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God's Law; Your slaves

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posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 08:05 AM
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'And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
Notwithstanding, if he survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.'


No no you guys don't understand, these rules are actually there for the benefit of the slaves, for their welfare....

And look at other contemporary civilizations from around that primitive and debased time (except the Chinese, or anyone that can read and write) it's plain to see that the 'laws' set in the bible are 'god' inspired laws and rules, as they're ever so slightly different in a way that's so subtle that you'd think it was just natural progression.....but you see.....

...I went to school and met many many teachers (I've never mentioned this before) and so this gives me a very accessible analogy on how god approaches the question of giving laws to the people of Israel and subsequently and hopefully the rest of the world.

Are you ready for it? (tension)

He/she behaves live a teacher

he/she teaches people over a series of weeks (not days because the universe and everything it in it takes that long) on social issues and problems, such as morality, sex education, woman's rights, how not to rape, child abuse and many other important issues all in order to produce a better society and world.

But he/she cannot teach people that slavery is wrong in such a short amount of time, that'll take well over 2,000 years.

As this god apparently 'struggles' with the 'hardness' of mans heart, despite it being him/her that created man, despite him/her being all knowing/all powerful........he/she still 'struggles'....

Well it's either that or this is just a collection of scribbles from desert dwelling primitive and debased sheep/goat headers from ancient Palestine, that've been picked up by people living in the west and (hilariously) the USA......

And yes while every single opponent to the abolishment of slavery since then has used the bible as their authority and justification, there have been a few that have learnt from secular reasoning and rejected this endorsement by the bible of people as property.


'However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way'






posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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Prezbo369

'And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
Notwithstanding, if he survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.'


No no you guys don't understand, these rules are actually there for the benefit of the slaves, for their welfare....

And look at other contemporary civilizations from around that primitive and debased time (except the Chinese, or anyone that can read and write) it's plain to see that the 'laws' set in the bible are 'god' inspired laws and rules, as they're ever so slightly different in a way that's so subtle that you'd think it was just natural progression.....but you see.....

...I went to school and met many many teachers (I've never mentioned this before) and so this gives me a very accessible analogy on how god approaches the question of giving laws to the people of Israel and subsequently and hopefully the rest of the world.

Are you ready for it? (tension)

He/she behaves live a teacher

he/she teaches people over a series of weeks (not days because the universe and everything it in it takes that long) on social issues and problems, such as morality, sex education, woman's rights, how not to rape, child abuse and many other important issues all in order to produce a better society and world.

But he/she cannot teach people that slavery is wrong in such a short amount of time, that'll take well over 2,000 years.

As this god apparently 'struggles' with the 'hardness' of mans heart, despite it being him/her that created man, despite him/her being all knowing/all powerful........he/she still 'struggles'....

Well it's either that or this is just a collection of scribbles from desert dwelling primitive and debased sheep/goat headers from ancient Palestine, that've been picked up by people living in the west and (hilariously) the USA......

And yes while every single opponent to the abolishment of slavery since then has used the bible as their authority and justification, there have been a few that have learnt from secular reasoning and rejected this endorsement by the bible of people as property.


'However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way'




If you've been to school and met teachers (as though you needed to mention this), then you would know there are things teachers must first do, and that is educate.

(I'm not sure if you meant in your statement that you simply went into schools and met teachers or that you were a student, right now it sounds like the former)

I don't know where you were educated, but when I was, the lessons of morality were still taught by our parents. The fact that it now is taught in school, means your parents must have been too dumb to teach you anything at home so the school system had to. Go figure, modern education.

And tell me, when did ancient Palestine actually become Palestine? When you use that name, please make sure you use it in the correct historical context, because Palestine did not exist prior to Hadrian. To use it historically improperly would be saying the Paleo Native Americans lived in ancient United States.

As you indicate that the teachers you met had slowly over time taught you how to behave in public, somehow the more fundamental aspects of grammar and history are lost. The educators taught you not to, but did they teach you why not to? That should have been something your parents already did.

I can see how reading and grammar was less fundamental in your educational experience. You don't seem to remember that you and I have had this conversation before.

HOWEVER, you may. That means you have a choice not to, so it is NOT a direct commandment or expectation. I think maybe you need to read higher level books, including dictionaries and encyclopedias, you might actually benefit from doing so. And while we are on that subject of you being taught social behavioral skills, can you tell us exactly what your teachers said were the moral reasons not to do those things?

But let me point this out to Disraeli...prezbo went to schools and met teachers, that's why prezbo can present a "unique" analogy. However, prezbo doesn't share with us the moral reasons behind the social behavior prezbo was programmed to follow.


edit on 4/1/2014 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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DarksideOz
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


You say that there is nothing in the laws that 'justifies' slavery, yet by their very mention in the texts, and the rules and conditions set in place, then it IS justifying it's use. If it didn't justify it, then it wouldn't exist as a rule in those text. Any text, religious or other, that justifies [has set rules in place] slavery is going against free will.

You keep saying I am going off topic, yet you choose to engage with me. This thread seems to of lost its appeal to most so I don't see why it is an issue, and I believe it does relate to this topic but from another angle. If you can't see that angle, then that is no fault of mine.

For me, the problem that arises from "free will", is that is was not defined so it can be very open to interpretation and personal opinion, much like with everything relating to religion. How many people have died throughout history under the name of religion purely because of another human[s] interpretation of Religion ?

Look at how many people on this planet believe without doubt that "God" does exist, yet who on this planet can say with absolute 100% proof what or who God is ?











I think it only lost the appeal to you. What is interesting is that people who claim they don't want to know this God or what this God says or does, seem to be trapped by some inherent need to keep coming here and discussing what this God says and does. it's almost as if God were a magnet and you are drawn to Him, even though you feel as though it's by your own choice of free will. Think about it, as iron has no free will against a magnet, the magnet will always draw the iron as long as the magnet has more strength.

That's what I am seeing, God is a strong magnet and you are the iron, and you inexplicably are drawn to Him, whether you like it or not. Even if it is to dispute, you are still drawn to threads where God is mentioned and then you talk about God. How interesting.

You don't know what God is, well, in your case I would say God is a magnetic force that draws you.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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Prezbo369
No no you guys don't understand, these rules are actually there for the benefit of the slaves, for their welfare....

Yes, I consider it a benefit for the slave when the master is punished if the slave is killed or injured.
Certainly a great improvement on the laws of Babylon or Rome.
If you were a slave yourself, you would much prefer to live under Israelite law than under Roman law, especially when the free gifts (from the flock, from the threshing-floor, and from the vine-press) were handed over at the end of your time of service.


while every single opponent to the abolishment of slavery since then has used the bible as their authority and justification

Nevertheless, the proponents of the abolition of slavery got their motivation out of the Bible, which was my point; that the principle which opposed slavery was there in the Bible to be found.
If they were Christians, they got it out of the Bible directly.
If they were non-religious humanitarians, they got it out of the Bible indirectly.



edit on 1-4-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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DarksideOz
You say that there is nothing in the laws that 'justifies' slavery, yet by their very mention in the texts, and the rules and conditions set in place, then it IS justifying it's use.

No, it isn't. That argument is very strained.
You might as well say that human laws "justify" theft and murder by the very fact that they talk about them.
These laws are a)seeking to minimise the evil effects of slavery, and b) trying to push the people away from the practice of having slaves at all.
That is the opposite of "justifying" slavery.


You keep saying I am going off topic

No I don't. I haven't even said it once. My charge has been that you were producing a false argument by confusing two different things, namely "freewill" in relation to God, and whether we live under human control.
I was trying to untangle the confusion.


How many people have died throughout history under the name of religion purely because of another human[s] interpretation of Religion ?...

Whereas that's the kind of tangential argument which is off-topic, and I won't respond to such on this thread.


edit on 1-4-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 





That's what I am seeing, God is a strong magnet and you are the iron, and you inexplicably are drawn to Him, whether you like it or not. Even if it is to dispute, you are still drawn to threads where God is mentioned and then you talk about God. How interesting.
You don't know what God is, well, in your case I would say God is a magnetic force that draws you.


EEeeww!

That's like a rapist telling their victims that they asked for it and that they liked it!



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Free will is never mentioned in the Bible. It's God's dirty little secret that the Bible seeks to talk you out of. The Bible doesn't promote free will, it condemns it!

The Free Will Conspiracy of the Bible



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 





That's what I am seeing, God is a strong magnet and you are the iron, and you inexplicably are drawn to Him, whether you like it or not. Even if it is to dispute, you are still drawn to threads where God is mentioned and then you talk about God. How interesting.
You don't know what God is, well, in your case I would say God is a magnetic force that draws you.


EEeeww!

That's like a rapist telling their victims that they asked for it and that they liked it!



Explain to me, using your example of the unifying force with non-moral judgment, why are you passing moral judgment against rapists?

Can you tell me from a non-moral judgmental position, why rape is wrong? You are going to have to address it at some point that you can't demand non-moral judgment and then be a moral judge, either moral judgement exists or it doesn't.

You said it yourself, god is unifying force of love without moral judgment.

Therefore, God can't judge or hate slavery or rape and neither can you, if you believe in such a being.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 





Explain to me, using your example of the unifying force with non-moral judgment, why are you passing moral judgment against rapists?


First, please explain to me why the god of the Bible endorses rape.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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Since debt was a major factor taking people into slavery, this thread can be seen as a sequel to;
The poor always with you



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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DISRAELI
Since debt was a major factor taking people into slavery, this thread can be seen as a sequel to;
The poor always with you


In other words, there will always be selfish and clever people to enslave the simple and trusting masses.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 





Explain to me, using your example of the unifying force with non-moral judgment, why are you passing moral judgment against rapists?


First, please explain to me why the god of the Bible endorses rape.



Explain why it's wrong. If you can't explain why it is wrong, then God can't be wrong for endorsing it. That's too hard to admit, isn't it?



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Rape is just as wrong as slavery. Both of which are endorsed by the God of the Bible and defended and justified by Christians, Jews and Muslims.

As a rape survivor, I find it too tedious to argue with you why rape and slavery are wrong.



edit on 1-4-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 03:06 AM
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WarminIndy

DarksideOz
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


You say that there is nothing in the laws that 'justifies' slavery, yet by their very mention in the texts, and the rules and conditions set in place, then it IS justifying it's use. If it didn't justify it, then it wouldn't exist as a rule in those text. Any text, religious or other, that justifies [has set rules in place] slavery is going against free will.

You keep saying I am going off topic, yet you choose to engage with me. This thread seems to of lost its appeal to most so I don't see why it is an issue, and I believe it does relate to this topic but from another angle. If you can't see that angle, then that is no fault of mine.

For me, the problem that arises from "free will", is that is was not defined so it can be very open to interpretation and personal opinion, much like with everything relating to religion. How many people have died throughout history under the name of religion purely because of another human[s] interpretation of Religion ?

Look at how many people on this planet believe without doubt that "God" does exist, yet who on this planet can say with absolute 100% proof what or who God is ?











I think it only lost the appeal to you. What is interesting is that people who claim they don't want to know this God or what this God says or does, seem to be trapped by some inherent need to keep coming here and discussing what this God says and does. it's almost as if God were a magnet and you are drawn to Him, even though you feel as though it's by your own choice of free will. Think about it, as iron has no free will against a magnet, the magnet will always draw the iron as long as the magnet has more strength.

That's what I am seeing, God is a strong magnet and you are the iron, and you inexplicably are drawn to Him, whether you like it or not. Even if it is to dispute, you are still drawn to threads where God is mentioned and then you talk about God. How interesting.

You don't know what God is, well, in your case I would say God is a magnetic force that draws you.


Can you please show me where I have had "some inherent need to KEEP coming here and discussing what this God says and does". Please do not make the mistake of trying to associate with me some misconceived perception you have of others.

If you are going to say that "God is a strong magnet and I am the iron", then can you please prove to me that God does exist with something other than your own beliefs. I have NEVER said that I don't believe in a God, but I am yet to meet any credible evidence or proof of his/her existence which proves it beyond any doubt. I am very open minded to religion, but I believe being open minded is keeping your options open rather then giving yourself to one of many religions, as if it was like picking your sporting team and then supporting them at all cost, even if that cost if a biased, or one-eyed opinion. Many religious text have are nothing but a re-written, or re-worded attempt by MAN to play God. Anyone who believes in those religions needs their head checked for some sign of common sense. You may not agree with this, but you are presenting me with nothing valid to change my mind.

I believe that something out there must of started all this, but there is not one single person on the planet that can prove beyond doubt that their chosen religion is THE religion. I do believe in a form of "God", but that is my own personal opinion. Do I believe that any of todays religions even come close to explaining the real story of God........HELL NO.

Everyone forms their own opinion on each religion, so what makes you think your opinion is better or superior to others.

But any religious text that endorses slavery is just a man made text posing as a religious doctrine to benefit those writing it. How many more examples of it do you need before you can finally see it ?

You might not agree with my opinion, but I do not agree with yours either. This doesn't mean I'm right, but I certainly hope you realise it doesn't make you right either. Religion comes down to many factors. It could be your own personal opinion. It could be the upbringing you had at home. It could be the country you are born in if that country has a religion that has a monopoly on that country. But can ANY religion prove that it IS the word of God, and not re-written by man ? Just as a clue, if it has slavery in its texts, then its a fake and written by man. Disagree all you want, but you are presenting nothing other than your own opinion to prove it wrong.

I am not an atheist, but I do not believe in any of todays "Gods" purely because I put logic before belief. If you put belief before logic, then your judgement is already clouded !



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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DarksideOz

WarminIndy

DarksideOz
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


You say that there is nothing in the laws that 'justifies' slavery, yet by their very mention in the texts, and the rules and conditions set in place, then it IS justifying it's use. If it didn't justify it, then it wouldn't exist as a rule in those text. Any text, religious or other, that justifies [has set rules in place] slavery is going against free will.

You keep saying I am going off topic, yet you choose to engage with me. This thread seems to of lost its appeal to most so I don't see why it is an issue, and I believe it does relate to this topic but from another angle. If you can't see that angle, then that is no fault of mine.

For me, the problem that arises from "free will", is that is was not defined so it can be very open to interpretation and personal opinion, much like with everything relating to religion. How many people have died throughout history under the name of religion purely because of another human[s] interpretation of Religion ?

Look at how many people on this planet believe without doubt that "God" does exist, yet who on this planet can say with absolute 100% proof what or who God is ?



I think it only lost the appeal to you. What is interesting is that people who claim they don't want to know this God or what this God says or does, seem to be trapped by some inherent need to keep coming here and discussing what this God says and does. it's almost as if God were a magnet and you are drawn to Him, even though you feel as though it's by your own choice of free will. Think about it, as iron has no free will against a magnet, the magnet will always draw the iron as long as the magnet has more strength.

That's what I am seeing, God is a strong magnet and you are the iron, and you inexplicably are drawn to Him, whether you like it or not. Even if it is to dispute, you are still drawn to threads where God is mentioned and then you talk about God. How interesting.

You don't know what God is, well, in your case I would say God is a magnetic force that draws you.


Can you please show me where I have had "some inherent need to KEEP coming here and discussing what this God says and does". Please do not make the mistake of trying to associate with me some misconceived perception you have of others.

If you are going to say that "God is a strong magnet and I am the iron", then can you please prove to me that God does exist with something other than your own beliefs. I have NEVER said that I don't believe in a God, but I am yet to meet any credible evidence or proof of his/her existence which proves it beyond any doubt. I am very open minded to religion, but I believe being open minded is keeping your options open rather then giving yourself to one of many religions, as if it was like picking your sporting team and then supporting them at all cost, even if that cost if a biased, or one-eyed opinion. Many religious text have are nothing but a re-written, or re-worded attempt by MAN to play God. Anyone who believes in those religions needs their head checked for some sign of common sense. You may not agree with this, but you are presenting me with nothing valid to change my mind.

I believe that something out there must of started all this, but there is not one single person on the planet that can prove beyond doubt that their chosen religion is THE religion. I do believe in a form of "God", but that is my own personal opinion. Do I believe that any of todays religions even come close to explaining the real story of God........HELL NO.

Everyone forms their own opinion on each religion, so what makes you think your opinion is better or superior to others.

But any religious text that endorses slavery is just a man made text posing as a religious doctrine to benefit those writing it. How many more examples of it do you need before you can finally see it ?

You might not agree with my opinion, but I do not agree with yours either. This doesn't mean I'm right, but I certainly hope you realise it doesn't make you right either. Religion comes down to many factors. It could be your own personal opinion. It could be the upbringing you had at home. It could be the country you are born in if that country has a religion that has a monopoly on that country. But can ANY religion prove that it IS the word of God, and not re-written by man ? Just as a clue, if it has slavery in its texts, then its a fake and written by man. Disagree all you want, but you are presenting nothing other than your own opinion to prove it wrong.

I am not an atheist, but I do not believe in any of todays "Gods" purely because I put logic before belief. If you put belief before logic, then your judgement is already clouded !



Let's see here. The reason I say God is a magnet is that you FEEL THE NEED TO RESPOND.

That is what magnetism is, causes the other to RESPOND.

Had this been titled "The Laws of Queztlcoatl : Your slaves" would you have been as quick to jump in and say you don't think Quetzlcoatl was an evil being for endorsing slavery?

Tell me I am wrong, but count on your hand the many threads that have GOD in the title, that you FEEL THE NEED to respond to. You might say you want to learn more (drawn to learning about), rebut (drawn to answering against) or simply to argue about (drawn to fight against).

But the mere fact that you do respond to what you feel the need to respond about, means that psychologically you do embrace the existence of God in your subconscious. It's not that I have to prove God exists, it's whether or not you are ready to let go of God within your own subconscious. But you keep feeling the need to cruise through the Faith and Religion section of ATS, to find threads that mention God.

Of course you are open, because psychologically you are afraid to let God totally go. And so God must be real enough to you and I don't have to prove one way or another. Your subconscious embraces Him, whether you like it or not. And God is a magnet, because you respond.

The next time you feel the need, ask yourself where it is coming from within yourself. Logically, you do believe in the God of the Bible.



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Rape is just as wrong as slavery. Both of which are endorsed by the God of the Bible and defended and justified by Christians, Jews and Muslims.

As a rape survivor, I find it too tedious to argue with you why rape and slavery are wrong.



edit on 1-4-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)


But WarminIndy wouldn't know anything about that, would she?

But windword, you are going to have to accept your definition is placed onto rapists and slavers. You are angry at God because God didn't stop it? But then you say God is a unifying force of non-judgmental love? By your definition, YOUR definition, because from a moralistic standpoint, where there is no morality, then there is no moral judgment. I know much more than you think.

The Book of Leviticus isn't an endorsement of anything, it is the basis of statutes and codes by which the Danites were to judge by. The Danites were their Supreme Court. Yes, they had a ruling body of judges.

So when you see the word IF, then it means IF you have slaves, then this is how you are to treat them, if you don't treat them like this and brought before the judges, then THIS is the punishment. But there had to be legal definition. Could the Danites amend laws? Certainly they could.

But one important thing to remember is that Moses was not a Danite, he was a Levite, therefore he did not have legal capacity to judge or advocate. If there were no definition of slave in the Levitical law or even definition of slave, then there could be laws for punishment. Because there were laws for punishment means that the Supreme Court Danites needed legal definition in the form of statutes to enforce guilt or find someone innocent.



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 





But windword, you are going to have to accept your definition is placed onto rapists and slavers. You are angry at God because God didn't stop it?


I don't believe in that kind of a god. I don't believe that the Bible is the word of God, because I don't believe in the kind of a god that writes books.

I don't believe in a god that interferes in human society and makes laws about beating your slaves, stoning your teenagers, going to war or sacrificing animals.

I don't believe in a god that has a "morality" that he tried to impose on desert people. I don't believe in empirical morality or in an empirical law giver. Furthermore, the morality espoused in the so called word of god, is not a very high standard, or bar to meet.

I don't believe in your god or his laws, I don't believe them or him to be good!



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 11:17 AM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 





But windword, you are going to have to accept your definition is placed onto rapists and slavers. You are angry at God because God didn't stop it?


I don't believe in that kind of a god. I don't believe that the Bible is the word of God, because I don't believe in the kind of a god that writes books.

I don't believe in a god that interferes in human society and makes laws about beating your slaves, stoning your teenagers, going to war or sacrificing animals.

I don't believe in a god that has a "morality" that he tried to impose on desert people. I don't believe in empirical morality or in an empirical law giver. Furthermore, the morality espoused in the so called word of god, is not a very high standard, or bar to meet.

I don't believe in your god or his laws, I don't believe them or him to be good!




No matter what you say about not believing in this god or his laws, the point is you are going to have to address at some point your statement about a "god that is a non-judgmental force of love". That's the god you are going to have to address.

You believe in a god that is a non-judgmental unifying force of love. Therefore, YOUR definition of YOUR god implies that morality is IRRELEVANT because YOUR god cannot EVER judge immorality, even rape or slavery.

Don't throw this back on the God of the Bible, because you reject laws regarding slavery and rape, when your god doesn't even have laws against it in the first place. Your god doesn't even have punishment, just the old "karma" you get what's coming to you...however even karma goes AGAINST non-judgmental love.

Even Jesus in our Bible said "you reap what you sow", and yet you reject the God of Jesus, because He said there was a punishment. How strange is that? If karma gets you, then apparently there is a moral code outside of the human experience, that our Jesus said there is. So which is it, non-judgmental love or a moral code dictated by a spiritual force?

If there is a moral code, then your god doesn't exist.



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 





No matter what you say about not believing in this god or his laws, the point is you are going to have to address at some point your statement about a "god that is a non-judgmental force of love". That's the god you are going to have to address.


Why?


You believe in a god that is a non-judgmental unifying force of love. Therefore, YOUR definition of YOUR god implies that morality is IRRELEVANT because YOUR god cannot EVER judge immorality, even rape or slavery.


That's right, I don't believe in a god that is person with opinions on what is right and wrong, good and evil.


Don't throw this back on the God of the Bible, because you reject laws regarding slavery and rape, when your god doesn't even have laws against it in the first place. Your god doesn't even have punishment, just the old "karma" you get what's coming to you...however even karma goes AGAINST non-judgmental love.


The Biblical god is a creation in and of itself. I don't believe in the existence of this god of the Bible. I don't know what your definition of karma is, but i'm pretty sure I'm going to disagree with it too.


Even Jesus in our Bible said "you reap what you sow",


So what?


and yet you reject the God of Jesus, because He said there was a punishment. How strange is that? If karma gets you, then apparently there is a moral code outside of the human experience, that our Jesus said there is. So which is it, non-judgmental love or a moral code dictated by a spiritual force?


I don't believe that that the god of Jesus was the same god as depicted in the OT.


If there is a moral code, then your god doesn't exist.


That makes no sense. Moral codes come from people not gods.



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 





No matter what you say about not believing in this god or his laws, the point is you are going to have to address at some point your statement about a "god that is a non-judgmental force of love". That's the god you are going to have to address.


Why?


You believe in a god that is a non-judgmental unifying force of love. Therefore, YOUR definition of YOUR god implies that morality is IRRELEVANT because YOUR god cannot EVER judge immorality, even rape or slavery.


That's right, I don't believe in a god that is person with opinions on what is right and wrong, good and evil.


Don't throw this back on the God of the Bible, because you reject laws regarding slavery and rape, when your god doesn't even have laws against it in the first place. Your god doesn't even have punishment, just the old "karma" you get what's coming to you...however even karma goes AGAINST non-judgmental love.


The Biblical god is a creation in and of itself. I don't believe in the existence of this god of the Bible. I don't know what your definition of karma is, but i'm pretty sure I'm going to disagree with it too.


Even Jesus in our Bible said "you reap what you sow",


So what?


and yet you reject the God of Jesus, because He said there was a punishment. How strange is that? If karma gets you, then apparently there is a moral code outside of the human experience, that our Jesus said there is. So which is it, non-judgmental love or a moral code dictated by a spiritual force?


I don't believe that that the god of Jesus was the same god as depicted in the OT.


If there is a moral code, then your god doesn't exist.


That makes no sense. Moral codes come from people not gods.



Isn't karma an idea that comes from people also?

And you are going to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing, it has nothing to do with whether I am right or wrong about it, which I am right because you are the one who brought it up, made up your own definition of God (which I would remind you, you are just a person also).

So your ideas of moral code do not arise from karma (because that's a human idea), they come from you (also a human idea).

And there is no moral code. So then tell me again, how is slavery wrong?

Because according to your on moral code it is wrong? Where does your moral code arise from? It can't come from karma, because that's a human idea.

If you say it is wrong, then prove to me where it is wrong.



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