15 years since NATO aggression on Yugoslavia

DJW001
A quick survey of their archives shows them aligned with the far right. It is literally a Fascist organization. I invite everyone to evaluate it on their own.

Yes, a quick look at their archive has left me feeling ill.

reply to post by cosmonova


to understand the bombing campaign, you need to understand the serbs planed and repeated genocidal actions through all of the wars and the response the UN , NATO took. then NATO on their own accord to stop it from happening again. the quotes that i posted were to lay back ground for the actions of NATO.

don't say they weren't doing that, i would ask you to explain why slobydon had what he called bodies that would be of interest, brought to serbia to be buried. or do you deny that this happened? also why was he trying to hide them in his country if the killing were done during what was combat action and not massacres? the genocides was something he had ordered in the other wars no matter what some have said to be untrue. and he continued that policy in kosovo.

yes, parties on all sides had the innocent blood on their hands.muslims serbs, croatians and albanians. but if you look at the bodies count of the lists of massacres from all sides the serbs had the highest numbers killing of old men, young boys, women, and very young children, the execution of unarmed POWs after torture the serbs took to with a zeal. and i haven't even mentioned the rape em out of existence policies.

if you want i can go and pull up lists of massacres and executions form all sides and you can count and compare the numbers yourself.
oh that's right just like taliban supporters, it's all lies, if it doesn't fit your narrative.

the only reason that it didn't happen in slovenia, is that war didn't last but about 10days, no doubt in my mind had it been any longer there would have been the same type of massacres happening then.

although never stated as a policy, it's pretty clear that the serbs that were in power, wanted complete control over the entire area that was once Yugoslavia, and wanted to be only ethnic group left.

don't you think it strange that, out of all those wars and people. serbs are the only ones whining and crying, saying that they were the ones that genocide was aimed at, and trying to rewrite history. and it was just a move to set up U.S. bases in the area, no matter what documented evidence says. but that's right if it doesn't match your views it's all lies.

NATO TOOK ACTION TO STOP A MURDEROUS GOVERNMENT AND IT'S SUPPORTERS, NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO SPIN IT.
there was no dog wagging going on. i hated bill clinton with a passion, but he and other leaders of NATO countries made the right call.

And now lets see what is left behind NATO atrocities and what was hidden for years from public

'Kante’s report further says that because of the bombing, the nature in Yugoslavia has been contaminated with toxic substances among which the most dangerous is polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB), highly cancerogenous and responsible for immunological diseases. The report stresses that one liter of PCB is enough to contaminate one billion gallons of water.

PCB is located in the electrical substations and numerous oil refineries which were the target of NATO. It is added that the bombing of numerous factories which processed heavy metals caused, among other things, spreading of cadmium and methylmercury (the most poisonous form of mercury). These are metals that are poisonous even if they are spread on an area of several thousand kilometers. The result – the Danube was poisoned.'

NATO knew about these factories and what they produce, but that was not the reason to stop them from horrific bombing
regardless of results.
The most ironic thing is that Kosovo and Albanians are paying the highest price these days for NATO involvement

'9.45 tons of nuclear waste dumped on Kosovo:
Parsons said that already in February 2000 the data of the Dutch government in outlines coincide with the data of the U.S. non-governmental organization MTP (Military Toxic Project). In January 2000 MTP asked the U.S. government to lift the confidentiality tag from the files on the use of DU in Kosovo. MTP received the file on January 30 2000 and based on it, the NGO calculated that 9.45 tons of nuclear waste was dumped on Kosovo.

White House knew that the bombs contained DU:
It was only after a great public pressure that the Americans acknowledged that the ammunition was stuffed with “dirty” uranium, the most dangerous to humans and the environment.

The Balkan working group within UNEP was the one to alarm the world public on February 16 2001 by announcing that “dirty” uranium was dumped on Kosovo.

It was announced than that the analysis of 340 samples of soil, water, etc. had shown the presence of transuranium elements such as U-236 and traces of plutonium and fission processes. The presence of plutonium was confirmed by two laboratories – the Swedish Institute for Radiological Protection and the Swiss laboratory AC-Speiz.'


This is the link to the rest of article
inserbia.info...


And now does anybody have any doubt how much NATO cares about Albanians and Kosovo?

DJW001
Given that the clear intent of this thread is to portray NATO as cold blooded aggressive murderers, I would like to ask the anti-NATO crowd how they think NATO will eventually deal with the situation in Crimea. Do you agree with Angela Merkel's evaluation that Vladimir Putin has lost touch with reality, or do you simply believe Putin does not care how many innocent Crimeans will die?

What NATO atrocities in Yugoslavia in 1999 have to do with peaceful transition in Crimea?
How will NATO deal with the situation in Crimea? What situation? I am quite sure many of NATO soldiers will spend their holidays
in Crimea, it is a beautiful peninsula, a great tourist destination. Would like to visit one day.

reply to post by cosmonova

What NATO atrocities in Yugoslavia in 1999 have to do with peaceful transition in Crimea?

What makes you think NATO will let it stay peaceful?

DJW001
reply to post by cosmonova

 

What NATO atrocities in Yugoslavia in 1999 have to do with peaceful transition in Crimea?

What makes you think NATO will let it stay peaceful?

this

www.youtube.com...

cosmonova

DJW001
reply to post by cosmonova

 

What NATO atrocities in Yugoslavia in 1999 have to do with peaceful transition in Crimea?

What makes you think NATO will let it stay peaceful?

this

www.youtube.com...

ROFL!!!

Genocide-denial is quite common on ATS. "NATOs actions were unjust", "Saddam did not use chemical weapons against the Kurds", "the Holocaust never happened". Its sickening to see threads like these be bumped 24/7 thereby smearing the name of all those children and mothers who got slaughtered at the hands of hatred manifest.

Agent_USA_Supporter

SubTruth
reply to post by cosmonova

 

I remember a vice news dispatch with the Serbian guys wearing the 1903 patch helping out in Crimea. I am not to up on the history but from what I understand these were some bad guys. Were they on NATO's side during the war?

Were they on NATO's side during the war?

During the unjust your country allies were Albanians, Bosnian Muslims and Croatians.

I understand these were some bad guys.

They were bad if you still believe the news media outlets.

Why don't you do all of us a favor and just STFU ? What is unjust? What is agression? Trying to save hundred of thousands of lives? I was in Kosovo with Journalist Sans Frontier right in the middle of the conflict and saw first hand what serbs did to these poor people. I saw killings, mass graves, interviewed thousands of woman who were rapped and abused, their lives ruined, their families exterminated, their loved ones killed in the most barbaric way and you got the nerve to say that was NATO agression? Or media propaganda? I saw what the so called Arkan's tigers (beasts with man'ce face, animals with no heart) have done to innocent civilians and saw 1 MILLION people being displaced from their homes, their land, their lives and existence in the neighboring Albania and Macedonia and you still have the nerve to deny and call NATO's attack on serbs as an aggression? In moments like this I do wish and hope with my all heart that there is a God who takes notes and one day will make heartless pricks like you pay your inhumanity.

To all the mods, it should be a policy in this board that dis-informants and people who deny war crimes and atrocities against civilians (the same with them who deny holocaust) should be banned from ATS. I don't think it honors this board having among respected and decent users people like the one I quoted.

I'm disgusted to no end...

reply to post by hounddoghowlie

why were they waiting for years to react?
who stir up the pot there?

demus
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

why were they waiting for years to react?
who stir up the pot there?

why were they waiting for years to react?

the whole deal was a complected mess, unless you were alive and kept up with it, or lived there and were unbiased it's real hard to explain. but to put it real simple and basic.

the UN and NATO were involved in all the conflicts in one form or another. from 1992 starting with UN Peace Keepers which as in every area that has been done before turned out to be all but useless,sanctions were passed and monitoring on shipping and no fly zones. late 92 a UN resolution was passed and in early 93 they stared to stop and enforce the sanctions and no fly zones. also in 93 NATO was tasked with close air support of UNPROFOR, upon request from the UN.

in 94 NATO really started shooting and shot down four serb jets,and started doing close air support when requested by UN commanders.
in 95 serbs shot down a U.S.F-16 piloted by Scott O'Grady while patrolling and enforceing the no fly zone. in the middle of 95 Boutros Boutros-Ghali gave General Bernard Janvier, the UN military commander, the authority to request NATO airstrikes without consulting civilian UN officials. this made if easier for NATO air strikes to be used in other areas other than safe zones.

in Aug 28,95, serb forces launched a mortar attack on a sarajevo market killing 37 people. Admiral Leighton Smith, the NATO commander recommended that NATO retaliate with air strikes under the, Operation Deliberate Force Plan. on Aug 30,95, NATO officially launched Operation Deliberate Force with large-scale bombing of serb targets. the bombing lasted until Sept 20,95 ,there were 338 individual targets hit.

basicly due to the plan Operation Deliberate Force, the serbs knew they were whipped and agreed as well as the Bosniaks and Croats to a peace. this was known as the Dayton Peace Agreement ( Dayton Accords). the UN peace keepers UNPROFOR became IFOR and then all the other FOR'S which remained until 2004.

that was pretty much all of the offensive strikes until Kosovo. which NATO took up the the lead to stop a murderous government that they had seen in operation during the first part of the decade led by the same man, Milošević (slobydon ). and as before it didn't take that long until the serbs gave in.

who stir up the pot there?

well if you look at it without being biased, and are not a serb revisionist, it is plain to see it was slobydon and other serbs in power and their supporters. every time one ethnic group wanted to claim Independence, and form their own country, the serbs started raising hell, and attacked them. tried to kill them all or rape them out of existence.

i don't see how serbs can deny this when it's plain to see that slobydon wanted to control all of the land and his aim to was not restore Yugoslavia, but wanted to start a new Greater Serbia from all six parts.

there is a lot of info on the net about it, i suggest trying wiki first and then looking for other sites there are serb site and muslim, crortes and just about all you want to read and see. but i warn you some of the images that are on these sites are very unpleasant and can effect you greatly.

i don't want to get to graphic but i recall one site about the mass graves that the serbs used that showed a pregnant woman and her unborn child not fully decomposed, not a good view for the faint of heart.

As I said previously, that evil Serbs who just got bored and went on a killing spree, who wouldn't stop unless the great NATO and United States, the best things this world has to offer, interfered and as always, saved the day. Oh, God bless them.

The most ridiculous thing is when I hear people saying "yes, Serbs did genocide over people of the ex-yu". So funny. Wonder why? Because out of countries, out of all victims country, Serbia is the one with the most ethical diversity now days. Serbs from Croatia? Most "willingly" went away. Serbs from Kosovo? "Willingly" went away. Serbs from Bosnia? "Willingly went away".

I guess that old saying really is true. A hundred times told a lie, becomes a truth.

I would please the mods to close this thread because it is something that has happened just two decades ago, and the wounds are still fresh. Whenever I read lies about my country and my people, it hurts. Mostly because they are not true and I can't do anything to change it, because people are so blinded with anti serbs propaganda that has been going on for so long. I am fully aware of the things that Serbia has done. Hell, I was apart of some ugly situations. But what you need to understand is that, Croatia, Albania, Bosnians they all did the same things. I fail to understand why you won't acknowledge this? War is a terrible thing, and you are foolish if you think that only one side did horrible things.

And I urge you all. Please show some respect when talking about this war. I don't think you really understand just how many innocent lives got shut down for nothing. Please.

Nikola014
As I said previously, that evil Serbs who just got bored and went on a killing spree, who wouldn't stop unless the great NATO and United States, the best things this world has to offer, interfered and as always, saved the day. Oh, God bless them.

The most ridiculous thing is when I hear people saying "yes, Serbs did genocide over people of the ex-yu". So funny. Wonder why? Because out of countries, out of all victims country, Serbia is the one with the most ethical diversity now days. Serbs from Croatia? Most "willingly" went away. Serbs from Kosovo? "Willingly" went away. Serbs from Bosnia? "Willingly went away".

I guess that old saying really is true. A hundred times told a lie, becomes a truth.

I would please the mods to close this thread because it is something that has happened just two decades ago, and the wounds are still fresh. Whenever I read lies about my country and my people, it hurts. Mostly because they are not true and I can't do anything to change it, because people are so blinded with anti serbs propaganda that has been going on for so long. I am fully aware of the things that Serbia has done. Hell, I was apart of some ugly situations. But what you need to understand is that, Croatia, Albania, Bosnians they all did the same things. I fail to understand why you won't acknowledge this? War is a terrible thing, and you are foolish if you think that only one side did horrible things.

And I urge you all. Please show some respect when talking about this war. I don't think you really understand just how many innocent lives got shut down for nothing. Please.

As I said previously, that evil Serbs who just got bored and went on a killing spree, who wouldn't stop unless the great NATO and United States, the best things this world has to offer, interfered and as always, saved the day.

so i guess slobydon and all of the commanders and soldiers, that participated in the killings all got bored at the same time.
yes NATO and if you want to say the U.S. which was not there representing the U.S. intests, but was acting under orders of the UN and NATO did safe the day.

and this word you use interfered , interesting, most people would have said intervened or got involved. interfered is more like getting involved in something someone doesn't want you to or don't like that you are doing it. you know like interfering with serb business.

Serbia is the one with the most ethical diversity now days.

serbia wouldn't be if slobydon and his supporters would have had their way, and removed from power. it would have been all serbs.

Serbs from Croatia? Most "willingly" went away. Serbs from Kosovo? "Willingly" went away. Serbs from Bosnia? "Willingly went away".

and i wonder why, Serbs from Croatia? Most "willingly" went away. Serbs from Kosovo? "Willingly" went away. Serbs from Bosnia? "Willingly went away".
could it be that they were biggoted racists that didn't want to live in those countries if it wasn't a serb country. no i'm sure that's not the reason.
i'm sure they just wanted to let those people live in peace.

I guess that old saying really is true. A hundred times told a lie, becomes a truth.

so long as i and many others are alive, and serb revisionist try to make like they were the one who didn't do any wrong or claim that genocide was attempted on them that lie ant gonna work. the war crimes tribunal is prosecuting people on all sides not just serbs. they can't help it if there were more serb war criminals then others.

Whenever I read lies about my country and my people, it hurts. Mostly because they are not true and I can't do anything to change it, because people are so blinded with anti serbs propaganda that has been going on for so long.

well it's not propaganda, their still finding mass graves in serbia. two in the past 3 years. then there is all the other documented evidence, and confessions of ex serb soldiers. or is all that just made up also.

I am fully aware of the things that Serbia has done. Hell, I was apart of some ugly situations.

that's nothing to brag about, would have probably been better not to have said that.

But what you need to understand is that, Croatia, Albania, Bosnians they all did the same things. I fail to understand why you won't acknowledge this? War is a terrible thing, and you are foolish if you think that only one side did horrible things.

if you go back and look at my posts, i have said all sides have blood on their hands. serbs took to it with a zeal, and killed way more than the rest.

Now more about legality of NATO bombing in Yugoslavia.

In 2001, Walter Rockler, former prosecutor of Nazis in Nuremberg addressed the conference "Kosovo - Day of Truth - New and Dangers for Europe" held at Friends House, London, organised by Justice Yugoslavia (Campaign for Justice for the Peoples of Yugoslavia - CJPY) and Christians Against NATO Aggression (CANA), 24 February 2001.]

among other things he said:

'The question becomes, given the alleged purity of NATO motives having the objective of assuring truth, freedom and the democratic way, was this bombing subject to censure under international law? The short answer is that the bombing was an act in flagrant contempt of international law, and criminal under that law.'

than he said this:

'From another standpoint of international law, the conduct of the bombing by NATO constituted a war crime. Contrary to the beliefs of our war planners, unrestricted air bombing of civilian locations is barred under international law. Bombing the "infrastructure" of a country – waterworks, electricity plants, bridges and factories – is not an attack limited to legitimate military objectives. Our bombing has also caused an excessive loss of life and injury to civilians, which violates still another standard.'

And to repeat one more time ' unrestricted air bombing of civilian locations is barred under international law'.
That was exactly what NATO was doing for 78 days. So NATO did not focus on attack to legitimate military targets but rather
on infrastructure of a country, from bridges, plants, schools...with no regards to civilians who were not even living close to Kosovo.

feel free to read the rest of his speech, plain and simple but brutally truthful.
www.justiceyugoslavia.org...

AngryCymraeg

cosmonova
very good article from Current Concerns, The international journal for independent thought, ethical standards, moral responsibility, and for the promotion and respect of public international law, human rights and humanitarian law.


please read the rest,
www.currentconcerns.ch...

I am somewhat cautious of any website or publication that throws the words 'Neo-colonial' around. I tend to sense a political agenda.

And you are right @AngryCymraeg..

sorryserbia.com...

That woman is no peacemaker..

And now about destruction of Serbian churches and monasteries in Kosovo after NATO bombing in 1999

-Erasing the history of Christianity in Kosovo and Macedonia-

'On November 17, 2002 UNMIK police reported that the Serbian Orthodox Church, St. Basil the Miracle Worker of Ostrog (Sveti Vasilije Ostrovski) in Ljubovo village between Istok and Banja near Pec, had been totally destroyed with explosives, with only the front façade still intact. In Djurakovac, 30 miles west of Pristina, a second Serbian Orthodox Church was bombed/mined and heavily damaged, the Church of All Serbian Saints. The interior of the church was gutted following three explosions. This brought the number of Orthodox Churches destroyed or damaged since NATO and the UN occupied Kosovo to 112. This has been an unprecedented act of genocide. The planned and systematic destruction of the Christian history of Kosovo-Metohija under US/NATO/EU sponsorship. Churches that had survived for over 500 years under Ottoman Turkish rule were reduced to rubble under the protection of 30,000 NATO troops.'

A lot of details, photos, documents about erasing the history of Christianity in Kosovo can be found in this link

www.kosovo.net...


'The systematic destruction of Orthodox churches was reported in the mainstream media. In the Montreal Gazette article "God's Houses in Ruins" for February 27, 2000, Mark Abley noted: "The world keeps silent as Serb churches, monasteries are destroyed in Kosovo under noses of peacekeepers." Abley saw KFOR, NATO, and US complicity in the church destructions. Abley pointed out that on January 14, 2000, the Orthodox Church of St. Elias in Cernica was destroyed by explosives just 70 meters from a US checkpoint. KFOR troops from the United Arab Emirates were supposed to protect church property but they withdraw. The UCK then attacked the St. Nicholas Orthodox Church. Abley described the outcome: "It was soon blown to pieces." He argued that many of the churches were not only important for the Serbian Orthodox, but were a part of the European historical heritage. The destruction of the churches was a crime not only against the Serbs, but against the Orthodox religion, and against all Europeans, in fact, against mankind. These were crimes against humanity itself. But not as far as the US/NATO/KFOR were concerned.'



www.kosovo.net...


As you can see NATO humanitarians could not care less what is going on in Kosovo. They have achieved their main goal,
the largest US base, Camp Bondsteel established and access to vast mineral resources in Kosovo has been achieved.

Nikola014
As I said previously, that evil Serbs who just got bored and went on a killing spree, who wouldn't stop unless the great NATO and United States, the best things this world has to offer, interfered and as always, saved the day. Oh, God bless them.

The most ridiculous thing is when I hear people saying "yes, Serbs did genocide over people of the ex-yu". So funny. Wonder why? Because out of countries, out of all victims country, Serbia is the one with the most ethical diversity now days. Serbs from Croatia? Most "willingly" went away. Serbs from Kosovo? "Willingly" went away. Serbs from Bosnia? "Willingly went away".

I guess that old saying really is true. A hundred times told a lie, becomes a truth.

I would please the mods to close this thread because it is something that has happened just two decades ago, and the wounds are still fresh. Whenever I read lies about my country and my people, it hurts. Mostly because they are not true and I can't do anything to change it, because people are so blinded with anti serbs propaganda that has been going on for so long. I am fully aware of the things that Serbia has done. Hell, I was apart of some ugly situations. But what you need to understand is that, Croatia, Albania, Bosnians they all did the same things. I fail to understand why you won't acknowledge this? War is a terrible thing, and you are foolish if you think that only one side did horrible things.

And I urge you all. Please show some respect when talking about this war. I don't think you really understand just how many innocent lives got shut down for nothing. Please.

I do not agree with you, this thread should not be closed. I will keep posting more links, videos, articles as a reminder and inform in details people who do not know much about these crimes against humanity by NATO forces.This is something not to be forgotten. Otherwise will repeat elsewhere as it was in Iraq and Libya. I would also urge 'other' side to do the same, take a part with well documented posts not by rumbling nonsense like 'I interviewed 1000's raped women' etc as seen in posts before.

a reply to: cosmonova

I am sorry that your thread got treated in this manner but its really not surprising judging the similar replies in the Ukrainian updates thread.

When they have no arguments thats when they would start attacking you. Apparently some war mongers haven't enough of there sick fantasizes yet.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

I must admit that I've wondered many times in the last 10-12 years if we supported the wrong side...

originally posted by: amazing

cosmonova



Even if all that was true (far from that, but you have to justify your actions I suppose), why would they bombard the whole country and destroy most of the infrastructure, industry, etc? Why killing civilians in order to protect civilians?
Can you see any logic there? If there were war crimes as you are suggesting, NATO forces should focus on the parts of Yugoslavia where the war was. Have a look at this documentary first and then come to talk please.

I'm not justifying my actions, I'm not a NATO commander. I'm 100% positive that there were horrible crimes being committed and that NATO did the right thing in stopping them. But you say, "Even if all that was true." It was true. Why the doubt? NATO only intervened after two of the most brutal massacres and evidence of systematic rape. I think 50,000 rapes is one number being bandied about. Let's not forget that it was an intense civil war for years before NATO got involved.

I lived in Bosnian for 4 years and my wife is Bosnian and was in the Bosnian Army during the war. NATO had nothing to do with the start of this, that blame goes on to Serbia and their aggression in the region. Starting with their stripping of as much military hardware as they could get their hands n after the split of Yougoslovia. Next thet tried to attack Slovian and that didn’t work out. Then they attacked Croatia and finialy Bosnia. Do a little readin about the mass Bosnian graves the Serbs left and then ask who the aggressiors where. I will say that the Dayton Accords did do a very poor job of setting up the Bosnian government afterwards and left a unworkable mess there, but that is often the results after the military fight a war and let the diplomats form the peace.
That area of the world realy does need a man like Tito to hold all the factions together. I may not agree with all the man did, but Yogoslovia was a peaceful productive county under his rule.