West Texas Spanloader

there is something bugging me for a long time.

ADVENT engine could reach supersonic speeds?.

impressive shape.



but I love this this one baddly...

a reply to: drwire

As long as the air is slowed enough to be compressed as it goes through the engine there's no reason it can't.

a reply to: Zaphod58

SO for a fast moving aircraft utilizing the ADVENT engine buried in the body with "S" shaped ducting or something to that effect would be advantageous to the ADVENT if you intended to travel at low mach numbers?

a reply to: drwire

Hey drwire,

Question for you. Whats the third bird in the pictures you posted. Looks like a depiction of the F-121.

www.bing.com... 015757319409384&thid=JN.z7E1OjhjSCQJxiLKE7HoZw&ajaxhist=0

Whats it supposed to be? Just curious. Looks like something based off of the kingfish designs.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: drwire

Hey drwire,

Question for you. Whats the third bird in the pictures you posted. Looks like a depiction of the F-121.

www.bing.com... 015757319409384&thid=JN.z7E1OjhjSCQJxiLKE7HoZw&ajaxhist=0

Whats it supposed to be? Just curious. Looks like something based off of the kingfish designs.

It is an image that appears related to the successor of SR-71 and the B-2, but I never could find a higher resolution copy. The latter has always caught my attention.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

ADVENT will give a big advantage. It will allow for increased range on ingress and egress by opening up the third bypass channel. Then when they're getting to the target area, they can close the bypass and add a little extra speed for the target run.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BASSPLYR

ADVENT will give a big advantage. It will allow for increased range on ingress and egress by opening up the third bypass channel. Then when they're getting to the target area, they can close the bypass and add a little extra speed for the target run.

just the same I was thinking. That may be the reason that LM/Boeing may be inclined to a more targeted at supersonic speeds instead of a flying wing design.

Yeah, one of the other photos of the model "F-121" looks almost like the render that drwire linked - it's a rear 3/4 shot, like the render perspective. It does have the intakes on the bottom which I would guess is out on the lrs-b which neither of you were implying.

I get what your saying about the two contenders: NG=cranked kite (Super Bowl commercial) uber B-2 since tech has advanced so much. LM/Boeing=bitchin' B-1 ish, appears slightly more conventional (but isn't). Would love to see them both in the end but think the looser could end up black with more $'s thrown at it for extra goodies. Would the RFP allow them to be that different if they were trying to reach the same requirements or would one team say screw the RFP, we need a home-run?

Kingfish huh? Didn't Mr. Beeblebrox randomly throw out a one liner months ago about how he "always liked the design of the Kingfish". Can't recall the thread, may have been this one or something about the Green Lady (I like "Neverbeast" better, 'cause we're never going to see it and I saw a green trail on my TV recently that had something to do with that name). His comment was slightly out of context at the time. I don't know that anyone commented or questioned him, it was just a throw away line.

At a different time it was also mentioned that one company had come up with the idea of using one fuselage with different sets of wings for different configurations, I think that was around the time of the Wichita ghost but wasn't specifically referencing that craft. I thought NG cranked kite but could be anyone using that planform - wouldn't be surprised if it was Boeing. Since LRS is a system could one of the contenders be making a huge pitch behind the scenes for multiple craft using the same basic structure and mechanics? Long shot I know.

a reply to: drwire

It's that rendering of the second aircraft, the one that's clearly a YF-23 with two seats and a delta wing, that launched me on the hunch that the YF-23 was to some unknown design/prototype/operational SR-71/EF-111 replacement what the YF-12 was to the A-12.

I mean, let's look at what we know about the YF-23. It basically was an adaptation of the TACIT BLUE's planform to a maneuverable(ish) supersonic aircraft, with trapezoidal wings, a V-tail, hard chines, and a flat fuselage. It even had the engines exhausting over a deck between the tails. Now we know that the TACIT BLUE was a surveillance platform, not a fighter, so why would NG go with such a design for the YF-23? Especially when you consider just how similar the -23 is to Tacit when the contemporary B-2 shared almost nothing with the TB's design.

This is possibly also where the F-117 companion could come in. People in the know have hinted that A: it wasn't built by Lockheed, and B: it looked nothing like the F-117. Is it that much of a stretch then, to guess that it might have been some sort of "missing link" between the obviously-related TACIT BLUE and YF-23 designs?

But it gets better. Look at the -23's design a little more closely. One of the many reasons why the YF-22 won the contest was concerns about the usability of the respective design's weapons bays. The-22 split it's internal weapons load across two bays, allowing for redundancy in the event of malfunctioning doors, etc. The NG design, on the other hand, consolidated its weapons load in a single, large bay mounted in the centerline of the aircraft just under and behind the cockpit.

Sounds a little unusual for a fighter, now doesn't it...

Can anyone think of a class of aircraft built around large, voluminous bays mounted centerline behind the cockpit? The voices are saying something about "oxes" and "carts" and maybe the occasional "raven".

What's that, you say? The SR-71 and the EF-111 were both retired in the 90's, just as the leader in low-observable technologies was demoing a prototype "fighter" with impressive super cruise abilities, minimal maneuverability, and an even more minimal RCS? That had a "weapons bay" that looked an awful lot like a Q-Bay? That blew away its competition in a fly off in terms of speed, range, RCS, and IR signature before "losing" the competition and disappearing without a whisper? While the company that made it stayed profitable throughout the 90's (so much so that they bought Grumman!) with minimal aircraft to show for it, in the white world at least?

Go figure.

Throw slightly bigger engines/fuel tanks for extended mach 2.0+ performance and a speed-optimized delta wing on a YF-23, add a second cockpit for a radar/camera operator, and bingo! You have the mother of all battlefield surveillance/ECM aircraft, and one that could easily pick up the slack from the SR-71 over all but the most heavily-defended targets due to its stealth.

Am I the only one who sees this?

a reply to: Barnalby
Bassplyr's completely baseless speculation begins below:

Why not take an F-23, notice that it has a decent payload capacity and go lets keep the F-22 for the f-15 replacement. Add slightly bigger engines to the F-23, a second cockpit, spanload her out.

A. F-23 looses to f-22
B. f-111 retires
C. f-117 retires
D. ?????
E. Texas

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I have been thinking much the same thing for a while now..

So, this sunday i was out for a bicycle ride(60 miler) out into sw fresno county. It was one of those fabulous cloudless Cen Cal mornings, when i noticed a con trail distincly differerent from the commercial traffic in the sky at the time.

It came over the sierra from the east, just north of the san joaquin river canyon, turned south for for maybe a 100 miles then back south east over the mountains.
It was making a pretty good pace too, overtaking a couple of other aircraft before turning back over the mountains.

I tried to get some pics but i was looking right into the sun, so they didnt take.

But it sure looked like this,

a reply to: punkinworks10

And not a sound shall be heard by anyone.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Interesting, you said this bird was overtaking a few other birds in the area. Were these other birds like airliners doing about 500-600MPH and when you say overtaking how much so. Like just a little maybe going 600-700 or by a good amount like it was going 700-900. Or was it really overtaking the other aircraft like it was going 900+.

What altitude do you think this bird was flying?

a reply to: Zaphod58

That's the problem with the varsity team the US has assembled lately. Nobodies heard a damned thing lately.

a reply to: Zaphod58

maybe from the chase jets....

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: punkinworks10

Interesting, you said this bird was overtaking a few other birds in the area. Were these other birds like airliners doing about 500-600MPH and when you say overtaking how much so. Like just a little maybe going 600-700 or by a good amount like it was going 700-900. Or was it really overtaking the other aircraft like it was going 900+.

What altitude do you think this bird was flying?

One of the neat things about Central Cal is that nearly every west coast route goes right over us.
So yes, the other air was airliners, there were three on a due south courseand it passed two and caught one before turing back over the mountains.
It was faster but not supersonic, probably just barely.
It would have been just a little lower than the other traffic, which would have all been midsize commercial jets, as i could see it but not an aircraft it was passing, or it was really big and was higher up.
The contrails looked to been made by a pair of paired engines, placed fairly close together.


P.S.
A Buff landed at FYI this morning, but i had my hands full of a delicious gyro and could not get my phone out in time to get a pic as it passed overhead.

a reply to: punkinworks10

"A Buff landed at FYI this morning, but i had my hands full of a delicious gyro and could not get my phone out in time to get a pic as it passed overhead."

Sounds like a family reunion to me. You've seen the LRS-B a few months ago. Check. Saw this little guy a few days ago. Check. A Buff just landed a few days ago. Sounds like they all have something in common.

Also, nothing wrong with putting the delicious gyro first. that's something I would do too.

a reply to: penroc3

What chase planes?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

A good gyro is hard to beat. Sadly the ones here I suspect are made with Steak-Ums I have yet to see the spinning tower of lamb meat in my town.

Anyway -- Wouldn't commercial airline pilots be seeing this bird if it's over taking them?

Is there something in commercial airline pilot training that says, "If you see a plane you don't recognize, don't say anything as it's probably top secret..." ???