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Where Are the Most Segregated Schools? In Liberal States!, Of Course!

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posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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jdub297

benrl

Elton
And many neighborhoods are segregated in large cities whether by design or economics (and no, I won't let you bus my kid across town to fill a quota).


Why?

Is it for fear that your children might not achieve the same education they would near by?

Is it they may mingle with a different socio-economic class than they would?

Or is it just down to the inconvenience in the change of distance?

Just curious.

Perhaps it's because in the 60-year history of "busing," there has not been a single success story of any scale.

"Community" means more than socio-economics in many places. I grew up in a neighborhood with people of many levels of economic success; there were low-income, rental housing and "rich" homes. My classmates were just as likely to be named "Pruske," "Wilhelm," or "Garcia" as "Jones."

What we all had in common were shared values and a desire to help each other without reliance on government. Single moms and people without jobs were assisted by their neighbors; there was no "welfare mentality." Senior year, the class president was white and the valedictorian was Latino; the prom king was black and the prom queen white.

I was raised in South Texas and we learned to live together very early on.
One advantage we had over everyone else were a multitude of military bases within a few miles, and the active-duty and retired members and civilian employees populated the area with people from every nationality and ethnicity.


Funny...
I had a soon to be ex-brother-in-law who lived near the naval base in VA. They refused to send their kids to public school for that very reason...it was integrated. He came from a lily white family in a suburb where they whispered "the black family" even in 2012.

At the time, I was raising my kids barely outside of Atlanta, our neighbors were black, Nepalese, Peruvian, and about a dozen others...
No big deal that our kids all went to school together.

It is all in how you raise them as to how they view the world.




posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 04:28 PM
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benrl

jdub297
reply to post by benrl
 


In this "post-racial" era of American life and politics, it should not matter or make any difference in any interaction between government and citizrn.


You plan for the world you live in, not the one you'd like to.

People are inherently tribal, to deny that, is to deny human nature.

Some people are better at others at overcoming their baser instincts, others like to wallow in them.




Sorry, b, missed this gem of insightful logic that makes whatever study moot.
I think you've done a great job in describing the "melting pot" experiment that is the US.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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Gryphon66
So ... let's see. By this logic if a State has a) a certain political bent and also has b) a certain notoriety for some arbitrary reason, then of course it follows that c) the reason for the notoriety is the predominant political preference of the residents?

Let's see if that holds up:

Following the same logic, since New York also leads in computer-science education that means that Liberals are the only ones who care about providing educational opportunities in computer science. Right?


That is not logic, it is a fallacy of numbers; a basic error of reasoning.
New York also leads in single-mother parenthood, layoffs, exodus and wrongful convictions.


And since California leads the nation in updating its electric grid, then obviously, Liberals are the only ones who care about energy delivery efficiency. Right?


Wrong again, Socrates!
It also has the highest energy costs, food costs, inflation, drug use, job loss, identity theft and hacking.


Let's turn the cart around the other way. Since Georgia leads the nation in bank failures, obviously, Conservatives just don't know how to run a bank, right?


Your mental abilities are amazing! You haven't even begun to start, have you?
Georgia is also one of the best states in which to do business, ranked in the top 3 in 2012 and 2013.
The elimination of wasteful banks and banking practices that served only to enrich political benefactors led to a serious decline resulting from liberal government policies. It has embarked on a program to cut taxes, regulation, government employees and state agencies.


And here's one that will really bring the point home ... since Texas leads the nation in Obamacare enrollments, why, that must mean that Conservatives LOVE them Obamacare, right?

Basic logic is simply invaluable. "Non causa pro causa"aka the Fallacy of False Cause: "You presumed that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other."


That seems to explain much of your poor reasoning and lack of substance in your sad "examples."
Face it; the "Civil Rights Project" at one of the most ;liberal schools in the country conducted this study.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Gryphon66 wins this one...
Trying to link a perceived political ideology with circumstances that may or may not be due to the legislation passed by said party is reaching...
That's like Lisa Simpson and her rock that kept away tigers...

Homer was more than willing to shell out cash for it...since no tigers were around. Are you afraid of those you perceive as "liberal"? Or do you just want to feel superior to those who are different in political opinion? Trying to figure this one out, because Gryphon really laid it out that anything can be skewed...
edit on 27-3-2014 by the owlbear because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Long island is highly segregated, but it's more republican.

Try Hempstead, Parts of Isip, Parts of Huntington. And then look at all the other areas which are "more desirable"

Look at demographics and property value and visit public forums there's lots of racism and unfair stigma. Both ways to the economically excluded/repressed and to the supposed "have-alls".

You have to recite the bible and provide a passport to locals if you cross the "wrong" town lines. The stares say enough.
In the end It's not pretty, we are all human beings living in America who are affected by what happens in America, but treat ourselves worse than foreigners.

Sports are a good thing for schools to interact where their neighborhood and communities fail to do so yet they want to cut budgets everywhere.
edit on 27-3-2014 by BlubberyConspiracy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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I think the entire premise of the OP's sources would fall into the category of being illusory correlations.


Illusory correlation is the phenomenon of perceiving a relationship between variables (typically people, events, or behaviors) even when no such relationship exists. A common example of this phenomenon would be when people form false associations between membership in a statistical minority group and rare (typically negative) behaviors as variables that are novel or salient tend to capture the attention.[1] This is one way stereotypes form and endure.[2][3] David Hamilton and Terrence Rose (1980) found that stereotypes can lead people to expect certain groups and traits to fit together, and then to overestimate the frequency with which these correlations actually occur.[4]


Link

Also, using the term 'segregation' implies that there is an active policy or movement to segregate people along certain racial or economic lines. Obviously, there is no such policy or movement in effect.

So I must assume this entire topic is nothing more than a political hit-piece on liberals.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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sheepslayer247
I think the entire premise of the OP's sources would fall into the category of being illusory correlations.


Illusory correlation is the phenomenon of perceiving a relationship between variables (typically people, events, or behaviors) even when no such relationship exists. A common example of this phenomenon would be when people form false associations between membership in a statistical minority group and rare (typically negative) behaviors as variables that are novel or salient tend to capture the attention.[1] This is one way stereotypes form and endure.[2][3] David Hamilton and Terrence Rose (1980) found that stereotypes can lead people to expect certain groups and traits to fit together, and then to overestimate the frequency with which these correlations actually occur.[4]


Link

Also, using the term 'segregation' implies that there is an active policy or movement to segregate people along certain racial or economic lines. Obviously, there is no such policy or movement in effect.

So I must assume this entire topic is nothing more than a political hit-piece on liberals.


So...if we use your great post Sheep, nice to see you by the way, and quite a few others, I think it is safe to say this should be moved to political rivalry, the inflammatory title should give it away...it needs more love and threads...
Too many people cant keep an objective mind when making a post about politics.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by the owlbear
 


Nice to see you as well!

In my opinion, politics is a strange area of discussion. Otherwise intelligent and rational people can become very partisan, sometimes hateful and fail to look in to context and facts.

I used to be one of those people.

Sadly, people tend to look for what verifies their already-held beliefs, not the truth. I have tried to take the truth route....whether I like the results or not.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Whatever you say doesn’t detract from the racism and segragation of the south which is well known and documented.

The fact that racism and segregation in the north is prevalent is nothing new to black people and is no big revelation if you have experienced northern racism.

The implication though that the south is some friendly bastion of love of black people, in the light of known history, because you find out northern whites are as bigoted as the southern American is absurd, it just goes to show you that racism in America, despite Obama, is alive and well.

Malcolm X said it many times that he would prefer the openly racist bigot of the south rather than the phony northerner who smiled at him in front of his face but hissed when he turned his back



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 




Skol! Life is so much easier when you remove yourself from the "this versus that".
But with the nonsense being spoonfed to the public, concocted by advertising agencies hired by billionaires to protect investments...We are at Idiocracy I'm afraid.
"Look at THIS GRAPH!"
"Exit polls indicate..."

Okay, I think I'll have that drink now...



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by the owlbear
 


I like to think of politics as being like football.

This group cheers for one team and that group cheers for the other. They argue with each other about who has the best stats, the best coach and who will win the game....but they forget that it's still a game and the outcome is irrelevant.

Yet, they continue to do so.

I like to talk about the tactics of the "fans", not the players.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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Skyfloating
I`ve been in L.A. and Chicago numerous times and have never liked how segregated their neighborhoods are. There are very well defined lines and you're usually either in an all-black neighborhood or all-white. In New York I don't get that feeling. Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and even Harlem you`ll see whites, latinos and blacks living side by side. The super-strict segregation of places like Chicago and L.A. is weird to me and I`ve wondered why that is.


you have a big point. are these schools segregated'/i] because they have different schools for different people? or are they segregated because the communities themselves are segregated by their choices to live in an area populated by those they see as their own kind? you can see this especially within cities around North America (yes Canada as well). you have "China towns", "little Italy's", "Greek areas", "Polish Areas, "Jewish areas", "Caribbean areas", etc. and don't dare move in if you are not one of them, if you do many times you will be harassed for being in their areas, because they don't want "outsiders" there. in fact just outside Toronto years ago a new housing development opened up. all signage was in Chinese, if you went in to the sales office to try to buy a house, they would refuse to speak anything but their language. in short they didn't want anyone but but Chinese people to live there.

so if the case is that these schools are segregated because the communities themselves are it means that they are not in fact segregated at all. what are you going to do force people to "intermix" where they live by force? or waste a lot of money transporting students some distance just to insure racially mixed schools? i'll tell you now that is a VERY BAD idea.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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Hey, I was just making statement of observation and not stating any absolutes. Just saying that a democratic leaning state which should be championing diversity has the highest percentage of segregation... that's interesting. Then I just read this morning...I don't have the link here on this computer...that most of the southern states have the highest percentage of welfare recipients. Again, interesting. Especially when most of those states are railing against obamacare and welfare recipients etc. Things just aren't adding up here. That's all.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Willtell
 


And it's also the other way around. Having lived in GA for a few years, I can tell you that many of the African-American's who reside in that state are also equally as ignorant as you and other racists. It's a two way street, and unlike whites, African-American's have laws on the books that help them with racism leaving the road for "reverse racism" clear to be abused.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 08:44 PM
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I'm not surprised that, in evidence of OP not comprehending their very elementary logical mistakes, they attacked and tried to deflect what they didn't understand in the first place ... so I'll make it simpler:

The assertion that the condition of "segregation" in these States is directly attributable to the way they vote in Presidential elections (which is generally how the "red state v. blue state" false dichotomy is sustained) is ludicrous. It's a matter of population distribution ... but that's inconvenient to a anti-liberal harangue. There's plenty of factual material to damn either side of the false dichotomy of the US political spectrum with ... we don't have to fabricate or willfully misinterpret the facts.

That's anti-ATS philosophy there; we DENY ignorance, not promulgate it.

It's just basically bad logic that is painfully obvious to all here but the OP, who sadly doesn't seem to comprehend sarcasm, either.

PS: Auricom, the "laws that protect African Americans" protect all Americans. You're just repeating garden-variety racist clap-trap. Demonstrate any laws that you wish that benefit ONLY African Americans.
edit on 20Thu, 27 Mar 2014 20:47:29 -050014p082014366 by Gryphon66 because: Just cause.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 09:02 PM
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In case anyone is interested in what the actual report actually says, here's a link: Civil Rights Project at UCLA - New York Schools

From the report, the findings of cause are:



At the state level, the proportion of Latino and Asian students has nearly doubled from 1989 to 2010, as the exposure of these groups to white students has decreased.

Concentration levels have increased for black students in intensely segregated minority schools (where less than 10% of the student body is white), and there has been a simultaneous and dramatic increase in black exposure to Latino students over the last 20 years.


So the issue (which, by the way, is being addressed in these same systems) is based on shifts in population during the study period. It has NOTHING to do with "liberals States" in reality, although that does make for better right-winger bombast.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by the owlbear
 



Trying to figure this one out, because Gryphon really laid it out that anything can be skewed...


Not really; that's the magic of faulty "logic."

You may think you can skew objective analysis by taking a fact and generalizing from it. This is what Gryphon and many others who refuse to acknowledge factual analysis do to avoid facing an unsettling truth.

Neither of you have read the links to the articles, the Civil Rights Project report or even its synopsis; or you would realize that it covers multiple areas and dozens of years of objectivedata from unbiased sources. It was also highly critical of conservatives' pet project: Charter Schools!

The researchers, from UCLA , put aside their "progressive" instincts and identified multiple factors that contributed to the abysmal history and performance of schools in traditionally liberal states and districts.

Many of the factors identified can be linked to "progressive" policies and government intervention in otherwise personal choices, including where to live, where to educate our children, how to evaluate teacher and school performance, and how best to finance/pay for it all.

Plating silly games with false logic and faulty reasoning does not change the underlying facts



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 



I think the entire premise of the OP's sources would fall into the category of being illusory correlations.


Perhaps you didn't notice that the sources were clearly liberal publications and the study authors were from a liberal program in a liberal, and drew upon objective analysis and independently-sourced data.
What you think is of little importance given your selective "low information" decision not to read the study and articlkes for yourself, but to spout from your own emotions and biases.


Also, using the term 'segregation' implies that there is an active policy or movement to segregate people along certain racial or economic lines. Obviously, there is no such policy or movement in effect.


You clearly have no idea of history ands politics, or you would understand the concepts of de facto and de jure segregation, which are real, measurable and enforced.

Since the study's authors, the Huffington Post, Associated Press and NYT (all "progressive" bastions) all used the term "segregation," your lack of awareness is also plainly obvious.

So I must assume this entire topic is nothing more than a political hit-piece on liberals.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by the owlbear
 



sheepslayer247
reply to post by the owlbear
 
In my opinion, politics is a strange area of discussion. Otherwise intelligent and rational people can become very partisan, sometimes hateful and fail to look in to context and facts.

I used to be one of those people.

Sadly, people tend to look for what verifies their already-held beliefs, not the truth. I have tried to take the truth route....whether I like the results or not.


Now, you just choose to remain ignorant of facts, since the truth hurts your feelings.

The title is from the study and HuffPo article; they are not a political creation for the thread.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Willtell
 



Whatever you say doesn’t detract from the racism and segragation of the south which is well known and documented.


Nothing I posted diminishes the racial history of the South.

The study destroys the illusion that liberals and Northerners have been friends of minority children and families, despite their protestations and projections to the contrary.

In my experience, Southerners have been more inclusive of ethnic differences than any other region. Many southern states and cities have had more minority government leaders for longer, and a larger proportion of minorities in the general population, than elsewhere.


Your prejudice is showing.




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