That is going to be terrible if that ever comes out. I'm not suprised that it is though. It seems that there is an Anti-Christian movement spreading though the states today.

maybe a movie should be done about the nonexsistence of this movie? make it come out a year month and day later. just for the humor.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
... and reveals the truth, that Jesus never even existed! ... Who would want this? ...

Well let me play devils advocate, heheheheh.

Wanting the truth is certainly a reasonable ideal. And whether Jesus existed or not in no way diminishes the lessons to be learned from the bible or the reality of God, but it would diminish misuse of bible by those that use it to further their own personal agendas in the name of Jesus. If it could be proven that Jesus did not exist, would you prefer that it be kept secret?

It seems to me that is a no win situation for this mythical "NWO" of yours. On one hand you would want to lynch them for crushing the spiritual beliefs of billions and on the other hand you would want to lynch them for not revealing the truth. Your belief in the power of this so called "NWO" appears to be stronger than your belief in the power of God.
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Originally posted by df1
Well let me play devils advocate, heheheheh.

Yeah, you pretty much summed up your position and stance there

I too question the orgins of Jesus, as some research from me earlier, has uncovered that he maybe the Hindu Krishna. However, history is open to interpretation of he that writes it. What matters, is not the existence or origins of Jesus, but the fact that Jesus empowers and gives meaning to billions of people in the world and is the basis of their values. That is why many Christians have faith; they do not claim to have proof, because belief in God and indeed, Jesus, is fidelistic.

To say that Jesus is not important in the bible is pathetically misinformed, for he is the centre of Christianity and widely recognised as the incarnation of the holy spirit or his son. There are billions world over who cherish him.

Now you tell him, what would it be like for them, to have their beliefs and their ideals trashed. Also tell him, what would it do to the little spirituality and morals values we still have in the western world? It would be akin to the cold-bloodness of telling a little child Santa Clause or angels aren't real.

What empowers a human being, is not cold facts, but belief in warmth. We are not machines, that function on logical systems, we are emotional and imaginative beings.

This movie is an insult to billions of people in the world and it threatens to create a lot of unnecessary pandamonium and upset. Further it is blatantly provocative with the symbolic significance of the 666 release. It's disgusting, even as a Non-Christian, I find it disgusting and in poor taste. Again, ask yourself, who would want to do this? I am surprised you would actually support this.

You said it is a no-win situation - you are again pathetically misinformed. As far as I know there is no mass of peoples mobilizing against the Church to bastardize Jesus, other than a handful of miserable satanists, that are too busy cutting their wrists with razors and sleeping in coffins.

You referred to "NWO" as mythical, which only means there should be a movie on this, because as you said, truth is an ideal too, so you should support me in this proposal - And, believe you me, there IS a movement against them.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Make up your mind.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I too question the orgins of Jesus, as some research from me earlier, has uncovered that he maybe the Hindu Krishna.

Is this "NWO" propoganda as you state in the title this thread or is their some basis in it as you are saying now?

Exactly

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Jesus, is fideistic.

Since this is the case, no movie will have any influence on true believers.

Who Died And Made You Boss?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This movie is an insult to billions of people in the world and it threatens to create a lot of unnecessary pandamonium and upset.

What on Gods green earth makes you think that your so freakin smart that you are qualified to make such a decision? Oh yeah I forgot, you have this "Indigo" superiority complex thing going on, in addition to your "NWO" delusions. No actual movie yet exists and you have no apriori knowledge of how people will react to such a movie if it is ever produced, so you have no basis for the above statement. Boy are you full of yourself, "I_Child".
.

Exactly

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Jesus, is fideistic.

Since this is the case, no movie will have any influence on true believers.

That is besides the point. Any "true believer" would reject such propaganda, however that does not mean they will not be affected or insulted by it.

What on Gods green earth makes you think that your so freakin smart that you are qualified to make such a decision? Oh yeah I forgot, you have this "Indigo" superiority complex thing going on, in addition to your "NWO" delusions. No actual movie yet exists and you have no apriori knowledge of how people will react to such a movie if it is ever produced, so you have no basis for the above statement. Boy are you full of yourself, "I_Child".

I am sorry that you don't have common sense. It is fairly obvious when something so inflammatory is released dealing on such sensitive matters, that has billions of people connected to it, that it would cause rifts, controversy and problems. One does not need prescient information to make such a deduction. I think you would do well, to actually educate yourself about the recent Passion of the Christ, and the subsequent religious uproar labeling it anti-semitic, which in my opinion was not justifed and just intolerant thinkiing.

What do you think this is going to do, where it is provocativly decrying Christ and representing itself with satanic symbolism. Yeah, that should do well in a time of war.

Jesus, there is no hope. I won't even bother.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Now you tell him, what would it be like for them, to have their beliefs and their ideals trashed. Also tell him, what would it do to the little spirituality and morals values we still have in the western world? It would be akin to the cold-bloodness of telling a little child Santa Clause or angels aren't real.

This movie is an insult to billions of people in the world and it threatens to create a lot of unnecessary pandamonium and upset. Further it is blatantly provocative with the symbolic significance of the 666 release. It's disgusting, even as a Non-Christian, I find it disgusting and in poor taste. Again, ask yourself, who would want to do this? I am surprised you would actually support this.



[edit on 25-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

When you posed the question of the Christians having their belief system walked all over, I had two reactions. Initially, the vengeful side of me said something along the lines of "it's about f***in' time", since my beliefs have been kicked around since the inception of the church as an arm of Christianity. Then, my reasoning and logic kicked in, and I say it's not right to trample the belief system of anyone, even if for almost two millenia people like me were stoned for being sinners, burned for being heretics, and slaughtered for not following the Bible.

However, I see this film, if it even does exist, not necessarily as propaganda slandering the Christians of the world, but as anti-propaganda to the fiction books in the Left Behind series and the films with Kirk Cameron in them, which slander non-Christians like nobody's business.

If this movie does exist, and is released, we piss off two and a half billion Christians. If the movie does exist and doesn't release, we have spared the feelings of two and a half billion Christians and further spread resentment against organized religion for rising up and dominating the entertainment industry when several films touting Christianity as the only way (which could also be labeled ad propaganda) have made it into distribution. If the movie doesn't exist (this is the first I've heard of it, and I tend to keep up on these things) then I've wasted a lot of time on speculation, and am going to do a bit more of it.

At any rate, even if this film comes out and it does appear slanderous to the Christian population of the world, it is still for entertainment purposes. Even if it were made by satanics trying to shake the foundations of the church as an entity, it is still for entertainment. Hell, assuming the movie is truly nothing more than a propaganda film against Christianity, it's not going to change much. The Left Behind books I mentioned earlier may have been written as entertainment, or to scare people into converting to Christianity, but at any rate, they are still considered entertainment.

As for offending a group of people, almost every movie does that. Star Wars I offended people because Anakin Skywlaker was born of the Force rather than through intercourse. Holy Grail pissed veterans off because of the black knight's amputations. Gone with the Wind offended people because the dude said 'damn'. The entertainment industry as a whole can be found offensive on some ground for almost any group of people. Christians were offended by the Harry Potter books because they taught sorcery and witchcraft rather than Christian values. Magazines showing women with cleavage showing or men with their shirts off are deemed offensive by anyone with children. TV shows with violence, crime, drug use, nudity/sexuality, political views, and profanity (even if that is how life works) are deemed offensive by half the people who own a TV set.

I guess the thing is though, is that this is a movie, and since it is not a documentary film, it is designed for entertainment. If you see it as slanderous, and the film ever does make it out, protest it, boycott it, ask that your local theater doesn't show it.

As for it being NWO propaganda, I can't divulge too deeply into that realm, because I believe it is the goal of the NWO to control people THROUGH organized religion rather than robbing people of religion to control them.

Sorry for the rant.

As for it being NWO propaganda, I can't divulge too deeply into that realm, because I believe it is the goal of the NWO to control people THROUGH organized religion rather than robbing people of religion to control them.

Yes, it uses religion to control people. However, the NWO drivers themselves are based on satanical cults. What is essentially happening, the NWO is laying the foundations for an Anti-Christ religion in these times, where a lot of satanic symbolism is being incorporated into peoples lives and a lot of satanic ideology like sex, immorality, violence is becoming the cultural norm. Hence, it becomes much more easier for the NWO to push it's agenda and declare itself in a society that has lost touch with it's ideals and values. This is essentially what is happening, and has been going on for a long time, and this movie has to be the most explicit and provocative sign yet.

Further, movies are not just entertainment, yes that is true on one level, a very superficial level, but movies also have messages and their content is subconsciously imprinted in our minds. They can bring great change in society and it's belief systems, this is why they have been the tool of choice for many dictators and propogandizers. I know how influential movies can be, because I am a filmmaker myself.


[edit on 26-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

As for it being NWO propaganda, I can't divulge too deeply into that realm, because I believe it is the goal of the NWO to control people THROUGH organized religion rather than robbing people of religion to control them.

Yes, it uses religion to control people. However, the NWO drivers themselves are based on satanical cults. What is essentially happening, the NWO is laying the foundations for an Anti-Christ religion in these times, where a lot of satanic symbolism is being incorporated into peoples lives and a lot of satanic ideology like sex, immorality, violence is becoming the cultural norm. Hence, it becomes much more easier for the NWO to push it's agenda and declare itself in a society that has lost touch with it's ideals and values. This is essentially what is happening, and has been going on for a long time, and this movie has to be the most explicit and provocative sign yet.

Further, movies are not just entertainment, yes that is true on one level, a very superficial level, but movies also have messages and their content is subconsciously imprinted in our minds. They can bring great change in society and it's belief systems, this is why they have been the tool of choice for many dictators and propogandizers. I know how influential movies can be, because I am a filmmaker myself.


[edit on 26-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

I am an amateur filmmaker, and while I do hid hidden meanings in my movies, as well as general food for thought, I do not like to think that I could make something with so influential. I suppose that with proper production facilities and a much larger budget than I'm accustomed to, one could make a film that would be tremendously influential.

I did not even mention dictators and others using film as a form of propaganda, and I do apologize for that. In all honesty, I'm surprised there aren't more straight propaganda films in circulation in the US right now, being that we are at war.

re: the movie artistically-
for the director being supposedly so highly reviewed, his trailer sucks. or at least it looks like there was not a lot of time put into it. they could have done so much more.

re: the movie's plot-
i have not heard any credible historian dispute the verity of Christ's life, rather, they dispute His sexuality, promiscuity, etc. so basically, since He can't be proven myth, they try to discredit Him.

re: the bible's pagan links-
those who claim similarities between the bible and other religions would first need to believe the other religion's account to be the more accurate one and also would have to negate the fact that most errors are built on truth. there are general spiritual concepts that are repeated in all major religions. does this mean that they copy eachother? or that they all are touching on the same facts of spiriutal life? if i say that "you will reap what you sow," and someone else believes in karma, then we have arrived at the same spiritual truth but with differences in the fine print. this is not to put one view over another, but to point out that arriving to similar conclusions and having similar modes of operations does not necessarily mean that one religion incorporated another's beliefs. we can show this concept in that multiple cultures made boats from wood without having been influenced by another. obviously this is because no matter where you are on this earth wood floats, is easily available, and is easily manipulated.

re: kirk cameron and the left behind series-
this does not represent the traditionally popular view of christianity. it is the current popular view, but only for the past 50 years or so. the left behind series is based on a chronological interpretation of the revelation which is inherently unbiblical. the closest the bible gets to chronological events is the gospels and the acts. but any good biblical scholar would know that the gospels are not perfectly chronological compared to eachother and that the acts may contain chronological anomalies when compared to some historical accounts (although it is still in dispute as to which account is more accurate). so we are either forced to say that the bible is erred, or that the bible is not necessarily ordered by a calendar. this is further supported in that the books of the bible are not in order of year written. the jewish culture tends to be more eastern and therefore bases their ordering/grouping on subjects rather than timelines. eg. "the proverbs," "the psalms," "kings," "judges," "romans." we do not find such things as "Israel, Year 1202 - 1302." further, the books of the old testament that are spiritually mirrored by the revelation are not themselves chronological.

daved

it simply makes it easier for someone to announce they are God.

The title to the movie sums up the intent- the Beast. IF Christ never existed then would there be a beast?

The entire argument of IF is lost to cries of logic and cries for proof. Faith based religions by definition use the same statements as have existed from man's earliest times. The physical exists for all creation to experience, only the non-physical can be experienced by a creature different.

Every tree, toad, amoeba, rabbit and bird can experience rain, heat, cold and such. Only a creature different, a creature with something no other has is capable of experience of the non-physical. Surely many creatures experience fear and other emotions and they can be argued to be non-physical, but this only minimizes or discounts learning and experience. A tree or vine can be taught to avoid heat or other stimuli much like other creatures can learn fear.

Only humans experience wonder. Not simply curiosity of the new or strange but that special process that has enabled mankind to push past the physical restraints of nature and emotion into the physical and non-physical wolds simply because they are there or could be there.

This is the same wonder that not only allows but strengthens faith based thought. As a small child will wonder and accept that which they do not fully comprehend only mankind has the ability to reach for belief in something so much greater than himself that he may not comprehend. Yet mankind will reach for that which is beyond his attainment. This ability to believe in the unknown and unattainable is proven by mans own history. History proves something exists beyond mans comprehension.

For those that can not or will not believe in something greater than themselves history itself will judge. Much like Columbus discovered, there really was something out there. It was just different from what was expected.

Those that choose (because all have free-will) through any knowledge to not believe in God or Christ will be adjudged by the same history and forces that have always judged mankind. If one chooses to not believe than that choice will provide whatever defense is available at the time of judgment. To believers that time is little feared, to non-believers that time will provide an opportunity for them to join the compost of life.

To believers, the answer to the question: where the difference comes from will be answered. Tto the non-believers it won't matter.