10 Poverty Myths, Busted

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by soficrow

 

it is what our debt system is: the modern fiefdom. We are indentured to our creditors, and we work to pay them off.

just like the tyrannical Lords of old....they just got wise. you're still a slave. just one on the free range, able to have some modicum of freedom of mobility. But as a human, you are required to be accounted for by your government.

ETA my favorite part is, when our Lords wish to communicate with us, we pay for the communication. Either by purchasing radio, cable, internet, printed material. Whatever it is your Lords wish to tell you, you pay for the privilege of hearing.

edit on 3/31/2014 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

Why do you go into debt? That's kind of silly, because the debtor is indeed a slave to the lender.

And yes, why do you communicate with his devices? How about you make your own newspaper and sell it. That way you are in charge and not them. It's like people didn't know how to live way back when Benjamin Franklin wrote Poor Richard's Almanac

Don't buy a phone, instead go and actually talk with someone face to face. Don't text, don't email, just go visit someone and talk in person.

There are always ways around it. So don't buy cable, nothing good is on anyway. Go to the theater, it was good enough for our ancestors. Here is an idea, create your own community theater or forum. That way you can see people once again, real people who walk and talk and want to communicate. Then police your neighborhood. There's always something you can do. We believe we must buy these things because we want to be entertained, but how about we just stop and start investing time with each other, personally?

reply to post by onequestion

Your reply didn't really make so much sense to me, but the reality of everything is that there is no place to go, nothing to be gained which one may keep, and too many who try to explain something that is temporary as if it is permanent.

It has everything to do with what one is led to believe, not to know but only believe.

The entire system, all systems rely on the faith of those who feed/support and when faith is lost the system falls apart.

This is what we are seeing here, a collapse of faith, and I'm all for it because anything faith based is based on something other than logic, reason and truth.

WarminIndy

Why do you go into debt? That's kind of silly, because the debtor is indeed a slave to the lender.

I have zero debt. I own everything I have outright. Except my sons computer. And I may finance 2 new laptops for the wife and I through Dell, since WinXP is sunsetting.

But this isn't about me.

And yes, why do you communicate with his devices? How about you make your own newspaper and sell it. That way you are in charge and not them. It's like people didn't know how to live way back when Benjamin Franklin wrote Poor Richard's Almanac

Don't buy a phone, instead go and actually talk with someone face to face. Don't text, don't email, just go visit someone and talk in person.

There are always ways around it. So don't buy cable, nothing good is on anyway. Go to the theater, it was good enough for our ancestors. Here is an idea, create your own community theater or forum. That way you can see people once again, real people who walk and talk and want to communicate. Then police your neighborhood. There's always something you can do. We believe we must buy these things because we want to be entertained, but how about we just stop and start investing time with each other, personally?

Cutting off ones nose to spite their face is a dumb way to go about life. I use a phone for business. I text my wife and kids. I email thousands of business contacts. Face to face happens when the time is relevant. Because I use it to fit my needs.

How do I avoid the media, though? The culture is inundated with it. You seem to think refusing to participate is a solution. Maybe for a possum, assuming what its hiding from is dumb enough to fall for it. I mean, you could just ignore society as a whole....but even that has risks. I have worked in a psych hospital. People who answer their questions in ways that are not "normal" (i.e., you are ignorant of current events due to not being in touch with the society you are surrounded by) get taken back to a bed. THe entire treatment goal of psychiatry is to "stabilize" you so that you can "reintegrate into society".

reply to post by WarminIndy

.....How about write a novel, anything. Write poetry, write music, do something productive. This endless complaining just means your momma should have kicked you out of the house on those warm days instead of letting you sit all day watching Spongebob Squarepants.

I am a 61 year-old disabled woman who does NOT watch TV much, nor do I troll forums all day, play Xbox or Playstation or waste my time with "social networking." I DO have a garden, with pics posted here: Beautiful Food - the Garden. I also write, paint and all things considered, am exceptionally productive.

I use the Internet to educate myself and contribute to society within my capacities - and I started before the Net was appropriated by corporate interests, when it was free in every sense.

May I suggest that you, too, make an effort to educate yourself? Enough at the very least so you do not make unfounded assumptions about others?




PS. Your "argument" is called an ad hominem or personal attack. It is not just inaccurate, it is irrelevant to the topic.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by soficrow

 

it is what our debt system is: the modern fiefdom. We are indentured to our creditors, and we work to pay them off.

just like the tyrannical Lords of old....they just got wise. you're still a slave. just one on the free range, able to have some modicum of freedom of mobility. But as a human, you are required to be accounted for by your government.

ETA my favorite part is, when our Lords wish to communicate with us, we pay for the communication. Either by purchasing radio, cable, internet, printed material. Whatever it is your Lords wish to tell you, you pay for the privilege of hearing.

You got it.

S&

bigfatfurrytexan

WarminIndy

Why do you go into debt? That's kind of silly, because the debtor is indeed a slave to the lender.

I have zero debt. I own everything I have outright. Except my sons computer. And I may finance 2 new laptops for the wife and I through Dell, since WinXP is sunsetting.

But this isn't about me.

And yes, why do you communicate with his devices? How about you make your own newspaper and sell it. That way you are in charge and not them. It's like people didn't know how to live way back when Benjamin Franklin wrote Poor Richard's Almanac

Don't buy a phone, instead go and actually talk with someone face to face. Don't text, don't email, just go visit someone and talk in person.

There are always ways around it. So don't buy cable, nothing good is on anyway. Go to the theater, it was good enough for our ancestors. Here is an idea, create your own community theater or forum. That way you can see people once again, real people who walk and talk and want to communicate. Then police your neighborhood. There's always something you can do. We believe we must buy these things because we want to be entertained, but how about we just stop and start investing time with each other, personally?

Cutting off ones nose to spite their face is a dumb way to go about life. I use a phone for business. I text my wife and kids. I email thousands of business contacts. Face to face happens when the time is relevant. Because I use it to fit my needs.

How do I avoid the media, though? The culture is inundated with it. You seem to think refusing to participate is a solution. Maybe for a possum, assuming what its hiding from is dumb enough to fall for it. I mean, you could just ignore society as a whole....but even that has risks. I have worked in a psych hospital. People who answer their questions in ways that are not "normal" (i.e., you are ignorant of current events due to not being in touch with the society you are surrounded by) get taken back to a bed. THe entire treatment goal of psychiatry is to "stabilize" you so that you can "reintegrate into society".

All I am hearing are complaints.

So you use a phone for business, and you have thousands of contacts that you must email. Yes, you have used the internet to contact us about a complaint. But do you cruise ATS during business hours? Wouldn't that be stealing time or are you the boss?

If you are the boss, then would you allow your workers to communicate on forums during working hours? I don't know what your business hours are, but it's 9:30 in Texas so I assume that you are sending out those emails to contacts and talking on the phone. I am sure your wife and kids are happy to be relegated to "when it's relevant".

The point is this, complaints without any solutions offered is even contrary to the business model and leadership. When you hear a co-worker complain or if you have been complained to, as a leader, wouldn't you ask "What's the solution?" I offered solutions, you told me why it wouldn't work in your case. For people to throw their hands up in the air and say there are no solutions are worse than the opossum pretending to sleep to avoid reality.

We have a problem in this country, what's the solution?

reply to post by WarminIndy

All I am hearing are complaints.

May I suggest you listen differently? All I'm hearing from you are baseless accusations, and unfounded assumptions.

Seems to me productive discussions are nigh impossible when one party focuses on making personal attacks, as you do.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Yes. I am "the boss". I work 24x7, and choose how I wish to balance my workload with my family. Any comment you make on that dynamic will only result in you looking dumb. Don't be presumptive...i am very good at doing this as evidenced by my lengthy marriage and career success. I am actually doing work while sitting in my dining room having a cup of coffee. I am about to pack up the laptop and head in to the office.

As a businessman, I can tell you that your cliche' about having complaints without solutions is completely bogus. The first step in problem resolution is to identify the problem. Analyze causative factors to determine points of attack.

I have plenty of solutions for you. But as an individual, they get drowned out among the 300mil others in this nation, many of whom have the same ideas.

So, if you can climb down off your soapbox, and put your book of cliche's sayings away for awhile, perhaps we can continue having a conversation?

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner

The entire system, all systems rely on the faith of those who feed/support and when faith is lost the system falls apart.

This is what we are seeing here, a collapse of faith, and I'm all for it because anything faith based is based on something other than logic, reason and truth.

Worth repeating. I like the way you said that.

S&

soficrow
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

All I am hearing are complaints.

May I suggest you listen differently? All I'm hearing from you are baseless accusations, and unfounded assumptions.

Seems to me productive discussions are nigh impossible when one party focuses on making personal attacks, as you do.

Then what's the solution?

So far we have heard it is somebody else's fault for everything wrong, but who takes credit when things go right?

I'm in the same boat as you are. I live that same reality as you do. So don't think I don't know what it's all about. What I have heard from your OP is the same thing I have heard my entire life. If the problems are the same and have gotten worse, then who has offered solutions?

Affirmative Action, that was a solution. Did it work?

Going to college to be educated. Did it work?

Taking out loans for a mortgage. Did it work?

None of these things have worked for many people. The War on Poverty coined by Lyndon Johnson, did it work? NO. Why not? And I will tell you why not, your generation left my generation with the idea that God was dead, that the establishment was to be attacked, that Baby Boomers were born to the Greatest Generation, and then my generation who were given a hope for economic prosperity under Reaganomics were then told we are evil and greedy because we were pushed to achieve something through hard work and effort.

My perspective is coming from Generation X, the generation that not only benefited from you Baby Boomers, but then were told that our benefit wasn't for us, that we were greedy for wanting more out of life. This generation now, those on here complaining the most about the government, are nothing different than Baby Boomers who benefited from the Greatest Generation. They have the same complaints, the same issues, the same problems with the government and nothing changes.

Look at what this generation says, is it different than students at Berkeley? Is it different than Woodstock? Is it different than The Freedom School in Billy Jack? The same problems then are the same problems now and no one is working on the solutions. And yes, productivity was what my generation was told to work toward. The housing market crash? My generation.

Now that my generation has discovered that we had been lied to by your generation, we are tired of the complaints and asking for real solutions. But so far, what are the solutions to the problems? My generation is the bankers and CEOs this generation is complaining about. God is dead, that's what your generation taught us. Entitlement? That is what your generation taught this generation, not my generation. We were made to go to school and become educated, for what?

All the issues listed in your OP, are they suddenly now real problems that never existed before?

You want to know the biggest poverty myth? The government makes people poor.

Now think back to when you were my age, 47, and what you were doing and if these problems existed and whether you talked about them. Did you say it was my generation not being productive enough? We were so productive we had a generation of slackers who blamed the system for giving them whatever they wanted without expectation of productivity. Blame the system, exactly what your generation told us you did. Now it's gone full circle and it's kind of ironic, isn't it?

OWS and Berkeley students, nothing different except that now the system is ok as long as everyone gets an Xbox.

reply to post by WarminIndy


1. recall the military. I am not talking isolationism. I am talking non interventionism. We spend almost 1tril/year on making war. Its bankrupting us.
2. eliminate the IRS in its current form. Eliminate all income taxes. Reduce payroll taxes for the employer. Tax commerce/consumption only. Quit taxing our work. Its our work, and our lives are limited.
3. eliminate the medicare system. eliminate obamacare. with the amount of money we save by not making war, we can then become a nation that values life by providing healthcare. Paid for by our commerce, because we tax only commerce and not income. In a "greater good" society, it would seem we would want to tax the non-human entities so that we can support the human entities.

There you go. 3 solutions right off the top. There are more. Get those 3 in motion, and i'd be happy to share. Good luck.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Mostly I love what you say, other times not so much. What I really do not get is why you promote dismantling the protections we have against an economic system designed to enslave us - but do not advocate dismantling the system itself? Help me out here?

Thanks, sofi

soficrow
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Mostly I love what you say, other times not so much. What I really do not get is why you promote dismantling the protections we have against an economic system designed to enslave us - but do not advocate dismantling the system itself? Help me out here?

Thanks, sofi

Which protections do I want to dismantle?

I want the system dismantled insomuch as I want a tax revolt. If you want my TRUE feelings, I would rather an anarchistic society....but man is not ready for that yet. I think a tax revolt might be a good step, however. In so doing, I want to see the burden of tax payment shifted from The People to commerce. I want to turn the tables on business, and make them start to work for the good of The People. If we are to have these corporate strawmen, then lets leverage them for our benefit.

Now...if you have ideas that would dismantle the very notion of corporations, without destroying the lifeswork of our nations people, I am all ears. You're a smart individual, and I really am interested in what you have to say.

bigfatfurrytexan

....I think a tax revolt might be a good step, however. In so doing, I want to see the burden of tax payment shifted from The People to commerce. I want to turn the tables on business, and make them start to work for the good of The People. If we are to have these corporate strawmen, then lets leverage them for our benefit.

I'm good with that.

Now...if you have ideas that would dismantle the very notion of corporations, without destroying the lifeswork of our nations people, I am all ears.

You're a smart individual, and I really am interested in what you have to say.

Take it back to where the Founding Fathers had it - they knew the dangers intimately and immediately. No more personhood for corporations for starters. Limit their powers. Take back the Federal Reserve.

...and then we'd see outsourcing and off-shoring like never before. I have a headache now. Thanks, bfft. It's probably too late and even though you're right, and humanity is not ready for anarchy, that's likely where we're headed.


Sorry, hate to be a poop but am not available for serious in-depth discussion right now. bbl?

soficrow
Great article and compilation with valid sources.

10 Poverty Myths, Busted

1. Single moms are the problem. Only 9 percent of low-income, urban moms have been single throughout their child's first five years. Thirty-five percent were married to, or in a relationship with, the child's father for that entire time.*

2. Absent dads are the problem. Sixty percent of low-income dads see at least one of their children daily. Another 16 percent see their children weekly.*

3. Black dads are the problem. Among men who don't live with their children, black fathers are more likely than white or Hispanic dads to have a daily presence in their kids' lives.

4. Poor people are lazy. In 2004, there was at least one adult with a job in 60 percent of families on food stamps that had both kids and a nondisabled, working-age adult.

5. If you're not officially poor, you're doing okay. The federal poverty line for a family of two parents and two children in 2012 was $23,283. Basic needs cost at least twice that in 615 of America's cities and regions.

6. Go to college, get out of poverty. In 2012, about 1.1 million people who made less than $25,000 a year, worked full time, and were heads of household had a bachelor's degree.**

7. We're winning the war on poverty. The number of households with children living on less than $2 a day per person has grown 160 percent since 1996, to 1.65 million families in 2011.

8. The days of old ladies eating cat food are over. The share of elderly single women living in extreme poverty jumped 31 percent from 2011 to 2012.
9. The homeless are drunk street people. One in 45 kids in the United States experiences homelessness each year. In New York City alone, 22,000 children are homeless.

10. Handouts are bankrupting us. In 2012, total welfare funding was 0.47 percent of the federal budget.

*Source: Analysis by Dr. Laura Tach at Cornell University.

**Source: Census

I grew up in a poor home under the poverty line. I worked hard and self-funded/loaned my way through college. Now I have a career and a family and am not in poverty. Cycle of poverty busted. You know what it took? Hard work. Dedication. I was there. I know it is possible and what it took. This article is full of crap.

reply to post by soficrow


any time you want/have time to chime in, please do. Always interested in what you have to say.

jjkenobi

soficrow
Great article and compilation with valid sources.

10 Poverty Myths, Busted

1. Single moms are the problem. Only 9 percent of low-income, urban moms have been single throughout their child's first five years. Thirty-five percent were married to, or in a relationship with, the child's father for that entire time.*

2. Absent dads are the problem. Sixty percent of low-income dads see at least one of their children daily. Another 16 percent see their children weekly.*

3. Black dads are the problem. Among men who don't live with their children, black fathers are more likely than white or Hispanic dads to have a daily presence in their kids' lives.

4. Poor people are lazy. In 2004, there was at least one adult with a job in 60 percent of families on food stamps that had both kids and a nondisabled, working-age adult.

5. If you're not officially poor, you're doing okay. The federal poverty line for a family of two parents and two children in 2012 was $23,283. Basic needs cost at least twice that in 615 of America's cities and regions.

6. Go to college, get out of poverty. In 2012, about 1.1 million people who made less than $25,000 a year, worked full time, and were heads of household had a bachelor's degree.**

7. We're winning the war on poverty. The number of households with children living on less than $2 a day per person has grown 160 percent since 1996, to 1.65 million families in 2011.

8. The days of old ladies eating cat food are over. The share of elderly single women living in extreme poverty jumped 31 percent from 2011 to 2012.
9. The homeless are drunk street people. One in 45 kids in the United States experiences homelessness each year. In New York City alone, 22,000 children are homeless.

10. Handouts are bankrupting us. In 2012, total welfare funding was 0.47 percent of the federal budget.

*Source: Analysis by Dr. Laura Tach at Cornell University.

**Source: Census

I grew up in a poor home under the poverty line. I worked hard and self-funded/loaned my way through college. Now I have a career and a family and am not in poverty. Cycle of poverty busted. You know what it took? Hard work. Dedication. I was there. I know it is possible and what it took. This article is full of crap.

The article looks at myths and stats - not individual stories. But. How old are you? When did you start your journey? How many paychecks away from homelessness are you?

reply to post by WarminIndy


Whether or not you go into debt, that the bankers are able to convince some of the people to go into debt, it effects everyone, by driving up prices on everyone.

The housing bubble was a prime example of that. If you wanted to buy a house, you had to compete with the people willing to borrow more money than they could afford to pay back, on the hope that the price of houses would continue to rise.

All humans live in a symbiotic relationship, and the bad decisions of others effect everyone.

The battle of the power hungry verses everyone else has been going in since Sumer was the banner of civilization, and probably before then.

Right now the rich and powerful are winning because they have convinced enough of the people that getting rid of the rules that keep corruption in check was a good idea, because it would create this natural free market system that would naturally regulate itself. This con has been done before and it will be done again.

We are fighting the same battle that all generations have fought, sometimes we win, and sometimes we lose. Except in this day and age the battle is much more a debate than a war, and it is spiritual, we are still looking for purpose in this modern world of technology we have created that has taken us out of the domain of the natural world in which we evolved.

We are still looking for purpose in this new world, where survival is not longer the primary motivator.

reply to post by Daughter2


You must work 60 months in the preceding calendar decade prior to becoming disabled to receive benefits. She worked off and on (while being a mom), but fell short the requirement by three months.

And I absolutely do live in a major metro area (Denver, CO). We make it by going deeper in debt every month (sometimes, only by a little more!), and we dream of owning our own business. I have personally failed at business 4 or 5 separate times. Each attempt was radically different than the one before it and I have added a lot of knowledge to my database as to what not to do as a budding entrepreneur.

I subsist on hugs and kisses from my kids, my dog and my wife, a ridiculously over developed sense of potential awesomeness and a steady diet of home cooked meals. There are days when I feel like I am pushing the proverbial rock back up the same stretch of hill, but mostly -- it's doable. I guess that's a kind of faith, right?