China Doesn't Back Russia's Invasion Of Crimea — And That's A Big Problem For Putin Read more:

peck420

rigel4
Come back and try again after you have read and "Digested" the entire article.
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What is there to digest? An opinion piece about China that doesn't come from China?

China is going to do what best helps China. The bad news about that, is that China is just as interested in dismantling NATO as she is in dismantling Russia.

Sorry but China won't do #

China will implode

Simply because the west knows of China's Intensions and regional aggression, and it's western investment that give rise to China

That's all being re diverted to other emerging markets in the region

Which is why China isn't stupid enough to back Russia who influenced China's ambitions in the first place

And now they're both #

Viking9019
They've changed their tune as i could of sworn that they DID agree with Putin's action not even a month ago.

You probably read that on ATS from the anti west brigade or infowars.com

At least you've learnt your lesson now, don't listen to crazy people who make things up based on lies and speculation and out of hatred

If you believe China doesn't support Russia you are being suckered. You can't believe or trust politicians on any side of this mess, instead you simply have to follow the money. Even if China say they don't support Russia they are on the verge of a "Holy Grail" energy deal that that will flow rivers of oil and gas into China from Russia. If you aren't aware of that development you aren't really following financial news. Also there is the recent investment in Russia's $10bn state-backed Direct Investment Fund.

According to the Wall Street Journal:

online.wsj.com...

European leaders are seizing on Chinese President Xi Jinping's inaugural trip to Europe to enlist his support over the crisis in Ukraine, but so far the Chinese leader has given no sign the diplomacy will succeed in driving a wedge between China and its strategic partner Russia.

China might not be officially supporting Russia but there is no world in which they side AGAINST Russia. That in itself is a political victory for Putin. If you are interpreting "no support" for "opposition" then you really don't understand the historical and geopolitical undercurrents in east Asia.

So as for "China Doesn't Back Russia's Invasion (lol) Of Crimea" - That's NOT a big problem for Putin. The lack of red light is actually a green light from a Chinese perspective and Russian interpretation. If you don't think this is going to escalate then you are going to suprised at what happens next. The ball is in Ukraine's court and if they push for NATO membership, Russia will invade. If the neo-nazi Right Sector continue to riot with no response from Ukraine's government, Russia will invade. Do you think 100,000 troops on Ukraine's border are just enjoying a spring picnic? And do you think they'd really be there if China didn't really support Russia?

If the west escalates this situation then the West is making China choose Russia or the West. If that happens then this is WW3 because China MUST choose Russia from a geopolitical standpoint which will ruin it economically. This will be financial armageddon as an economical meltdown in China means meltdown in the west. China can never choose the West militarily over Russia as it will know it is next. So if forced into that corner it's lights out as China closes the Bamboo Curtain and shuts off all trade and sells all US paper. The result will be chaos in the US and China and China will have to mobilise its armed forces heavily to quell social unrest and unify the country with military conquest against the West.

However, as another poster pointed out China is willing to stay on the sidelines for as long as possible and see how this plays out. It will stay there when/if Russia takes Southern Ukraine and will only act if Russia is threatened.

These are the stakes and the US was crazy to instigate the problems in the Ukraine.

neo96
reply to post by Phage

 

China did not vote in support of the Crimean referendum, they did not support Russia's position. They are not backing Russia in Ukraine. Nor have they, from the beginning of the crisis. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well China had no problems backing Russias play in Syria or other 'plays' around the globe.

As someone said it is not what China says, but what they do.

edit on 28-3-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

And sometimes, more importantly, it's what they DON'T do. Like NOT voting against Russia and NOT joining in imposing sanctions.

TritonTaranis

Bassago
reply to post by rigel4

 

Putin is entirely Isolated.

Putin is also hopelessly out maneuvered by the West and China.

This does not appear to be the case from what I've been reading. Talk and speculation are one thing but look at the financials. China is playing the middle ground.

Really?

Why would China want a strong Russia as a neighbour ?

At the same time be biting the hand that feeds them?

Just not logical is it?

Sure talk and speculation is all I've seen regarding China position but the fact is China has turned it's back on Russia on many occasions concerning Ukraine, and the only support Russia is getting is coming from Syria, Iran & North Korea

Not a good look really is it?

edit on 28-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

This is not about a strong Russia - strawman much? Both Russia and China knows the Western gameplan for global hegemony. China is willing to stay neutral for as long as it's worth it to China. When its territorial integrity is jeopardised then it's no longer worth it. China needs Russia as an independent state no matter how strong it is. If Russia falls China is next so we can argue all we want about what the Chinese abstentions mean but when it comes to making a military choice it will side with Russia.

reply to post by Logman

If Russia falls China is next so we can argue all we want about what the Chinese abstentions mean but when it comes to making a military choice it will side with Russia.

What does any of this have to do with Russia falling? How is Russia going to fall? Who is going to make it fall?
China could have sided with Russia. It hasn't. It didn't. It turned its back on Russia. It did not recognize the Crimean referendum.

Logman
If you believe China doesn't support Russia you are being suckered. You can't believe or trust politicians on any side of this mess, instead you simply have to follow the money. Even if China say they don't support Russia they are on the verge of a "Holy Grail" energy deal that that will flow rivers of oil and gas into China from Russia. If you aren't aware of that development you aren't really following financial news. Also there is the recent investment in Russia's $10bn state-backed Direct Investment Fund.

According to the Wall Street Journal:

online.wsj.com...

European leaders are seizing on Chinese President Xi Jinping's inaugural trip to Europe to enlist his support over the crisis in Ukraine, but so far the Chinese leader has given no sign the diplomacy will succeed in driving a wedge between China and its strategic partner Russia.

China might not be officially supporting Russia but there is no world in which they side AGAINST Russia. That in itself is a political victory for Putin. If you are interpreting "no support" for "opposition" then you really don't under the historical and geopolitical undercurrents in east Asia.

Sure I don't dispute the fact that China isn't trying to tear down the west with Russia and rival it, it was the soviets who give birth to there communists political party and rulers

But it was the west that invested and made china the rising power it is today, and the west can and will and already has began to take that all away because of its obvious intentions ... Why give so,some how hates you a war chest to kill you with? It's just not logical or very clever

China only cares about itself, to Russia, china will not drag her arse into a fight with Russia and NATO, China has nothing to offer NATO "yet" anyway China has a very large standing army but lacks hardware, troops count for # these days and if the Korean War is anything to go by I doubt they'll be rushing to throw troops at allied positions any time soon since Korea lost 40% of it population last time they tried it

NATO and her allies could very easily strangle China via naval blockades in the South China Sea, Yellow Sea, & Pacific Ocean,

China would not survive trying to oil war industry/effort and no army has ever won anything being surrounded understu stained attack while her enemies hold all the resources on the world, not to mention being technologically inferior

And this China and Russia holy grail deal is the biggest laugh of them all.. It would only be a deal considering the western world still invests in china forcing the demand for this " holy grail" deal

You think that's going to happen?

This deal is but a dream... The only reason china would need to fuel it's industries would be from western demand and she won't be getting western demand, so the deal is Kaput dead in the water bye bye never going to happen, certainly not on on the scale people would like it to be, china is slumping, china is slowing down, china has debt coming out of her ears and that's because the investors have left town

The fact is... The west is holding ALL the cards, and they don't take lightly to threats... all Russia and China can really do is crash the worlds economy, giving rise to a new currency which Russia and China will again have to deal with and with an even more exposed red arse

Phage
reply to post by Logman

 

If Russia falls China is next so we can argue all we want about what the Chinese abstentions mean but when it comes to making a military choice it will side with Russia.

What does any of this have to do with Russia falling? How is Russia going to fall? Who is going to make it fall?
China could have sided with Russia. It hasn't. It didn't. It turned its back on Russia. It did not recognize the Crimean referendum.

edit on 3/28/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Because Russia has a resources based economy and relies on exporting to Europe to stay afloat

The EU will drop this dependancy on Russia's overpriced gas oil and coal in favour of Qatar or the US /other

If China sided with Russia she Russia the risk of biting the hand that feeds her,

So the only sense I can see in China abstained on the referendum and staying out of this is because she knows she'll get the gas AND customers

But this won't happened as I'm sure should the gas deal go ahead like has already begun to happen.. western investment will go elsewhere to produce its cheap goods rendering g the holy grail deal more like a dirty 18th century pottery deal

The relationship between Russia and China have always been more about necessity than anything else.

Russia was looking for support from China to justify, and strengthen their argument...it was necessary for them. China on the other hand, abstained from voting because, perhaps, they understood that they would have been disadvantaged if they had supported Russia...

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but we do know that Russia is in a sticky position..

You are making me lol hard.

China is supporting Russia, dont be fooled. Just like they said, China didnt condemn the referendum, and didnt condemn Russia.
This is nothing more than Western MSM Hype. Propaganda to make people think, "we are winning the war!". When the fact is they messed it up in Ukraine, they tried to steal the pie, but Putin took a bite before they took it from him. Simply because he can, who's going to tell Russia what to do? The frail EU?
If the US annexed a part of Mexico, who would dare to take action against it? seriously.

China not openly supporting the referendum doesnt mean anything really. Ill be surprised, when they actually do something that goes against Russians interests. Politicians talk, thats what they do, they say what they are supposed to, and supporting the annexation of Crimea looks bad, yet China and Russia are still together in this.

rigel4

andy1972
What China says, and what China does are two completely different things.

"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." - Sun Tzu

Have you read the article .. or are you just throwing
in a Proverb or two ?

Yes , read the article thanks. And i don't care what "Business insider" say's. China has it's own agenda and knows how to be flexible to keep everyone moderatly happy for the moment, until the moment comes to strike if it has to.

Thats why it has it's policy of "Non-interference in any countries internal affairs", which America would do well to learn.

The USA and Russia are slowly but surely killing themselves with their own foreign and domestic policies, China has to just sit back and eat popcorn.

To end with another "proverb" - "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. The essential causes of Rome’s decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars"...sound familiar ??

rigel4

China actually said nothing of the sort.

China actually 'said' nothing of the sort in the OP either, did they?

Logman
If you believe China doesn't support Russia you are being suckered. You can't believe or trust politicians on any side of this mess, instead you simply have to follow the money. Even if China say they don't support Russia they are on the verge of a "Holy Grail" energy deal that that will flow rivers of oil and gas into China from Russia. If you aren't aware of that development you aren't really following financial news. Also there is the recent investment in Russia's $10bn state-backed Direct Investment Fund.

Why does China need energy ? Answer : to support its manufacturing industry.
Who does China manufacture goods for ? Answer : predominantly the west (although its domestic market is growing fast)
Where does China gets it money to buy Russian energy ? Answer : the west.
Are there alternate sources of energy than Russia ? Answer : yes (but not as convenient).

Without a friendly trading West China does not need the unfriendly Russian energy.

Oh hang on I'm getting deja vu I'm sure I stated this on a.n.other "oh my god China is buying Russian energy we are all doomed to penury" thread. And that was BEFORE the Chinese disagreed with Putin!

Glad to see most people are denying this western propaganda ignorance.

Logman
Glad to see most people are denying this western propaganda ignorance.

The Ignorant ones like yourself are the same ones that are attending the Putin Parties.


Move along

Aww bless

The Nazi ATS party pushing for a Russian speaking unification are up set there close friend China ditched on them

andy1972
What China says, and what China does are two completely different things.

"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." - Sun Tzu

amen! PASS THE BUILLETS, we may need them.

yorkshirelad

Logman
If you believe China doesn't support Russia you are being suckered. You can't believe or trust politicians on any side of this mess, instead you simply have to follow the money. Even if China say they don't support Russia they are on the verge of a "Holy Grail" energy deal that that will flow rivers of oil and gas into China from Russia. If you aren't aware of that development you aren't really following financial news. Also there is the recent investment in Russia's $10bn state-backed Direct Investment Fund.

Why does China need energy ? Answer : to support its manufacturing industry.
Who does China manufacture goods for ? Answer : predominantly the west (although its domestic market is growing fast)
Where does China gets it money to buy Russian energy ? Answer : the west.
Are there alternate sources of energy than Russia ? Answer : yes (but not as convenient).

Without a friendly trading West China does not need the unfriendly Russian energy.

Oh hang on I'm getting deja vu I'm sure I stated this on a.n.other "oh my god China is buying Russian energy we are all doomed to penury" thread. And that was BEFORE the Chinese disagreed with Putin!

If the west ditches China even by half then prices of its good will atleast double and cause severe depression in the western economies.

Is that enough to give you sweet dreams or need some more 'real world' insertions?

payta
You are making me lol hard.

China is supporting Russia, dont be fooled. Just like they said, China didnt condemn the referendum, and didnt condemn Russia.
This is nothing more than Western MSM Hype. Propaganda to make people think, "we are winning the war!". When the fact is they messed it up in Ukraine, they tried to steal the pie, but Putin took a bite before they took it from him. Simply because he can, who's going to tell Russia what to do? The frail EU?
If the US annexed a part of Mexico, who would dare to take action against it? seriously.

China not openly supporting the referendum doesnt mean anything really. Ill be surprised, when they actually do something that goes against Russians interests. Politicians talk, thats what they do, they say what they are supposed to, and supporting the annexation of Crimea looks bad, yet China and Russia are still together in this.

edit on 29-3-2014 by payta because: (no reason given)

I would advise reading up a little about recent history, about Putin's rise to power, his start in the KGB, and about how life really is under his rule. In Russia any dissent of Putin entitles you to 5 years in the Gulag or worse. If you attempt to cross his path politically you are as good as dead, poisoned, or set up with false charges and shipped off to a Siberian prison. That's the cold hard reality in Russia. Putin has always had his eyes set on Ukraine, for him it is a matter of raw power. HIs time is coming to an end, he has made too many people in high places fearful of him. In the meantime Putin's thinking is not based in global reality, it is ONLY based on his wishes for the mudderland, Russia. He cares nothing about Any other country but Russia and his "goals" for Russia.

I'm not surprised that China isn't supporting him in this brazen takeover of Crimea and Putin's rush into Ukraine. Looking back over history everyone can see it for what it really is. The only problem is that the world mistakenly thought Putin wanted to be a player on the world stage under the same rules as everyone else. We let our guard down. Surprise!! Putin has shown his hand, and it's a flop.
It never ceases to surprise me, the number of english-speaking Russian boot-lickers you can find eager to take Putin's side when they REALLY know nothing about the situation.