mention is made of the 'evidence' at

the stuff

Odd.......but I do like his use of ALL CAPS! Approach this 'evidence' with a great deal of skepticism.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Seekerof
 
There is artifact evidence that is being suppressed that shows evidence of a second Sphinx. You can see these artifacts on the Advanced civilization page at www,pangeawv.com These artifacts were created by a true ancient advanced civilization with many artifacts to prove it.



Holy Slag & Geofacts Batman!

I'll give this to the site owner, he has an active imagination. I see no discernible pattern in the slag or rocks.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Holy Slag & Geofacts Batman!

I'll give this to the site owner, he has an active imagination. I see no discernible pattern in the slag or rocks.

Well it would seem you have a closed mind, but in this case you have not only redeemed yourself with being completely right but have also made a good batman comment. lol



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