Faith or Works or Both?

jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

Only when you read Paul... which is where the whole faith alone idea came from in the first place...

Excpt that Paul didn't write that.
That little phrase is taken out of a larger statement in Ephesians, which was written after Paul, but superficially made to look like it had been written by Paul.

Actually that passage I posted came from Romans...

I think that Jesus was being rhetorical here.
What he is talking about are those who call themselves righteous, or "The Righteous" who were going to "save" Israel, at least in their own rhetoric, and I mean this literally, the people we think of as the Pharisees wrote this in their own literature, and anyone not of their little group were by them literally called "The Sinners'.

I don't think he was actually... He reiterates this sentiment in other gospels as well...

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance

Though perhaps he meant the self righteous... hmm

I like to imagine that whatever this situation is where something like this could exist, there might be even more people like the one you point out, doing good, if they had heard about Jesus.

I agree with this as well, but perhaps these people that I am speaking of are actually chosen by God already... even if they didn't know it?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Per your suggestion, I watched that movie, "Seeking a Friend for the End of the World"

Wow. How did I not know this movie existed? It was amazing.

reply to post by Akragon

Actually that passage I posted came from Romans...

Seems I was commenting on the verse that I thought that graphuto was referring to.
The closest match to "salvation by faith alone" is Ephesians 2:8.

reply to post by graphuto

How did I not know this movie existed?

It was discussed briefly on the conspiracy in religion sub-forum when it came out. I wanted to see it then, but I watched it recently when it came on a channel that I subscribe to.
Kind of formulaic so I don't think that I spoiled any surprises.
I think it does a good job of showing the different ways people would react, including completely ignoring it.
The funniest part to me was the dude with titanium house supports who thought he would just survive it.

jmdewey60
reply to post by Maigret

 

I would be very happy if my beliefs did turn out to be nothing more than sensationalist theories!

You will go on living, and eventually dying, never being able to prove that you were right.
Meanwhile, you burned up a lot of energy fretting over things that you are meant to feel relieved about if you just read Revelation for what it means, rather than listening to preachers making a living off of people's fears.

You dismay me... You tell me not 'to listen to a bunch of preachers....', without knowing the Source of my information.

You also say I will never be able to prove I'm right, but I've already proven that you do not have the 'eyes to see'.

jmdewey60
reply to post by Maigret

 

I would be very happy if my beliefs did turn out to be nothing more than sensationalist theories!

Part 2, since it is too late to edit my earlier post.
I may seem rather flippant on the apocalypse issue but I really am not, at least internally.
I am a Seventh Day Adventist, and the last (and main) word in the title stands for the Second Coming.
The difference (from other denomination) is the urgency of this coming (since they all at least give it lip service).
You can look at that two ways, either it is going to happen right now so you need to get righteous really fast, or it is inevitable that judgment is coming and you need to get really righteous, and the sooner the better because you don't know when you might die.
I used to take the first approach mainly because that was how I was taught.
Based on my own research, I now take the second approach.

I think we as a people in Western culture have reached a saturation point where we are now mostly immune to being startled by predictions of the end of the world, so it isn't much use as an evangelistic tool as it was maybe in the nineteenth century, especially since it has been used from that point to today.

I recommend watching the movie, Seeking a Friend for the End of the World.
People in it take it in stride basically when they are told on the news that an asteroid is coming that will kill all life on earth, and they are really only interested in being happy when it happens, to be with someone who they feel good with, and that's it.

Melancholia is good too, but you need to watch it three times (a bit tedious in places) to really get it.

edit on 5-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Instead of recommending movies that put over your beliefs, why don't you look to God for your answers and/or ask the prophets? If any religion was genuine, it would be able to put you in personal contact with the Almighty!

Your banner is to 'Light up the world, with the Light of the world', but you don't even know his name! If you think it is 'Jesus' then think again - better still, check your 'facts'!

I'd quote the relevant Bible verses, but you seem to think it's all metaphorical and that his warnings are not to be taken literally.

reply to post by Maigret

You dismay me... You tell me not 'to listen to a bunch of preachers....', without knowing the Source of my information.

Even if you read it in a book, it was probably written by a preacher.

You also say I will never be able to prove I'm right, but I've already proven that you do not have the 'eyes to see'.

And how did you do that, because I was not given a vision telling me where you came up with your theories from?
Does your private prophet also act as a psychic?

reply to post by Maigret

Instead of recommending movies that put over your beliefs . . .

They have nothing to do with my beliefs about apocalypticism, but what I believe about human nature and how there is a limit to how much they will react to fear mongering.
There is a limit, then the mind shuts down, and will not accept any more.
I don't think that Revelation was written to add to the already existing plethora of scary apocalyptic literature of that time.
I think it was meant to give a resolution to the anxiety of the time, considering events like the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of its temple by the Romans in 70 AD.

why don't you look to God for your answers and/or ask the prophets? If any religion was genuine, it would be able to put you in personal contact with the Almighty!

What makes you think that I haven't been doing just that for the last 50 years?

Your banner is to 'Light up the world, with the Light of the world', but you don't even know his name! If you think it is 'Jesus' then think again - better still, check your 'facts'!

The light is an aspect of God, per John 1, and also by that same chapter, it dwelt in the person, Jesus.
If you know otherwise, please enlighten me.

I'd quote the relevant Bible verses, but you seem to think it's all metaphorical and that his warnings are not to be taken literally.

Go ahead and quote some.
If you think when it says, Babylon, it literally means Babylon, as in the city in Mesopotamia, then I think you don't understand the use of metaphor.