Watchtower: God WANTS to be called JEHOVAH!

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

deeezbeats
I don't see what the big deal is. I personally think it's better to call God by his name rather than just LORD, since Jesus is also called Lord. Jesus has a name that he is called by. Jehovah should to.

edit on 30-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

I call Him Father, that's still ok, isn't it?

The point is this, as God simply means spirit, God isn't His name. But He does have a begotten son, whom He said to call Emmanuel but also Jesus. I wondered about that and came to the conclusion that Emmanuel must be His name in heaven, but for on earth, it is Jesus. However Jesus is pronounced in a language, just say it in your language, He knows who you are talking to.

Most people in the bible have names because they hold meanings. The angel told them to name The Child Immanuel because it means "God is with us". In Heaven, the angels are always with God so it couldn't be Immanuel. His name later became Jesus Which means Salvation, because he was to save mankind from all sins.

edit on 1-4-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

But isn't God with us in salvation?

Isn't it because we are now in communion with God but because we aren't in heaven yet, that salvation has brought us into that fellowship?

I know the meanings of names and the importance of names in the Bible.

WarminIndy

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

deeezbeats
I don't see what the big deal is. I personally think it's better to call God by his name rather than just LORD, since Jesus is also called Lord. Jesus has a name that he is called by. Jehovah should to.

edit on 30-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

I call Him Father, that's still ok, isn't it?

The point is this, as God simply means spirit, God isn't His name. But He does have a begotten son, whom He said to call Emmanuel but also Jesus. I wondered about that and came to the conclusion that Emmanuel must be His name in heaven, but for on earth, it is Jesus. However Jesus is pronounced in a language, just say it in your language, He knows who you are talking to.

Most people in the bible have names because they hold meanings. The angel told them to name The Child Immanuel because it means "God is with us". In Heaven, the angels are always with God so it couldn't be Immanuel. His name later became Jesus Which means Salvation, because he was to save mankind from all sins.

edit on 1-4-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

But isn't God with us in salvation?

Isn't it because we are now in communion with God but because we aren't in heaven yet, that salvation has brought us into that fellowship?

I know the meanings of names and the importance of names in the Bible.

I don;t know what you mean by "God is with us in Salvation" well kind of but not really. Anyways lets look at the facts, There is no mention of Jesus carrying the Immanuel other than during his birth.Not in heaven or anywhere else. In that situation, because Jesus is the one who acts likes Jehovah and copies his every move John 5:19. Through God's perfect representative Jesus, He was with them.John 16:27,28.

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

deeezbeats
I don't see what the big deal is. I personally think it's better to call God by his name rather than just LORD, since Jesus is also called Lord. Jesus has a name that he is called by. Jehovah should to.

edit on 30-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

I call Him Father, that's still ok, isn't it?

The point is this, as God simply means spirit, God isn't His name. But He does have a begotten son, whom He said to call Emmanuel but also Jesus. I wondered about that and came to the conclusion that Emmanuel must be His name in heaven, but for on earth, it is Jesus. However Jesus is pronounced in a language, just say it in your language, He knows who you are talking to.

Most people in the bible have names because they hold meanings. The angel told them to name The Child Immanuel because it means "God is with us". In Heaven, the angels are always with God so it couldn't be Immanuel. His name later became Jesus Which means Salvation, because he was to save mankind from all sins.

edit on 1-4-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

But isn't God with us in salvation?

Isn't it because we are now in communion with God but because we aren't in heaven yet, that salvation has brought us into that fellowship?

I know the meanings of names and the importance of names in the Bible.

I don;t know what you mean by "God is with us in Salvation" well kind of but not really. Anyways lets look at the facts, There is no mention of Jesus carrying the Immanuel other than during his birth.Not in heaven or anywhere else. In that situation, because Jesus is the one who acts likes Jehovah and copies his every move John 5:19. Through God's perfect representative Jesus, He was with them.John 16:27,28.

Salvation means what?

Doesn't it mean to bring us back into fellowship with God? Therefore God is with us in Salvation.

"No man comes to the Father but by Me".

WarminIndy

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

deeezbeats
I don't see what the big deal is. I personally think it's better to call God by his name rather than just LORD, since Jesus is also called Lord. Jesus has a name that he is called by. Jehovah should to.

edit on 30-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

I call Him Father, that's still ok, isn't it?

The point is this, as God simply means spirit, God isn't His name. But He does have a begotten son, whom He said to call Emmanuel but also Jesus. I wondered about that and came to the conclusion that Emmanuel must be His name in heaven, but for on earth, it is Jesus. However Jesus is pronounced in a language, just say it in your language, He knows who you are talking to.

Most people in the bible have names because they hold meanings. The angel told them to name The Child Immanuel because it means "God is with us". In Heaven, the angels are always with God so it couldn't be Immanuel. His name later became Jesus Which means Salvation, because he was to save mankind from all sins.

edit on 1-4-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

But isn't God with us in salvation?

Isn't it because we are now in communion with God but because we aren't in heaven yet, that salvation has brought us into that fellowship?

I know the meanings of names and the importance of names in the Bible.

I don;t know what you mean by "God is with us in Salvation" well kind of but not really. Anyways lets look at the facts, There is no mention of Jesus carrying the Immanuel other than during his birth.Not in heaven or anywhere else. In that situation, because Jesus is the one who acts likes Jehovah and copies his every move John 5:19. Through God's perfect representative Jesus, He was with them.John 16:27,28.

Salvation means what?

Doesn't it mean to bring us back into fellowship with God? Therefore God is with us in Salvation.

"No man comes to the Father but by Me".

Salvation means "to be saved". In the sense of Jesus, he is salvation because his coming into earth was so we can have eternal life. Without Jesus we wont be able to have eternal life. Also No Jesus= No New Testament. Likewise Jew's can't properly approach the Father because they don't use the New Testament. So in a sense yes, by means of the Ransom Sacrifice, we will be able to have join fellowship with God in his Kingdom.

reply to post by deeezbeats


LOL

So let me get this straight... You embrace the OT as the word of God, yet the people it was given to can't approach their God because they don't use another religions book...



Gotcha...

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

LOL

So let me get this straight... You embrace the OT as the word of God, yet the people it was given to can't approach their God because they don't use another religions book...

Gotcha...

Notice how I said "properly" approach, I was careful on purpose. The truth is any worshipper of the God of Israel should use the New Testament because it includes information for Followers of God to know about. The Jews that don't use the New Testament, are the same Jews that View The Christian Jesus as an apostate/blashphemer.

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

LOL

So let me get this straight... You embrace the OT as the word of God, yet the people it was given to can't approach their God because they don't use another religions book...

Gotcha...

Akra

For once you and I seem to be in the same chapter of a book, even if we aren't always on the same page all the time.

@Deeezbeats

If salvation means "to be saved" then what are we saved from?

Are we saved from sin or the punishment of sin?

I think I am going to have to go with Jesus about where Jewish people go when they die. Jesus said "Lazarus was resting in Abraham's Bosom" Jesus called him Father Abraham and there was a great gulf between hell and paradise, that I am sorry, but Jesus called it Abraham's Bosom.

So when Christians die, do they go to Abraham's Bosom? That's where Jesus said Lazarus went.

If Abraham's Bosom is paradise, and then paradise is in heaven with God, then Christians go to Abraham's Bosom and Jews go to paradise. Jesus called it. God with us in salvation.

I dipped out earlier and didn't realize this thread was still going.

I have nothing else to offer but appreciation for the knowledge of the members put forth here.

Thanks for learning me something new.

WarminIndy

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

LOL

So let me get this straight... You embrace the OT as the word of God, yet the people it was given to can't approach their God because they don't use another religions book...

Gotcha...

Akra

For once you and I seem to be in the same chapter of a book, even if we aren't always on the same page all the time.

@Deeezbeats

If salvation means "to be saved" then what are we saved from?

Are we saved from sin or the punishment of sin?

I think I am going to have to go with Jesus about where Jewish people go when they die. Jesus said "Lazarus was resting in Abraham's Bosom" Jesus called him Father Abraham and there was a great gulf between hell and paradise, that I am sorry, but Jesus called it Abraham's Bosom.

So when Christians die, do they go to Abraham's Bosom? That's where Jesus said Lazarus went.

If Abraham's Bosom is paradise, and then paradise is in heaven with God, then Christians go to Abraham's Bosom and Jews go to paradise. Jesus called it. God with us in salvation.

We are saved from sin/ and death. No Jesus dying= no ressurection.
Lazarus and the Rich man parable was Just a parable.There is no paradise side in Hades. Lazarus in that parable was not the same Lazarus that was ressurected.When the real Lazarus died Jesus didn't. Say he went to paradise, he saidnhe was sleeping.

deeezbeats

WarminIndy

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

LOL

So let me get this straight... You embrace the OT as the word of God, yet the people it was given to can't approach their God because they don't use another religions book...

Gotcha...

Akra

For once you and I seem to be in the same chapter of a book, even if we aren't always on the same page all the time.

@Deeezbeats

If salvation means "to be saved" then what are we saved from?

Are we saved from sin or the punishment of sin?

I think I am going to have to go with Jesus about where Jewish people go when they die. Jesus said "Lazarus was resting in Abraham's Bosom" Jesus called him Father Abraham and there was a great gulf between hell and paradise, that I am sorry, but Jesus called it Abraham's Bosom.

So when Christians die, do they go to Abraham's Bosom? That's where Jesus said Lazarus went.

If Abraham's Bosom is paradise, and then paradise is in heaven with God, then Christians go to Abraham's Bosom and Jews go to paradise. Jesus called it. God with us in salvation.

We are saved from sin/ and death. No Jesus dying= no ressurection.
Lazarus and the Rich man parable was Just a parable.There is no paradise side in Hades. Lazarus in that parable was not the same Lazarus that was ressurected.When the real Lazarus died Jesus didn't. Say he went to paradise, he saidnhe was sleeping.

Jesus called it Abraham's Bosom.

He asked Mary "Do you believe your brother will live?" she said "I believe he will be raised in the resurrection" then Jesus said "I AM the Resurrection and the life".

I AM the Resurrection. That means more than just His death.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Text If Abraham's Bosom is paradise, and then paradise is in heaven with God, then Christians go to Abraham's Bosom and Jews go to paradise. Jesus called it. God with us in salvation.

Good day Warminindy. Have always admired your posts and knowledge. Have given much thought to paradise and I maybe well off the track in my understanding but ran across this understanding only recently. Have posted it before but have gotten a lot of flack over my belief.

Remember the malefactors who were the companions next to Jesus as they all died? It is the belief of some that as Jesus died he appeared to the justified spirits who were in Sheol and led them from the confines of this earth into the kingdom of heaven. That kingdom of heaven is believed to be the New Jerusalem where the resurrected and justified spirits of Sheol received their new garments and names. It is here in the New Jerusalem that all justified spirits are received since that time. Since that resurrection all justified spirits now are received into the kingdom of heaven and no longer are confined in Sheol. The unjustified spirits remained and still remain in Sheol.

Now I have been taught by my Christian rabbi that as the one malefactor confessed to Jesus while on the cross that Jesus promised him to be in paradise as they both died. Now I do realize that this can be interpreted in several aspects but here is the Christian rabbi's teaching to me.

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Where is paradise at this time as Jesus was still alive? I believe it was in a compartment of Sheol. That is only to say that it was in Sheol before the righteous were resurrected into the kingdom of heaven.

2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 tells me that paradise is now in the third heaven. So sometime between Jesus' promise to the malefactor and 2nd Corinthians I see paradise moved into a celestial realm of the third heaven.

Revelation 2:7 Tells me that the tree of life is located in this paradise which is in the third heaven and that is where I assumed that this would be the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:2 and 22:14 confirms that the tree and water of life is in this paradise of New Jerusalem which is in the third heaven.

Now by third heaven is meant that the paradise is not located in this universe but is a celestial city in the celestial third heaven. Actually a person should read the last two chapters of Revelation to understand that it is a reality and not metaphoric as some believe.

After digesting this, it does seem reasonable to me to assume that a justified spirit will eat and drink the food and water of life to sustain the resurrected body. Is there any other teaching that supports any of this ? That is to your understanding?

Seede
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Text If Abraham's Bosom is paradise, and then paradise is in heaven with God, then Christians go to Abraham's Bosom and Jews go to paradise. Jesus called it. God with us in salvation.

Good day Warminindy. Have always admired your posts and knowledge. Have given much thought to paradise and I maybe well off the track in my understanding but ran across this understanding only recently. Have posted it before but have gotten a lot of flack over my belief.

Remember the malefactors who were the companions next to Jesus as they all died? It is the belief of some that as Jesus died he appeared to the justified spirits who were in Sheol and led them from the confines of this earth into the kingdom of heaven. That kingdom of heaven is believed to be the New Jerusalem where the resurrected and justified spirits of Sheol received their new garments and names. It is here in the New Jerusalem that all justified spirits are received since that time. Since that resurrection all justified spirits now are received into the kingdom of heaven and no longer are confined in Sheol. The unjustified spirits remained and still remain in Sheol.

Now I have been taught by my Christian rabbi that as the one malefactor confessed to Jesus while on the cross that Jesus promised him to be in paradise as they both died. Now I do realize that this can be interpreted in several aspects but here is the Christian rabbi's teaching to me.

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Where is paradise at this time as Jesus was still alive? I believe it was in a compartment of Sheol. That is only to say that it was in Sheol before the righteous were resurrected into the kingdom of heaven.

2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 tells me that paradise is now in the third heaven. So sometime between Jesus' promise to the malefactor and 2nd Corinthians I see paradise moved into a celestial realm of the third heaven.

Revelation 2:7 Tells me that the tree of life is located in this paradise which is in the third heaven and that is where I assumed that this would be the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:2 and 22:14 confirms that the tree and water of life is in this paradise of New Jerusalem which is in the third heaven.

Now by third heaven is meant that the paradise is not located in this universe but is a celestial city in the celestial third heaven. Actually a person should read the last two chapters of Revelation to understand that it is a reality and not metaphoric as some believe.

After digesting this, it does seem reasonable to me to assume that a justified spirit will eat and drink the food and water of life to sustain the resurrected body. Is there any other teaching that supports any of this ? That is to your understanding?

I think you have used enough verses to justify your position.

I am inclined to believe that as Jesus did indicate about Sheol, that Lazarus was indeed in Abraham's bosom and that when Jesus went into paradise to preach to the captives and then they physically arose from the dead as attested in the witnesses of those arisen saints, that paradise would be the promise given to the Jews.

Paul said he knew a man who went but came back uttering things that were not lawful.

And yes, the malefactor was indeed told by Jesus "this day shalt thou be WITH ME in paradise". Again, that is Emmanuel, God with us. Jesus also taught about the foolish and wise virgins and that it was a wedding, and that one must be wearing the wedding garments, whoever was invited. Even if one was not the Bride, one could still be a guest.

King James Version (KJV)

Matthew 22:
22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

As people call the Church the Bride, and the last verse of Revelation says "The Spirit and the Bride say Come". If the Bride is already there, then the Spirit and the Bride must be calling the guests.

John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Revelation 21 says the Bride is the New Jerusalem. We have been invited to the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21: 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

The paradise of God is the New Jerusalem and those who are called may freely come.

Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

This call to come to paradise has been since man was separated from God, but that those who heard the call, from every prophet onward until Jesus went back, the call has been "come to the paradise of God". It has been the longing of people since the separation. I have to believe that Righteous Enoch went into that paradise. As Paul said "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these things saying "I saw the Lord's return with ten thousands thousands of His saints". He saw the Lord return that hadn't even come into the world yet, but Enoch walked with God and was translated for God took him. He was taken to that paradise of God. If we are the Bride, then the friend of the Bridegroom is still welcome, because they are called. And we are called as guests to the wedding feast, absolutely.

But you are right on that the New Jerusalem is the paradise and that is what John saw. The Spirit and the Bride say come. Abraham went out by faith to seek a city whose builder and maker is God. He went to that paradise.

I quoted deexbeats and more quotes popped up so I am not positive who said what I just separated them so I could post.
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I don't see what the big deal is. I personally think it's better to call God by his name rather than just LORD, since Jesus is also called Lord. Jesus has a name that he is called by. Jehovah should to.
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Adonai is translated into Lord.It definitely isn't a name it is a title like "boss" is used today with a lot more respect.Yahoshua(Yahweh is salvation) is the name and only "personal" name of The Son even though he has many names(natures and characteristics) Yahoshua is his name in the same way the Fathers name is

אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה Ehyeh Asher Ehye ..I will be what I will be.

even though the Father has many names(.
..............

I call Him Father, that's still ok, isn't it?
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The point is this, as God simply means spirit, God isn't His name. But He does have a begotten son, whom He said to call Emmanuel but also Jesus. I wondered about that and came to the conclusion that Emmanuel must be His name in heaven, but for on earth, it is Jesus. However Jesus is pronounced in a language, just say it in your language, He knows who you are talking to.
........................

God does not simply mean "spirit".God is a translation of a title and in and of itself has no meaning.The name of the creator God is... Ehyeh Asher Ehye.

Yahweh IS spirit.The creator God does not "have a spirit" just as man does not "have" a spirit.Spirit means life.While I'm on the subject ...just to clear up the confusion.Man does not have a soul either.They are a soul.A soul is a living thing that has "life" spirit.The spirit of man is the "life of man".The soul of man will die when it has no spirit/life.That is what it means that when a "soul" dies it's "spirit" returns to the creator God which it came.

The mysticism that many have extrapolated from the scriptures is false.It is the doctrines of men and has no truth in it.These facts are all that man can know.Yahoshua continuously espoused the basics of salvation in the parables.The crux being you must be "born anew... from on high".He was not being "mystical".He was outlining the new birth process starting with inception and himself as being the seed.
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Most people in the bible have names because they hold meanings. The angel told them to name The Child Immanuel because it means "God is with us". In Heaven, the angels are always with God so it couldn't be Immanuel. His name later became Jesus Which means Salvation, because he was to save mankind from all sins.
......................
the scriptures never say the Father said to call him Emmanuel.The reference to Emmanuel being Yahoshua is in the scriptures one time in Matt 1:23 and is a quote from Isa 7:14.In Matt 1 Joseph had a dream and he was told to name his son Yahoshua.Matthew commented and said it was in fulfillment of the prophecy of Isa 7:14...to extrapolate it to ...he was called by the name Emmanuel is a huge stretch..No one in the scriptures calls him that.It is very clear his name is Yahoshua,He had many names but his name (nature, character) was Yahoshua and Is and will always be Yahoshua.
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But isn't God with us in salvation? Isn't it because we are now in communion with God but because we aren't in heaven yet, that salvation has brought us into that fellowship?
I know the meanings of names and the importance of names in the Bible.
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Salvation is a process not an event.Being in communion with the creator means to know the creator God.Yahoshua never said he "believed" in the Father only knew.He told the disciples they too would "know" the Father(be in communion with).
In the physical realm no one knew the Father except Yahoshua then the disciples when they became the apostles.However they did not completely enter the Kingdom of God realm.They were only on the narrow path that leads to the straight gate.No one else has been on the narrow path(they are the few are chosen) or will be on the narrow path in the physical realm.

None are in or are going to a place called heaven because it doesn't exist.It never says that in the scripture that is a religious extrapolation to fit a theological agenda.Yahoshua only spoke of a "kingdom" a realm of existence.He proclaimed the "coming" of the Kingdom of God(sometimes called the Kingdom of heaven or more accurately "the heavens") All of mankind will "enter" in the Kingdom /"realm" of the creator God.That is the purpose of salvation which is for ALL mankind..not just some who"believe" they are special because they "chose" themselves.
.......
.I don't know what you mean by "God is with us in Salvation" well kind of but not really. Anyways lets look at the facts, There is no mention of Jesus carrying the Immanuel other than during his birth.Not in heaven or anywhere else. In that situation, because Jesus is the one who acts likes Jehovah and copies his every move John 5:19. Through God's perfect representative Jesus, He was with them.John 16:27,28. ,,,,,......

It was just double talk meaning "they don't know what they are talking about". Salvation means deliverance. Yahoshua means Yahweh is the deliverer of salvation.What mankind is being delivered from is the valley of the shadow of death.That is the physical realm all of mankind lives in or has died in.That deliverance has many, many aspects to it.

Salvation is a process not an event.It is like a conception.Yahoshua outlined this in the parable of the seed and soils,.It directly connects to the 1st statement in scriptures in Genesis 1:1

"Elohim[the creator God] created the earth and heavens IN the beginning."

That is the crux of EVERYTHING.The beginning means firstfruit. The firstfruit is a seed.Yahoshua IS the seed.Everything was created In and through Yahoshua(that is what John was saying in John 1:1).The majority of Yahoshuas parables center around "conception.He uses plants as the metaphor.He didn't use human conception because no one understood it then except the basics.He doesn't go into details of what this conception "really is" because it is WAY beyond comprehension however it is parallel to the conception of a human.

First there is a seed..the spermatozoon.It is "sown" in the earth/soil (a woman) and when successful impregnates an egg.It becomes a zygote.(btw the core meaning of zygote is marriage).The zygote begins to split and multiply cells and becomes a embryo. When the organs are formed it becomes a fetus.When the fetus is fully formed it is "delivered" in birth"" into the physical realm... and of course in one sense it started in the physical realm in the loins of it's father and mother but now it is LIVING IN it.

It's all a process.From the very beginning the seed did not cause any of it's own growth.It is all part of "nature"..the nature of life...spirit. Mankind is under going this "conception".They are in the "womb" of the "earth"(the physical realm).Everyone is in or will be in a stage of conception.Some are still a seed that has not entered the womb some (many) are in one of the stages..and of course there are no definitive states of because it's a slow process.

contd

Yahoshua is the firstborn off all creation because he is the seed that became the firstfruit.The apostles are the firstfruitS.They were the first to be conceived. They are still a fetus.They are the ONLY fetuses.The Old testimony scriptures were types and shadows allegories of this process.The creator God bore "witness" to it through the archetypes of ALL of mankind..the children of Israel...Gods people.It was NEVER about the "genetic" people of Israel(reduced down to just the Judahites).Israel is ALL of mankind.

Salvation(from inception to birth) is for ALL mankind.The scriptures are the testimony of that process.It all starts with Genesis 1:1.....
God created the earth and heavens IN the beginning....and..... in the beginning God created the heavens and earth.

It's all a process being done and controlled 100% by the creator God.There is nothing to fear.The painful process is the death of your religion(what you believe is the truth but is not).Perfect love casts out fear....happy birthday to all.

Lazarus died not knowing the power of the resurrection and that is why Jesus said he is "sleeping." I hate to be the one to say it, but soul sleep is a concept that Jehovah Witnesses came up with because the don't understand the resurrection power of the finished work of the cross. Technically, they are just like Lazarus - asleep. Though they are some of the dullest (according to Jesus' standards) Christians I've come in contact with, they are not bad people.

It's a dangerous thing to be connected with some of these religious movements because you begin to allow others to think for you. Broad is the road that leads to destruction and narrow is the path that leads to life.

Speaking to the living, Jesus implores people to wake up and calls blessed those who stay awake. He has been lifted up and now draws ALL MEN to himself.

As far as his name is concerned - it's one thing to know it but another thing to know how to pronounce it.

reply to post by WarminIndy

If we are the Bride, then the friend of the Bridegroom is still welcome, because they are called. And we are called as guests to the wedding feast, absolutely.

Warminwindy,
Wanted to thank you for that answer. I referenced your article to my rabbi and his agreement pleased me greatly. In fact several of your remarks left him speechless because they had escaped his memory. I have much to learn and am convinced that much of this analogy and metaphoric language that is being used is simply because much is still hidden from the foolish. Mostly by their own pride and deafness. Thank You again Warminindy.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Though they are some of the dullest (according to Jesus' standards) Christians I've come in contact with, they are not bad people.

I just talked to two JW's yesterday who were coming down my street leaving flyers.
They were two really sharp women who knew their stuff, and could reply to anything that I threw at them.
They may be the exception to the general rule, though.
They were also able to confirm to me that in fact they are not supposed to be on forums like this, arguing points, for whatever reason, which is probably a dictate handed down from on high in their organization, and there to me is the real problem, having to stick to a line that someone else came up with.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Lazarus died not knowing the power of the resurrection and that is why Jesus said he is "sleeping."

Christ is said to be the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Last Enemy Destroyed 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

The bible clearly likens death to sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51 New King James Version (NKJV) 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

1 Thessalonians 4:14 New English Translation (NET) 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also we believe that God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep as Christians

1 Corinthians 15:6 New King James Version (NKJV) 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

Link

Seede
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

If we are the Bride, then the friend of the Bridegroom is still welcome, because they are called. And we are called as guests to the wedding feast, absolutely.

Warminwindy,
Wanted to thank you for that answer. I referenced your article to my rabbi and his agreement pleased me greatly. In fact several of your remarks left him speechless because they had escaped his memory. I have much to learn and am convinced that much of this analogy and metaphoric language that is being used is simply because much is still hidden from the foolish. Mostly by their own pride and deafness. Thank You again Warminindy.

Well that's the first time anyone said a rabbi agreed with me.

Sometimes religious people can't see the soul that needs ministered to. Jesus said "I came to set the captives free". Unless we learn to minister, we should not claim to be ministers. The Gospel is to minister, not to flaunt around like a toy "Look what I got and you can't play with it because it's mine".

As long as you remember that what you learn and the more you know Jesus, the more you will understand ministering to people. You seem to have a good grasp already on that.

reply to post by dusty1


It did imply that those who were dead were asleep - but that is a moot point now because all are made alive in Christ.

"He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him." 1 Thessalonians 5:10

As long as a person believes with their whole heart He is who He said He is it's okay to not be completely awake before you die. However, He would prefer people come into that knowledge before death, so they can experience life to the fullness.

'"But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."' Matthew 8:22 (also in Luke 9:60)

Just as there is a difference in being asleep and awake there is a distinct difference in being dead and being alive.

The power of the resurrection is Christ in you. How he gets inside the believer, well, that truth is only revealed on the narrow path.