Stanton Friedman, Bob Lazar, David Icke the Best and the worst

We have ample evidence to push for disclosure. So why aren't we doing it? I sure hope it is not because you enjoy talking about it rather than doing something concrete and physical about it, or it's about the intellectual masturbation over criticizing UFO researchers and claimants, because in some way that is more exciting than lobbying for the truth.

Agreed. But other than writing congressmen (which I have done) and voting for pro-disclosure candidates (which rarely state they are as such), I'm not sure what more I can do...and not sound like a loon (keep job, etc.) I suspect that is a big part of why there isn't a bigger push for it. The powers that be did a very thorough job over the last half century, of ridiculing the entire field. And you wonder why I get so worked up over obvious charlatains??? It is men like that who have been the biggest HELP to the coverup, by further relegating UFOs to the "wacky" label.

My thoughts,
David Icke - reptillians aside I believe Icke to be a fraud because he clams to have "traced the bloodlines of royal families back for thousands of years". Now IMHO this proves him to be a fraud as that clam is impossble. Allow me to elaborate. I have many friends who have a huge nterest in genealogy, one lament I her often is that it s neqarly impossible to trace ones roots any father back than the 16-17th centuries due to
a) the lack of surviving records
b) the fact that for many areas there was no government or centralised dtabase of births the traditions being to record birth's in the family bible
c) The fact that many people upon moving from one country to another either changed thier name or took on existing names.
Now while its true that royal families were a bit more discplined about keeping these types of records in mny ways the royal records are even less reliable due to the fact that many royals commisinoed "evidence" to show that they were descended from Alexander the great, William the conquerer etc.
In addition there is the fact that most records were of the mle line which is inherantly unaccurate. The fact is prior to genetic testing it was impossible to tell whether the child of a male noble was in fact his son. However because the royalty was for the most part male dominated and inheritances were male to male it is impossible even where records exist to determine if the son of a king was in acuality his son. The instances of infidelity in royal marriages on both sides (male and female) are legend.
Given the dearth of records, the inconsistancies and outright fabrications in existing records and the inabillity to determine whether a lords "legal heir" was in fact in anyway related to him the idea of tracing back a bloodline 1000's of years is shown to be ludicrous.
Then theres also the fact that anytime a popular scifi movie comes out he lifts many of the plot devices, I mean his theories read like a mshmash of the best of sci fi IE the matrix, 2001 V etc.
Stanton freidman - Of all those who claim to be UFO researchers this is the only one I have any respect for. For one he does in fact have verifiable academis credentials, and does actually investigate. While I do not always agree with his conclusions at least he has more than two brain cells to rub together and get a spark.
Von Danniken - Another Icke type sensationalist IMHO
Billy Meier - See above
John Lear - A spoiled rich kid who latched on to UFO's as a way to escape from his daddies shadow IMHO.
Bob Lazar - IMHO he is a loser who is compensating for his lack of any skills or talent by fabricting a grandiose story in which he is a dedicated and persecuted scientist who is fighting for the little guy and the truth.

sorry mistake

[edit on 29-11-2004 by Cade]

wouldnt it be nice to know the secret diana was going to shock the world with

Originally posted by mwm1331
Now while its true that royal families were a bit more discplined about keeping these types of records in mny ways the royal records are even less reliable due to the fact that many royals commisinoed "evidence" to show that they were descended from Alexander the great, William the conquerer etc.

Exactly

Most royal families can be traced back to heroes or Gods because the royal family MADE SURE they could, if you know what I mean. After all who was better fit to rule than the great grandson of Zeus, Odin or whoever. If every word was true just illegitimate Kids ALONE would after 20-30 generations make ANY bloodline a joke. My family was Scots/Irish with birth records back to the 1600s but after that it blurs more and more the further you go back, we are related to a Pict king but we are unsure how close and to be honest shortly after the 1600s most is just guess work at BEST.

But in reality, as I mentioned before, Icke and Hoagland both would be easy to prove one way or the other. A DNA test and another Mars probe could prove or disprove either.

The others would be harder because most depend on documents that can easily be forged or eye whitness reports that can be mistaken or out right lies. The problem with the research is there are so many crackpots out there that people just think "theres another one" every time the hear about a sighting. I believe we as a community are as much to blame as anyone else, until we seek proof (or as much as possible) from our "Leaders" than nothing will change.

Of course some would not be happy with a live alien in a cage and some will believe the wildest BS without the slightest question.

The problem is trying to walk the middle ground

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by gzhpcu
I am jumping pretty late in the fray, but I would vote for Richard Dolan and Dr. Richard Haines and Friedman Stanton tied for first as the best UFO researchers.

Thanks for the links

Could you give a brief introduction for these two?

that is part of the reason I started the thread was to try to find the serious reasearchers and most creditable. I will check them out.

Sure:

Richard Dolan was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1962, the son of a police officer and nurse. Was an undergraduate student at Alfred University, where he studied History, English, and Philosophy.

Did graduate work at the University of Rochester on German and Soviet studies before moving on to American Cold War diplomacy.

Got interested in UFOs around 1994. Started researching the subject and hunting down documents releated to UFOs through the Freedom of Information Act. Found the amount of information overwhelming and decided to write a book on it.

Wrote the excellent "UFOS and the National Security State: An Unclassified History, Volume One: 1941-1973". Is currently working on Volume Two.


Richard F. Haines was born and raised in Seattle, Washington, and attended the University of Washing ton (College of Engineering) and Pacific Lutheran College (Tacoma) where he received the B.A. degree in 1960. He was awarded the M.A. and Ph.D. from Michigan State University (East Lansing) in 1962 and 1964, respectively, in the field of Experimental Psychology.

After working at NASA-Ames from 1967 - 1986 as a research scientist in numerous astronautical (Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, Space Station) and aeronautical (e.g., Mgr. of the Joint FAA/NASA Head-up Display Program, landing simulation research) projects, he was appointed Chief of the Space Human Factors Office at NASA-Ames (1986-1988) where he directed research and development efforts of the AX-5 "hard" EVA space suit, habitability design research for Space Station Freedom, and spacecraft window design.

His interest in UFO phenomena spans over 20 years with special interests in sightings by pilots, analysis of photographic evidence, and data on Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind. He claims that, "these three areas contain the type of data that will bring us to a successful discovery of the core nature of the phenomena. Founded NARCAP.

Agreed. But other than writing congressmen (which I have done) and voting for pro-disclosure candidates (which rarely state they are as such), I'm not sure what more I can do...and not sound like a loon (keep job, etc.) I suspect that is a big part of why there isn't a bigger push for it. The powers that be did a very thorough job over the last half century, of ridiculing the entire field.

The route you have taken is as effective as writing to the mafia to solve crime(better than nothing though) I think you know how transparent the legal and government stucture is by now. Disclosure can only be done via public information awareness, and you are afraid of this, out of fear of ridicule and losing your job, yet would rather talk about it in a conspiracy forum as an intellectual hobby.

In the end it really does boil down what I said: it is an entertainment, rather than a movement to uncover the truth. Which is sad, considering what is exactly at stake here. I think a lot of people forget how much power they have and they can, if they had the will and determination, end this once and for all.

In the end, like everyone else, we will know at the same time everyone else does, that is when the government deems it necessary. So I must say, can't blame the skeptics and their "proof by authority announcement" logic.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Agreed. But other than writing congressmen (which I have done) and voting for pro-disclosure candidates (which rarely state they are as such), I'm not sure what more I can do...and not sound like a loon (keep job, etc.) I suspect that is a big part of why there isn't a bigger push for it. The powers that be did a very thorough job over the last half century, of ridiculing the entire field.

The route you have taken is as effective as writing to the mafia to solve crime(better than nothing though) I think you know how transparent the legal and government stucture is by now. Disclosure can only be done via public information awareness, and you are afraid of this, out of fear of ridicule and losing your job, yet would rather talk about it in a conspiracy forum as an intellectual hobby.

In the end it really does boil down what I said: it is an entertainment, rather than a movement to uncover the truth. Which is sad, considering what is exactly at stake here. I think a lot of people forget how much power they have and they can, if they had the will and determination, end this once and for all.

In the end, like everyone else, we will know at the same time everyone else does, that is when the government deems it necessary. So I must say, can't blame the skeptics and their "proof by authority announcement" logic.

I think you write an unpopular truth.



Sincerly

Cade

Stanton friedman gets the vote for me. I have pretty much come to the same conclusions about UFOs on my own that he has. He is in my opinion, the best of the best in UFO research.

The worst? David Icke. The dude has really helped foster the idea that all UFO and alien researchers are a bunch of fringe nutjobs or New Age hippies. Billy Meier is another who deserves Hall of Shame credits.

Bob Lazar is confusing. One one hand, hsi credentials appear false. On the other hand, he has the paystub from the Navy. and he knew the layout of area 51. Still confused about him.

And of course, theres the big list of researchers, past and present, who always have my own endorsement. J.Allen Hynek, Maj. Keyhoe, Kevin Randle,Dr. David jacobs, Budd Hopkins, Dr. John Mack, Timmothy Good, Nick Pope, William Moore,....amongst others, too numerous to name.

Bob Lazar is telling the truth. He is a very talented individual and anyone that knows physics can tell he is a professional physicist by the fluency of which he speaks of physics concepts. Refer to Coast 2 Coast interviews for that.

He also runs www.unitednuclear.com, which only a talented and productive individual can do (unlike the jealous jew Friedman).

Stanton Friedman is an obvious agent. His job is gain credibility with the UFO crowd by remarking about already well-known UFO incidents and then debunking/lying about new real UFO info that his Jewish controllers don't want you to know.

Friedman's tricks include covertly releasing fake government documents to other legit researchers and then popping out of nowhere with "obvious forgery" evidence that only the original criminal could know about. Fools were deceived by this trick into believing Friedman was legit and trustworthy. But he only wants to "gain credibility" with the UFO sheeple whilst really doing nothing to expose new and real UFO information. Are you clever enough to see his trick?

Friedman tries to debunk Lazar because Lazar is telling you the truth.

What Friedman won't tell you about Lazar
- Lazar passed professional and independent polygraph test (with tester visibly astonished on film - was reported in first interviews with lazar).

- Lazar speaks fluently of advanced physics concepts and advanced chemistry concepts

- Lazar ows United Nuclear, a company which BUILTS ITS OWN very rare scientific supplies. The guy is obviously extremely skilled - probably why they hired him to reverse engineer UFOs in the first place.

If Lazar is a disinfo agent, then the only logical conclusion would be that the level of whch he operates is very close to or at the extra-terrestrial level. In other words, either he is a "reptillian" or he really is what he says he is, and that is by far the most logical conclusion.

Originally posted by Amuk
Just curious who people think has the most and the least credibility among researchers in the UFO field.

I think Stanton Friedman has the most in my opinion and Icke has the least.

Stanton seems to show some skepticism in his research and doest try to fit the lasted fad into his theory's

I cant figure Bob Lazar out, I think he might be there to spread disinformation but something about him just doesn't meet the eye. I think he knows SOMETHING I am just not sure what it is.

I think Richard Hogan has SOME credibility but not a whole lot. I think he believes what he says but that doesn't make it true

Icke I think is just a con artist that has found his niche.

What dopes everybody else think? Did I leave your favorite or worst out?

[edit on 26-11-2004 by Amuk]

icke lost money..his career...his friends and a large part of his life for coming out like he did at the height of his fame..do you not know that?

whatever you think of his ideas...you have to admire his bravery and honesty...to himself and his beliefs..

if theres one person i would claim was my hero it would be him...

The best researcher I have found is Major Kevin Randle (USAR). He is not afraid to state he is wrong, and will also get the straight answers we are looking for. He is not afraid to call a hoax a hoax, and has been called a disinformation agent.
His books on Roswell are very well researched, with his latest even including a section on giving an argument the crash was not extraterrestrial. No other author would do that, and we need tough questions to find the answers. He also made no friends in the UFO community when he wrote a book questioning abduction research methods, and most of the cases.
He does believe the crash at Roswell was alien, and has found many documents proving something unusual did happen there.

Stanton Friedman does have some faults, and some criticize him for still believing the MJ-12 papers are real (after reading analysis by Maj Randle, I believe the papers are a well done hoax, possibly by the government to throw people off the trail). His research into the matter has turned up hundreds of never before seen real documents that are very valuable to the cause (including one by J Edgar Hoover on the FBI and flying disks). He also found out the Dr Menzel had worked on Top Secret projects for the intelligence agencies and was possible a real disinformation agent. That one alone should be praise worthy. His books do tend to repeat a lot, but he does have a lot of good material and things to say.

Dr J Allen Hynek is probably the best one of the bunch. A renowned astronomer who was hired to debunk UFOs started to ask good questions. He put his reputation on the line and started to ask for a real scientific inquiry into UFOs. All the researchers owe him a debt of gratitude for giving some credence to the field.

There are many who do a disservice to the research community. Some just do sloppy research, while others write up outright hoaxes. Warren Smith admitted to making things up in his books, and Bill Moore has a dubious record at best. The abduction researchers over rely on hypnotic regression knowing full well the mainstream science will not accept it. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the believers who buy into every book, DVD and theory without asking questions bare the brunt of the blame.

It seems nothing has changed since 2004 when this thread started. The hero's are still hero's and hucksters and still hucksters.

Not surprising huh! All you have to do is read half the crap on the Aliens/UFO's board to realize that UFOlogy has stagnated into a fanciful playground for the fantasy prone and paranoid. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother any more.

IRM

reply to post by Amuk


Lazar might be a fraud if we believe Friedman. If he is then that implicates Lear as they are friends and have supported each other's stories.
Also Lear has come out with some real doozies, the one about the "soul catcher" on the moon lost me for sure.
I can't see aliens interfering with "the Divine". Holy crap, they can mess with our physical bodies but our souls? No friggin' way! Once I'm out of this bag of bones and water I'm free and no alien is gonna suck me up to the moon with some antenna he bought from Tandy!! The idea is ridiculous.