Gay people can get married in the UK at midnight tonight :D

reply to post by 999zxcv

I am not bothered by gay people at all live and let live i say as long as they do not shove my face in it

Ah.

I believe that is one of the prerequisites for accepting gay people.

I don't think your avatar name was mentioned but I'm pretty sure it was you they had in mind.

DarknStormy
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

I don't defend the Old Testament because that is exactly what the Jews live by today. And seeing what they have done over the last 65 years they are a disgrace to humanity. The New Testament is a rendering of the Old and because of that, the Old Testament is merely a reference point for the New. I'm not a Jew so I do not care about the Old Testament.

????? But you based your statement saying that you disapproved of Gay Marriage by saying that the Bible (ie: the Old Testament) is against it! You're not making any sense!
And by the way - your comment about the Jews is repulsive.

AngryCymraeg

DarknStormy
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

I don't defend the Old Testament because that is exactly what the Jews live by today. And seeing what they have done over the last 65 years they are a disgrace to humanity. The New Testament is a rendering of the Old and because of that, the Old Testament is merely a reference point for the New. I'm not a Jew so I do not care about the Old Testament.

????? But you based your statement saying that you disapproved of Gay Marriage by saying that the Bible (ie: the Old Testament) is against it! You're not making any sense!
And by the way - your comment about the Jews is repulsive.

The New Testament is what I was speaking about and it isn't against gay marriage, it's against homosexuality all together.

As for the Jews, look up Benjamin Freedman, A Jew telling things how they really are.. Read his book Facts are Facts.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Ah, now we get to the nitty-gritty (literally). If the poster doesn't care about the old testament then you're right, where does the biblical word against homosexuals come from?? Not from Jesus, who said do unto udders. Or from Paul, who just took out his anger on women. A very good point.

Gimmee that old time religion.

CJCrawley
reply to post by 999zxcv

 

I am not bothered by gay people at all live and let live i say as long as they do not shove my face in it

Ah.

I believe that is one of the prerequisites for accepting gay people.

I don't think your avatar name was mentioned but I'm pretty sure it was you they had in mind.

ok you have me confused now who is the THEY that cannot accept a joke avatar -you have me worried

reply to post by Bone75

Bone75
What equal rights are you referring to that weren't already available to him through a civil partnership?

In the US, there are over 1000 marriage rights that Civil Unions don't grant. I'm guessing it's similar in the UK.

Same Sex Marriage vs Civil Union Rights

Great to hear the UK is progressing!

DarknStormy
The New Testament is what I was speaking about and it isn't against gay marriage, it's against homosexuality all together.

As for the Jews, look up Benjamin Freedman, A Jew telling things how they really are.. Read his book Facts are Facts.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry, but as far as I know Jesus had nowt to say about homosexuality. Not a single word.
And as for Benjamin Freedman, what do the frenzied whitterings of a man who was described as being a bit of a nutcase have anything to do with this?

AngryCymraeg

DarknStormy
The New Testament is what I was speaking about and it isn't against gay marriage, it's against homosexuality all together.

As for the Jews, look up Benjamin Freedman, A Jew telling things how they really are.. Read his book Facts are Facts.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry, but as far as I know Jesus had nowt to say about homosexuality. Not a single word.

The commandments came through the apostles and that is pretty much from the horses mouth. You can believe what you choose but it is written in there and it's likely in there for a reason.

AngryCymraeg
And as for Benjamin Freedman, what do the frenzied whitterings of a man who was described as being a bit of a nutcase have anything to do with this?

Btw, Everything that the above bloke speaks about can be verified by many sources and many of the things that he talks about are historical facts, not conspiracies, facts so believe what you want.

DarknStormy
The commandments came through the apostles and that is pretty much from the horses mouth. You can believe what you choose but it is written in there and it's likely in there for a reason.

Show me a single instance where one of those apostles quotes Jesus as condemning homosexuality. A single word.

DarknStormy

AngryCymraeg

DarknStormy
The New Testament is what I was speaking about and it isn't against gay marriage, it's against homosexuality all together.

As for the Jews, look up Benjamin Freedman, A Jew telling things how they really are.. Read his book Facts are Facts.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry, but as far as I know Jesus had nowt to say about homosexuality. Not a single word.

The commandments came through the apostles and that is pretty much from the horses mouth. You can believe what you choose but it is written in there and it's likely in there for a reason.

The reason probably is that a gay guy or two hit on one of the up-tight apostles and he didn't like it.

AngryCymraeg

DarknStormy
The commandments came through the apostles and that is pretty much from the horses mouth. You can believe what you choose but it is written in there and it's likely in there for a reason.

Show me a single instance where one of those apostles quotes Jesus as condemning homosexuality. A single word.

Who are you to demand proof from the bible? It's based around faith and whether Jesus said it or not, references to Homosexuality, sexual immorality are littered through the New Testament even to the point it says this

For this reason God gave them up to VILE passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lusts for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

And then it goes on further

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do the things which are not fitting; Romans 1:26,28

So just because Jesus didn't mention it directly doesn't mean it wasn't part of the teaching because remember, the New Testament is a rendering of the Old Testament and even if the Old does condemn homosexuality and Jesus made it Lawful then maybe the Jews were right that he wasn't the Messiah because that would go against the original teachings of the Torah.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg

Jesus had nowt to say about homosexuality

He didn't mention he had hairy armpits either, though he probably did.

Jesus, as depicted in the gospels, had disappointingly little to say about all kinds of things.

However, I don't imagine that gay marriage would have figured too highly in his sermons-to-do list (to say nothing of the concept of anal intercourse between men).

While you and I may be advocates of social progress, great spiritual teachers tend to have different priorities.

DarknStormy
Who are you to demand proof from the bible? It's based around faith and whether Jesus said it or not, references to Homosexuality, sexual immorality are littered through the New Testament even to the point it says this

For this reason God gave them up to VILE passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lusts for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

And then it goes on further

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do the things which are not fitting; Romans 1:26,28

So just because Jesus didn't mention it directly doesn't mean it wasn't part of the teaching because remember, the New Testament is a rendering of the Old Testament and even if the Old does condemn homosexuality and Jesus made it Lawful then maybe the Jews were right that he wasn't the Messiah because that would go against the original teachings of the Torah.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)

This the reason why I'm an atheist. Religion is the enemy of proof, because proof always undermines religion. By your own words you admit that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. So you then bring in inference and interpretation and all the doctrinal sleight of hand that blurs things - and which is open to manipulation.
On this thread you rejected the Old Testament and said that you only wanted to obey the New Testament. And now you're claiming that the Old Testament has credence via the New Testament? Sorry, but are you a contortionist by trade?

CJCrawley

Jesus, as depicted in the gospels, had disappointingly little to say about all kinds of things.

That's because he already said it all when he said to love your neighbor (and treat them how you would like to be treated), and love your God. It really is that simple, and nothing more needs to be said. All the other crap doesn't matter.

reply to post by DarknStormy

The commandments came through the apostles and that is pretty much from the horses mouth.

I'm afraid that's your credibility gone.
You don't seem to understand some of the most basic fundamentals of the Christian religion.
Doesn't Moses on Mount Sinai ring any bells?
You know, in The Book of Exodus when Moses leads the chosen people out of slavery, through the wilderness to The Promised Land.
God dictates The Ten Commandments directly to Moses who etched them on tablets of stone.

The Apostles only mention The Ten Commandments in reference to their alleged divine nature as being the actual word of God, they certainly aren't attributable in any shape or form to any of The Apostles.

As for the word of The Apostles being 'pretty much from the horses mouth' - are you sure?
Bear in mind only one of the accepted Gospels is accepted to be a first hand account by an Apostle and someone who actually met Jesus. The others are at least second or third hand accounts - in most likelihood even more removed than that.
And you do know that there are actually other Gospel accounts of Jesus's life, some even of other Apostles, none of which made it into The Bible.
Why?
Because they don't fit in with the Pauline version of events and dogmatic creed.

You can believe what you choose but it is written in there and it's likely in there for a reason.

Yes, because it fit in with the programme - control of the masses through fear and ignorance.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Through the Old Testament you have the Noachide Laws and they state
1) Do not deny God
2) Do not Blaspheme God
3) Do not Murder
4) Do not engage in incestuous, Adulterous or Homosexual relationships
5) Do not steal
6) Do not eat of a live animal
7) Establish courts/legal Systems to ensure law obedience.

These are the minimal moral duties required by man when observing the Bible.

Now every single one of those is applicable in the New Testament also so when I say that I do not observe the Old Testament, it doesn't mean I regard it as bs, I just believe that those laws and commandments were for the people of that time and because the Messiah apparently has NOT returned yet, the current commandments are in place until he does return. So when the New Testament shouts out Commandments of the Lord (Jesus), The Royal law (of Jesus) and what ever else it teaches they shouldn't be taken lightly if you are a true Christian. No-one on this website made up the Biblical laws and though I really don't care about gay marriage personally (It's the least of my troubles), The bible does condemn that action regardless of how anyone wants to defend it.

With that also, am I going to stop Gay marriage going ahead? Of course not but I will certainly stand up for something regardless of whether you or anyone calls me a bigot, a homophobe or anything else. I don't care. Because I refuse to believe in something that I do not agree with and I guess the same can be said for others on this thread when it comes to religion. I have a different view.. Big deal.

Too finish off, it's not just the Homosexuality thing either, there are many different issues that are arising which make me think that this Bible has something too it. But that's for another thread. Just remember there is no partiality with God and everyone will be repaid for their actions.

Freeborn
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

I'm afraid that's your credibility gone.
You don't seem to understand some of the most basic fundamentals of the Christian religion.
Doesn't Moses on Mount Sinai ring any bells?
You know, in The Book of Exodus when Moses leads the chosen people out of slavery, through the wilderness to The Promised Land.
God dictates The Ten Commandments directly to Moses who etched them on tablets of stone.

Yes and as I said in the last post, those were applicable to their time.. Of course they wouldn't stay that way and as time passed, they were rendered and more were added through Jesus and the Apostles.

The Apostles only mention The Ten Commandments in reference to their alleged divine nature as being the actual word of God, they certainly aren't attributable in any shape or form to any of The Apostles.

The Apostles are very descriptive of what is required of a "Good Christian" and what the traits of a "Bad Christian" are. And that those commandments from the Lord being Jesus are not meant to be broken at all. You break one and you may as well break them all.

As for the word of The Apostles being 'pretty much from the horses mouth' - are you sure?
Bear in mind only one of the accepted Gospels is accepted to be a first hand account by an Apostle and someone who actually met Jesus. The others are at least second or third hand accounts - in most likelihood even more removed than that.
And you do know that there are actually other Gospel accounts of Jesus's life, some even of other Apostles, none of which made it into The Bible.
Why?
Because they don't fit in with the Pauline version of events and dogmatic creed.

So they must be fake? I see now.

Yes, because it fit in with the programme - control of the masses through fear and ignorance.

Sure your not speaking about democracy there?

DarknStormy
Sure your not speaking about democracy there?

Can I ask why you seem to prefer religion to democracy?

AngryCymraeg

DarknStormy
Sure your not speaking about democracy there?

Can I ask why you seem to prefer religion to democracy?

Look at the standards in religion compared to the progressive failure of Democracy. Democracy isn't going anywhere. All it will be is a continuing failure.