Lets discuss Tarot..

NorEaster It's not magic or mysticism. It's analysis and communication.

Here's the question though. If you do actual readings, as in draw cards in a spread, do you believe the cards are random, or somehow come up in a way that is actually meant as an answer for your question. That's what it comes down to, isn't it? I understand studying the symbolism of tarot, and trying to gain meaning out of it through analysis and meditation. But when it comes down to doing 'readings,' it's either guided or random. If it's random, how can you possibly use that as any kind of basis for a real decision? I can understand using it in a way to spur your mind into new interpretations of things, but as far as actually using it for guidance in life...you have to believe it's guided, or else it's just sparking creativity in your mind while making sense of the cards as it applies to some situation. Not saying there is no value in that, just that you can't really use it as a basis for real decisions if that's the case.

TheJourney

NorEaster It's not magic or mysticism. It's analysis and communication.

Here's the question though. If you do actual readings, as in draw cards in a spread, do you believe the cards are random, or somehow come up in a way that is actually meant as an answer for your question. That's what it comes down to, isn't it? I understand studying the symbolism of tarot, and trying to gain meaning out of it through analysis and meditation. But when it comes down to doing 'readings,' it's either guided or random. If it's random, how can you possibly use that as any kind of basis for a real decision? I can understand using it in a way to spur your mind into new interpretations of things, but as far as actually using it for guidance in life...you have to believe it's guided, or else it's just sparking creativity in your mind while making sense of the cards as it applies to some situation. Not saying there is no value in that, just that you can't really use it as a basis for real decisions if that's the case.

It's not random. In the same way that a savant can tell exactly how many needles have fallen out of a small box onto the floor with one quick look, the experienced reader is able to shuffle the cards to bring a reasonable grouping to the proper position (a tarot reader always shuffles the deck in the same manner, as a "ritual") so that the layout will address the question. Not everyone can be a card reader, and not every reading will be coherent, since we're dealing with reality here. That said, a talented reader who has been seriously working in the craft (it's a craft, not a science) for many years, can achieve a very good "hit rate" as far as card "turn up" is concerned. What's also true is that a good reader will know immediately whether the spread is a dud or can be interpreted. After many years of reading, it becomes really obvious immediately.

It's "guided" by the reader's subconscious mind, as he/she "communicates" with the seeker's own subconscious mind, and translates what the seeker (who already knows the truth concerning the situation at a subconscious level) reveals. It's like hypnotherapy, I guess, (as far as gaining access to "hidden" knowledge within the seeker's memory) only the seeker doesn't realize that he/she is in communication with the reader. After all, cognition is delayed for the conscious mind (anywhere from a half second to a full seven seconds) as a lot is factored out and triaged by the brain-mind survival system that we each possess and depend on. It would actually take me quite a lot of work to fully detail how it all works (that survival system), but the short answer is that tarot is a tool that works well with that natural mind-brain survival system. Humans have been employing a variety of versions of that same tool for much longer than the tarot has been around. Tarot cards are just a really efficient version of a very traditional cognitive work-around that people have been using for millennia.

reply to post by NorEaster


Yes, I agree entirely with your assessment of reading spreads, that tarot card reading it is a craft and not a ouija-like state calling forth spirits (opening portals), nor channelling which calls forth the higher force.

NorEaster
It's not random. In the same way that a savant can tell exactly how many needles have fallen out of a small box onto the floor with one quick look, the experienced reader is able to shuffle the cards to bring a reasonable grouping to the proper position (a tarot reader always shuffles the deck in the same manner, as a "ritual") so that the layout will address the question.

I'm ok with rationalization to explain 'spiritual' impulses. However, it seems to me that's what it is. Something like quickly knowing the number of needles falls out of a box is different. The second you see it, your brain has seen it, and your brain has capabilities FAR beyond that of our conscious mind. So it can, using its own mathematical and logical principles, analyze based on that 'picture' and almost instantly determine the amount of needles. You can see how that's possible, just with the expanded powers of our brains. However, shuffling/dealing cards is not the same. Even if you could somehow shuffle in EXACTLY the same way, where the cards interchanged and ordered up in exactly the same way every time relative to the original position, you would still have to have at least seen the original position of all the cards in order for even your brain in its total capacity to be able to 'pick' the right cards. Beyond that, shuffling the EXACT same way, with the exact same permutations from the original positions, is basically impossible. Combining those two aspects, there's really no way your brain, even with its total capacity, would be able to 'know' the right cards.

onequestion
1) Does Tarot have a tendency to manifest negative ethereal ramifications?

2) Oh, what happens if you throw them away?

3) Anything else to add?

1) Depends what you mean by negative ramifications. Getting information from demons who could do nasty things to you or your loved ones is the risk you take.

2) Throwing them away won't do anything. The demon is with you now. Try stopping to do anything involving pagan majik and see what happens. Things might turn ugly very fast.

3) All information is communicated via demons or nephil spirits.
Speaking from experience, last year a ATS guy offered me a Tarot card read and as i know links are automatically setup between both mortals' demons, i wanted to see if the tarot cards are true.

This happened in real time on a chat line. So there we were, my fallen guardian angel was 'advising' his negative entity to get his body to pick up certain cards that related 100% to my life. Hence awake 'channeling'.

TheJourney

NorEaster
It's not random. In the same way that a savant can tell exactly how many needles have fallen out of a small box onto the floor with one quick look, the experienced reader is able to shuffle the cards to bring a reasonable grouping to the proper position (a tarot reader always shuffles the deck in the same manner, as a "ritual") so that the layout will address the question.

I'm ok with rationalization to explain 'spiritual' impulses. However, it seems to me that's what it is. Something like quickly knowing the number of needles falls out of a box is different. The second you see it, your brain has seen it, and your brain has capabilities FAR beyond that of our conscious mind. So it can, using its own mathematical and logical principles, analyze based on that 'picture' and almost instantly determine the amount of needles. You can see how that's possible, just with the expanded powers of our brains. However, shuffling/dealing cards is not the same. Even if you could somehow shuffle in EXACTLY the same way, where the cards interchanged and ordered up in exactly the same way every time relative to the original position, you would still have to have at least seen the original position of all the cards in order for even your brain in its total capacity to be able to 'pick' the right cards. Beyond that, shuffling the EXACT same way, with the exact same permutations from the original positions, is basically impossible. Combining those two aspects, there's really no way your brain, even with its total capacity, would be able to 'know' the right cards.

edit on 2-4-2014 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

At the level where a savant's brain can determine the correct amount of needles in the pile, what's being accurately observed is being observed in a very different manner than simply seeing the needles and registering the amount in a linear manner by the savant's unique brain (as is the case with a normal brain). Yes, it involves seeing the needles, but there's no definitive answer to how it is that the savant brain is capable of processing the snapshot information itself. The savant brain can also be capable of "counting cards" that the savant hasn't been allowed to see within a deck at a casino. The brain of such a person is somehow capable of determining the positions of each card, relative to the entire deck's contents as a whole, to the degree that the savant can easily predict his/her opponents' hands with little or no information to work with.

The tarot reader's connection with his/her deck is much more intimate - on a daily basis - than a savant's connection with a fresh deck in the hands of a professional dealer at a poker table. Besides, there are basic arrangements that the cards can take that will deliver somewhat similar "verdicts", since spreads are designed to produce a narrative indication as several cards work in congress to clarify the message as a group. It's not as if one and only one card must work its way to the top of the deck for a reading to be successfully accurate.

You don't have to accept any of this. The truth is that most readers aren't very good at reading, so in the aggregate, you're probably right to be skeptical. Still, the science behind it all is - while certainly not hard, as in applied physics - is solid, in the sense of being as solid as any of the more complicated sciences, like psychology, sociology, and behavior. There are established fundamentals that apply to how accurate tarot readers do what they do. If the human brain-mind survival system was a blunt as hard science insists that it is, the human race would've never made it out of the caves.

reply to post by TheJourney


Good point.

What i understand from your post is this...

Do we pick the cards or do the cards pick themselves?

I get what your saying my question above may not be exactly it.