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Stanton Friedman, Bob Lazar, David Icke the Best and the worst

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posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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So if some one tries to sell me a book saying the Earth is flat and the sun is just a shiny bird and I don't believe it I AM narrow minded?


Alright, buster. Write me an article of 5 pages that summarises your evidence and research for the above claims. Touche.


That YOU would believe it speaks a lot of YOU as a person.


The fact that you have decided to ignore the fact that I don't say "I believe" even though I have reiterated it many times, speaks even further about you as a person.


There is a difference between being open minded and being gullible


Open minded is about being open to the possibilities of new ideas.

Gullible is being easily decieved and duped by exercising a blind faith in something.

Close minded is about being unreceptive to the possibilites of news ideas.

Now, I wonder which one applies to you, who is not even willing to speculate about the possibility of a shape-shifting reptillian ET race. Nor is willing to read anything that supports the proposition. Let's see now, unreceptive to the possibilites of new ideas......


I have been to his site dozens of times so I don't need to feed the con man I have better things to do with my money


I don't know what so funny, because the joke is on you. You are "trolling" on Icke, and making yourself look very bad indeed. Read his books, mate, or zip it. Do you remember what Icke said to you during the interview?


[edit on 26-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]




posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

I don't know what so funny, because the joke is on you. You are "trolling" on Icke, and making yourself look very bad indeed. Read his books, mate, or zip it. Do you remember what Icke said to you during the interview?


Why yes I do remember. He refused to show ONE SHRED of proof


I refuse to believe his fairy tales because there is NOT ONE SHRED of truth to any of it.

As far as me making myself look bad I am not the person willing to believe anything told to me by any wacko on the Internet

And as for zipping it I am entitled to my opinion and if you and Icke don't like it why don't yall sic the lizard men on me


This thread was not intended to be a soap box for Ickes BS but to see who members trusted the most and trusted the least. All but you seem to be of the same opinion of Icke. It is obvious some trust ANYBODY but I would like to move along now.

With your and the lizardmen permission of course



[edit on 26-11-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:59 PM
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``

my view is that none of them could-would-should
want to be graded 'A-One' as a 'regular scientist'

they got a different view of things
they recognize different patterns
-therefore they all got agendas & theories that are fringe & edgy-
HOORAY!

? i don't think any one of them has a malicious, greedy heart...
or would create falsehoods to sell.
each has a deep desire to express their worldview, as best they can,
if one came across as too polished, so researched as to have no loop-holes
or ambiguities....then, i might suspect a charletan

$4 a pk?



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am starting to seriously gravitate towards Ike's "Lizard factor" after my own research has supported a lot of what he has said, even though I did not set out to research him:

1. US is run by a nepotist European bloodline royals.
2. The Queen of England collects tax from the US and also gives orders to US social security, the federal government and the judicial system.
3. US still remains a European colony and 70% of it's economy is run by elite european families.
4. The NWO's origins date as far as the Roman empire and lead to globalization after the imperial era.
5. They are involved in secret satanical socities that perform ritualistic child abuse.
5. They are all jointly involved in the NWO development, and simutaneously calling out for one and laying out plans for totaliterian regimes.
6. There are aliens and they are involved with our governments, and both are keeping us in the dark. One such reported factions are reptillian aliens, and reported to be hostile to humas.
7. There is a lot of historically documented anecdotes of shape-shifting reptillians in a diverse range of cultures

If one were to sum up all these points, they would be left with something that sounds a lot like what Ike is saying:

A group of reptillian races, that were represented as evil by the bible, with hostile agendas towards humans, that systematically poisoned, murdered and retarded human society over a milllenia and which is culminating into it's total enslavement. I remember times when I use to read the bible and laugh at the notions of demons and evil serpants, but really today, I'm not so sure.

There is so much happening in the world, that it is difficult to say if anything is impossible now. Deny all the BS you have been fed by the propaganda machine called education. Go out there with a blank mind, be a child again, and find out for yourself what the world is all about.

I think I should read some of Ikes books and see where it leads me.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]


Just wanted to say that I found your post to be thought provoking and interesting. Wish we could talk. I've been listening to David Ike on radio interviews available on the net, and he is most certainly sincer! He really blows my mind, and I like that!

Cade



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 11:29 PM
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Stanton Friedman doesn't know #, i probably am a better UFOlogist than him.
Bob Lazar is not a fraud, if you actually researched more carefully you will see that there is evidence to show he did work at the places he says he worked, although there are some people that say they cant remember teaching him and such there are some that remember him.
Bob Lazar was confirmed to be real by Dr. Michael Wolf, and i seriously doubt someone who was like Michael Wolf would lie.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 12:07 AM
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How do you feel that you are "moderating" anything, by making fun of members idears in this thread?

Do you feel that a moderator should "chill" those who make fun of others opinions IN A FORUM FOR ALIENS!!! Or do you feel a moderator should himself be the one to rock the boat and make fun of the members he is there to "moderate" ?

I was just wondering if you had given this any thought?

I mean, we can all see what you are doing and how investigative your mind is, but when you sit back and take a hard look at your role as a moderater, how do you respond to the above questions?

It would seem like the wilder the forum topic (in this case ALIENS) the narrower the mindset, and the less investigative... this alone should be investigated with a deep and baffled mind....


Sincerly

Cade



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by Cade
How do you feel that you are "moderating" anything, by making fun of members idears in this thread?



The only thing I am making fun of is peoples willingness to believe the most outlandish stories without the slightest bit of proof



Do you feel that a moderator should "chill" those who make fun of others opinions IN A FORUM FOR ALIENS!!! Or do you feel a moderator should himself be the one to rock the boat and make fun of the members he is there to "moderate" ?


If I hurt your feelings feel free to get a tissue, I have a right to my opinion just like anyone else if you don't like it take it up with management. If you wish to believe in fairy tales be my guest but I need a little more proof than just the word of someone trying to separate fools and there money. If you or ANYONE else can show me ANY kind of proof to back up his outlandish claims I will be happy to listen. That was the reason of this thread to see who the members trusted and who they didn't. Why should it matter to you if I don't believe Icke? It sure doesn't matter to me if YOU do.



I mean, we can all see what you are doing and how investigative your mind is, but when you sit back and take a hard look at your role as a moderater, how do you respond to the above questions?


Is it investigative to believe any story without any proof? I have repeated in just about every post for someone to give me the slightest reason to believe his BS and so far no one has. How about you Skippy? Want to make me a believer? If so show me something that can be proved. The reptile BS could be proved with any DNA sample from a cigarette butt or silverware from where they ate. I would imagine that a shape shifting reptile alien should have DNA different than a human. It shouldn't be hard to collect the DNA since EVERY world leader and EVERYONE in ANY place of power is one. I wonder why Icke has never done it? All it would take is tweenty bucks to a waitress and he would have his proof and I would be really embarassed. But of course you are free to believe it without ANY proof just dont expect me too.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by aelphaeis_mangarae
Stanton Friedman doesn't know #, i probably am a better UFOlogist than him.
Bob Lazar is not a fraud



What makes you distrust Stanton? Most people regard him quite highly.

What makes you believe Lazar? I feel there is something to Lazar's story but am just not sure what. There are laws about disclosing any top secret projects which to me discredits his story somewhat.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 12:54 AM
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If you read Icke's books Amuk, you would see multiple resources. As well, there is philosophical value to his writings. Read 'Tales from the Time Loop' and then maybe you'll have a little more standing on this subject.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
If you read Icke's books Amuk, you would see multiple resources. As well, there is philosophical value to his writings. Read 'Tales from the Time Loop' and then maybe you'll have a little more standing on this subject.


Is a resource the same thing as proof? If it is some thing like the Egyptians worshiped a crocodile so reptiles form space are ruling us in disguise than I am not going to buy it.

I have been to his site repeatedly and plan to keep going but to be honest just don't see the point in going further, and I REALLY don't see the point of sending him MY hard earned money. I just cant get past the part of how easy this would be to prove and no one since the dawn of time has done it.

If you have any info that would change my mind U2U me a link and I will check it out.

I will even admit that there may be threads of truth running through his stories but I believe he has taken every theory he can think along with the latest movies, TV shows, etc; and made up a tale to sell books and get speakers fees. People will pick the Bible apart word by word to discredit it, and they should, but then turn right around and believe everything this man says.

What ever truth is in his stories is lost among all the BS. If anything like I mentioned earlier I would think he was being paid to make the UFO community look like a bunch of wackos. You cant say well this part isn't true but this part is, if he is conning me on one part then I look for the con on the rest. I am sorry I just cant buy into it.
Honestly I did not start this thread to be an Icke bashing thread (I already have 3-4 of them:lol


How do you feel about the others I mentioned? Or anyone else?
Who do you trust the Most? Who do you trust the least?



[edit on 27-11-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Cade
How do you feel that you are "moderating" anything, by making fun of members idears in this thread?



The only thing I am making fun of is peoples willingness to believe the most outlandish stories without the slightest bit of proof


So your only making fun of peoples willingness to believe what you consider outlandish? Beliefs that come from reading books that you have not read, but have decided contain no proof?
Is this a scientific or a non-scientific approach?





Do you feel that a moderator should "chill" those who make fun of others opinions IN A FORUM FOR ALIENS!!! Or do you feel a moderator should himself be the one to rock the boat and make fun of the members he is there to "moderate" ?


If I hurt your feelings feel free to get a tissue, I have a right to my opinion just like anyone else if you don't like it take it up with management. If you wish to believe in fairy tales be my guest but I need a little more proof than just the word of someone trying to separate fools and there money. If you or ANYONE else can show me ANY kind of proof to back up his outlandish claims I will be happy to listen. That was the reason of this thread to see who the members trusted and who they didn't. Why should it matter to you if I don't believe Icke? It sure doesn't matter to me if YOU do.


So if you hurt the members feelings they should go get a tissue? You should not consider appologizing or at least change your behavior? (thanks for the tissue)





I mean, we can all see what you are doing and how investigative your mind is, but when you sit back and take a hard look at your role as a moderater, how do you respond to the above questions?


Is it investigative to believe any story without any proof? I have repeated in just about every post for someone to give me the slightest reason to believe his BS and so far no one has. How about you Skippy? Want to make me a believer? If so show me something that can be proved. The reptile BS could be proved with any DNA sample from a cigarette butt or silverware from where they ate. I would imagine that a shape shifting reptile alien should have DNA different than a human. It shouldn't be hard to collect the DNA since EVERY world leader and EVERYONE in ANY place of power is one. I wonder why Icke has never done it? All it would take is tweenty bucks to a waitress and he would have his proof and I would be really embarassed. But of course you are free to believe it without ANY proof just dont expect me too.


Is it investigative to believe any story without any proof you ask. Let me ask you, is there proof without investigation? If you investigated a subject and I claimed your new beliefs based on this investigation was silly, without myself having done the same research. How intelligent would I be?


Sincerly

Cade



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 09:10 AM
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Someone once said that convincing someone is no fun, and being convinced is no fun at all.

Why should we try to convince each other?

Why are we not just sharing our findings so others can choose to pick their next reference point of investigation?

Amuk, I for one am not trying to convince you of anything. I'm not trying to make a believer out of you, just trying to make a tolerant person out of you, will this be hard for me?


Sincerly

Cade

[edit on 27-11-2004 by Cade]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Cade

Amuk, I for one am not trying to convince you of anything. I'm not trying to make a believer out of you, just trying to make a tolerant person out of you, will this be hard for me


A troll is a troll is a troll. It hardly matters Amuk is a moderator, but I think it is fairly obvious at least in regards to Icke, that Amuk is being a troll. This is not an insult. As it is default by definition of Amuk's behavior here.

So if he wants to be a self-proclaimed troll, then let him be, because it at the expense of his credibility, intelligence, reputation and character. However, I do think his demeaneour is against ATS rules, as he is deriding this topic for his own destructive personal hate, which only makes intelligent discussion difficult or impossible.

So I suggest to Amuk, to honour ATS rules, and keep his personal issues to himself, so we can resume intelligent discussion of the topic.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Cade
Amuk, I for one am not trying to convince you of anything. I'm not trying to make a believer out of you, just trying to make a tolerant person out of you, will this be hard for me?


To make me believe that shapeshifting jewish masonic devil worshiping baby eating lizard men from outer space are mind controling us in a holographic world without the SLIGHTEST BIT OF PROOF?

Yep that might take a bit



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
So I suggest to Amuk, to honour ATS rules, and keep his personal issues to himself, so we can resume intelligent discussion of the topic.


How many times have I said we can agree to disagree and move along? How many times have I offered to look at any evidence yall had but just was not going to plunk down my money to a con man? Who is being a troll here? I suggest to YOU that if you cant stay on the topic and quit trolling ME to stop posting in this thread. As I said this thread is for comparing the SEVERAL DIFFERENT reseachers, not a flame war. If YOU cant keep YOUR personal issues out of it then move along

They have been a few other people that posted belief in Icke and I am not "Trolling" them, as I have said before you have a right to believe him just as I have a rifgt NOT to. If that bothers you. Tuff




[edit on 27-11-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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Ok, i'll take them one by one:

How many times have you offered to look at the evidence? None.

Who is not staying on topic? You. While we are here trying to discuss and moving ahead with it, you are constantly sitting there reminding us how silly, stupid it is, by constantly s'n-word'ing like a teenage girl, at everyone who is trying to take him seriously. So, you have made your point. Now, what are you doing?

And finally "comparing research" you've done none. As far as I am concerned, you got nothing new to add to this topic. All you are doing is laughing at everyone, and frankly it annoys. You are being a nuisance. Stop it.


[edit on 27-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
In having attended an extensive seminar with David Icke, I can state that he is sincere in his ideas and has some good research about symbology in traditional religions. But he is misled about his belief that there are shape-shifting Reptilians in high levels of government and that they control this planet.


Greay post.

That is what puts me off to Icke. I could give credit to a lot of what he says but I just cant buy the story about the reptiles being in EVERY position of power all over the world. On the surface I disagree about the Holographic world idea but I must admit I havent studied it as much as I have his Lizard claims, that in itself makes me tend color my opinion of most of his work.



John Lear was interviewed in this forum. One of the things he confirmed is the story of a security guard at the Dulce Facility who went to prison for publicly discussing his experience and awareness about aliens. He was just a security guard.


I havent read enough about this man to say one way or another




The same applies to Bob Lazar. He is indeed listed as having worked at the classified government installations that he claims.


I can honestly say I dont know what to make of him. His story is believable enough but I just get a nagging feeling that something is not right about it. Part of my problem with him is that, according to him he is giving out HIGHLY classified information yet the government does nothing to stop him, people have disappeared for a lot less. But on the other hand they might figure that trying to shut him up would lend creditablity to his story




Stanton Friedman is a good researcher in the overall sense but I think he harbors prejudice especially in his appraisal of Bob Lazar.


To me this guy has the most credablity of them all. I think roswell is the smoking gun of UFO research. Too much evidence and too many eye whitnessess for ALL of them to be lying. But maybe I am predjudce because his research is what got me interested in UFO to begin with.

That and seeing three UFOs as a child



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

And finally "comparing research" you've done none. As far as I am concerned, you got nothing new to add to this topic. All you are doing is laughing at everyone, and frankly it annoys. You are being a nuisance. Stop it.


That is exactly what I and others are trying to do. Grown ups are trying to talk here if you dont have anything to add other than whining then go bother someone else This is my last post to you unless you can get back on topic and stop trying to bait me.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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One person that hasn't come up but a couple times is Richard Hoagland.

What do people think of him? I would LOVE for his theory's to be true but kinda doubt it. I think he is sincere in his beliefs but on the other hand you can see pictures in almost everything, some one just sold a grilled cheese sandwich that had a picture of Mary on it



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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Just wanted to jump into the fray for a sec.

First about Amuk. I don't think he's trying to offend anyone, he's really just trying to state(and maybe overstates) his view that Icke has some ultra-questionable content that Amuk doesn't feel is valid enough to be believed.

That's fair.

Indigo, You are very passionate about this stuff, and I like that. It's that passion that keeps a man going till he's gotten to the truth. Don't feel the need to bring everyone to your view, just express your view and let people take it as they wish. There's nothing more true or more honorable than that.

Gazrok- Normally, I'd have written in just to side with Gazrok on this matter. I don't know why Gazrok seems to be coming off so strongly, maybe Gaz and Indigo have squared off before and there's egos in play. But if you really break down what Gazrok is saying, it's not really as "extreme" as it appears at first glance.

I see no reason for everyone to be so "uppity" at eachother. You all have stances that at this moment, are valid. Why? Because the topic itself is rather fragmented. If we can just keep talking with eachother about it, we may all learn some things.

Amuk and Gazrok can pose their own inner thoughts and questions, and others like Indigo can try to help them find answers. And you just repeat the cycle and "rip through" a bunch of stuff. There's truth to be found in Ickes work, and it may be something you all can agree on in the end.

Me personally, I just picked up a used copy of one of his books. Tales from The Time Loop, and I'm giving it a read as my free time allows. He is a decent writer, but the first bit of the book seems very focused on "him", vanity? I dunno. I'll let you know how it continues.

I haven't hit upon any of his real "earth shattering" stuff yet, so I'll be reserving judgement till then.

I just wanted to write in to ya'll. Remember, on message boards the ones posting are not the only ones that are following the thoughts of the discussion, many eyes look on to learn with you, even if they don't make it known.

Thanks for listening guys.

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