Carroll commissioner 'willing to go to jail' over right to pray

Carroll commissioner 'willing to go to jail' over right to pray

On the day after a federal judge barred Carroll County commissioners from invoking Jesus Christ during their meetings, Commissioner Robin Frazier opened Thursday's meeting with a prayer mentioning Jesus Christ twice.
"That is an infringement on my First Amendment rights of free speech and I think it is a wrong ruling," Frazier said.
Frazier later said that she was "willing to go to jail" over her right to pray.
"If we cease to believe that our rights come from God, we cease to be America," she said.

So in Carroll County in Maryland, the Commissioner, Robin Frazier, seems to think that she can recite prayers to Jesus and God before doing legislative work. I don't know how much more separate religion should get from government than to keep it out of legislative proceedings, but apparently Mrs. Frazier seems to think that doesn't matter. And she says that she is willing to go to jail over this as well. Well at least she stands for her principles (maybe).

In a statement issued Thursday afternoon, commissioners said they disagree with the judge's ruling and will "vigorously pursue the matter to its end."

"Within the next few months, the United States Supreme Court will be issuing a ruling on legislative prayer that the Board believes will supersede and overturn this temporary injunction," board members said in the statement. "If the Supreme Court rules as the Board and its legal counsel believes it will, this lawsuit will soon be over in favor of our county."

Commissioners added that in other legislative prayer cases, "federal court judges have made very different decisions" than that made by Quarles.

The board also stated that it "does not discriminate against anyone based on their religious beliefs or non-beliefs."

Why does this even need to go to the Supreme Court? I know separation of church and state isn't technically in the Constitution, but it is certainly a KEY linchpin in how our governments in this country are ran. This should come as NO surprise to a woman who is sitting as a county commissioner, yet here we have this big issue here in Maryland.

Before beginning her prayer, Frazier clarified that she would be praying in the words of George Washington.
"This might be a good opportunity to demonstrate how our founding fathers, and leaders all throughout our history, have upheld the idea that we are a nation based on biblical principles," she said. "We're one nation under God and I believe that's where our unalienable rights come from."

No they haven't... Some may have, but we've ALWAYS had separation of church and state since Tom Jefferson wrote it down and discussed it. Don't pretend like that never existed.

Neil Ridgely, a plaintiff in the case, said Frazier's actions are another indication of her "demagoguery," adding that it is more important to her to be seen praying than to uphold the law.

"She's put her personal beliefs before her responsibilities as a county official, insulted the judge, and every Carroll citizen who dares to have a religious belief that is different than her own," he said.

Well that's putting it mildly.

What say you ATS?

I think a moment of silence would be a good compromise. She can pray. The Muslim in the corner can pray and the so on. No one gets offended. That's what needs to happen.

I never understood why these people can't just pray to themselves. I've some pretty religious relatives and they pray before doing just about anything but nobody ever notices. Two seconds of closed eyes and silence and they move on.

If the person praying just has to stand on a stage and belt it out for the whole world to hear then that person isnt simply praying for their own sake. They're praying for the show of it.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I agree!

No one is taking away her rights so much as she is selfish enough to "impose" her beliefs on others!

I usually stick up for peoples religious freedoms, but in this case, her actions are of ignorance and selfishness.

I wonder how much she would stick up for religious freedom if a Muslim chose to lay down a prayer mat to pray before the meeting???

Anyhow, good OP showing how freedom and rights only apply when they fall within the parameters of the things you believe in, but screw everyone whom believes differently than you........

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Frankly, if all they did was pray, I would be OK with it.

However, Christianity (by the scripture anyway) is a socialist ideology and is about as inconsistent with our constitution as could be and frequently provides the impetus for deleterious legislation. The ideology requires redistribution and a marked decrease in private property rights.

She isn't exactly wrong that our rights come from God, it is just that we revised the document to say "creator". The significance of this isn't to diminish the legitimacy of anyone's own beliefs as it clearly circumvents that debate. The significant message is simply that rights DO NOT come from the state.

If she has ever read our declaration of independence, I suggest she do so again.

Beliefs do not constitute a threat to our way of life but, belief systems that hold the bully pulpit do.

I would like to see some atheist government officials targeted for their belief systems and the illegitimate application of them to our laws.

thisguyrighthere
I never understood why these people can't just pray to themselves. I've some pretty religious relatives and they pray before doing just about anything but nobody ever notices. Two seconds of closed eyes and silence and they move on.

If the person praying just has to stand on a stage and belt it out for the whole world to hear then that person isnt simply praying for their own sake. They're praying for the show of it.

Matthew Chapter 6

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Basically, if your out there making a show about your praying, your not praying to god or anyone, your just showboating and its about as meaningful as dancing around an apple and calling that helping the starving.

Prayer is a heart to heart with god in privacy or in like minded company..not a show..what these politicians are doing is actually humiliating the religion, the concept of prayer, and the whole process..just so they can get attention...its vanity.
So, even strictly on a religious standpoint, they are in the wrong and every -religious- person should demand the stop to this behavior.

Not even getting into the actual issue here.

Yes, a moment of silence is best for all. If they are truly god fearing types, they will use that moment for their prayers internally...no need for sparkley coats and megaphones to transmit to all how awesomely in with God they are.

greencmp
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

I would like to see some atheist government officials targeted for their belief systems and the illegitimate application of them to our laws.

Since most states have laws stating that atheists cannot hold office, I'd like to just see an atheist government official period.

I am a Christian. I pray silently at work. Problem solved.

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

reply to post by HandyDandy


please cite these laws - do the words " no religious test " mean anything to you ?

HandyDandy

greencmp
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

I would like to see some atheist government officials targeted for their belief systems and the illegitimate application of them to our laws.

Since most states have laws stating that atheists cannot hold office, I'd like to just see an atheist government official period.

Awesome! We can change those silly laws next year. For now, we could use it impeach nearly every politician in the US!

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I have some advice for mrs frazier - read your bible it has some pertinent advice on praying in public

HandyDandy

greencmp
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

I would like to see some atheist government officials targeted for their belief systems and the illegitimate application of them to our laws.

Since most states have laws stating that atheists cannot hold office, I'd like to just see an atheist government official period.

They do? I haven't heard this before. Can you provide some proof of these claims?

ignorant_ape
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

please cite these laws - do the words " no religious test " mean anything to you ?

Does the text "other than a declaration of or belief in God/Supreme Being" mean anything to you?

Maryland, Article 37:


That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.

…

Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:


No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

…

Pennsylvania, Article I, Section 4:


No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth.

***Update***: Reader Tim points out:


Note that it doesn’t say atheists can’t serve. It says that believers can’t be disqualified from serving.

…

South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:


No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.

…

Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2 (PDF):


No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.

…

Texas, Article 1, Section 4:


No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

www.patheos.com...


They may be antiquated laws but they are still on the books.

I know we all have very polarized opinions on this, but dang does this chick have BALLS! I doubt a single one of us would continue to carry on with our conspiracy theoriess if the feds knocked down our doors and told us to, but that just goes to show how much we may all actually care about our 'theories', I mean we all become the same sheep we fight ourselves to seperate from when the wolf comes and tells you to.

You may say she's ignorant for standing up for something so stupid, but understand that the majority of America thinks you are ignorant for partaking in something so stupid i.e. conspiracy theorism. The reality of the matter is they are actually the ignorant ones for not looking into the information themselves, and you are just as ignorant for never reading the Bible cover-to-cover even once, or any other religious books for that matter. So the question becomes, who's really ignorant in the end? The answer should start becoming more transparent after re-reading this... it's all of us. (and yes I'd be willing to throw myself in the same category as I do not know it all either)

reply to post by HandyDandy


But they all do believe in a "supreme being." Even the atheists.

That Supreme Being being the state in all its glory.

Maybe somewhere there was an atheist anarchist booted out of office for violating the "Supreme Being" line but I doubt such a candidate has ever made it into office despite my single vote.

reply to post by HandyDandy


Wow, I honestly did not know that. Thanks for providing that. Those laws need to be stricken from the books. They are clearly violations and not to mention discriminatory.

reply to post by HandyDandy

, I'd like to just see an atheist government official period.

be carefull what you wish for - they do exist - google is your friend

reply to post by HandyDandy


WOW just WOW obsolete laws that would not survive any legal challenge at any court level