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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
To verfy His death, the guard pierced His abdominal cavity to witness the clotted blood cells and separated plasma run from the wound.
Ummm, no.
It was blood and water. My husband had an pleural empyema a few years ago, and they stuck a tube in his chest and drained it out. Liters of it. It was not "blood clots and separated plasma". It was watery, yellowish, bloody fluid.
Caused by a broken rib and pneumonia.
He nearly died. I sat there and watched the fluid being drained from his chest.
This silly idea that Jesus was stabbed 'through the heart' is ridiculous.
Otherwise, this thread is all yours, guys. Just don't tell lies.
It wasn't from studying interpretations of old prophecies.
The Son knew exactly what he was talking about!
You may have said that, but I don't recall you "showing" in a convincing manner.
I've already shown you that.
No you don't, Jesus was using one concept from Daniel, an "abomination of desolation", whatever that is, and applying it to another event, without specifying that it was a similar or the same event.
You have to be able to understand Daniel and what he was saying, so that you can understand what he meant.
They don't have the "setting up" part.
All these different versions of the same verse you've quoted, all basically say the same thing.
originally posted by: Logarock
In this case a spear piercing the heart caused the bleeding.
CONCLUSION
Thus, with knowledge of both anatomy and ancient crucifixion practices, it is not difficult to reconstruct the probable medical aspects of crucifixion from a cardiologist’s perspective. It is extremely likely that Jesus Christ(as) sustained an injury to the pericardium during the process of scourging. The sharp pieces of sheep bones in the whip caused deep cuts in the pericardium. This resulted in accumulation of blood in the pericardial cavity.
While on the cross, the process of blood accumulation continued. This resulted in cardiac tamponade with hemodynamic disturbance, a condition that caused the heart to struggle, as it was unable to pump blood against free blood in the coverings of the heart, leading to low blood pressure and pulse. In such a predicament, the cardiac output dropped and the brain was deprived of oxygen. It was most likely at this critical stage of hemodynamic disturbance, i.e. low blood pressure and heart rate that Jesus Christ(as) cried out in a loud voice, bowed his head and became unconscious.
The piercing of the spear in the chest aimed at the heart created a rent in the outer layer of the pericardium. This resulted in decompression of the heart ‘as blood and water gushed out.’ The increase in cardiac output as the heart was decompressed resulted in improvement of oxygen to the brain. The arrival of Joseph of Arimethia and Nicodemus, an experienced physician, further lend support that Jesus(as) survived the ordeal of crucifixion. The application of strong spices and salves at this stage was essential to prevent the wounds from infection and relief of pain. They probably employed artificial respiration when they ‘blew into him their own breath’ after Jesus(as) was brought down from the cross.
Also, the wound of the spear was left open to drain, as ‘Nicodemus believed that it was best not to close up the wound in Jesus’(as) side because he considered that flow of blood and water from there was helpful to respiration in the renewing of life.’
This practice is well known amongst cardiologists to prevent reaccumulation of blood in the pericardial cavity.
Clearly, the weight of historical and medical evidence indicates that Jesus Christ(as) did not die on the Cross but was delivered alive and then treated. - See more at: www.reviewofreligions.org...
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
(oh, and also - why on Earth would you think after having sustained a scourging his ribs would not have been broken??)
There was a whole thread on that book a while back by wildtimes.
Jesus Christ did not Die on the Cross –
A Cardiologist’s Perspective
However, the most likely scenario in this case of the Jebus, is that his lung probably collapsed from a broken rib piercing into his lung.
Here's a quote from a post by wildtimes in that thread that I mentioned, that you might find interesting.
Thanks, I'll have to review it.
The story continues on in another post.
I sat in the hospital for 11 days with my husband, who had suffered a broken rib on his right side that led to pneumonia and empyema . . .
www.abovetopsecret.com...
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Im still waiting on the rest of the details of your "swooning" theory, and historical references that back it up. Until then, all you have stated was opinion. Effusion or not the concensus is that Jesus died on the cross...unless you can PROVE otherwise.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Like a good troll should do, ya know! Bring up facts and other opinions, rather than looking at only one text.
I need "historical references" to a story with no historic validity, which no other texts than the Bible and related texts refer to. That's a tough one. Unless you already know, even proving Jesus' existence is impossible with the sources we have, much less proving he died or survived, we have no records of the guy except for the Jesus-tradition of retelling old mythical stories calling them "good news".
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I need "historical references" to a story with no historic validity, which no other texts than the Bible and related texts refer to. That's a tough one. Unless you already know, even proving Jesus' existence is impossible with the sources we have, much less proving he died or survived, we have no records of the guy except for the Jesus-tradition of retelling old mythical stories calling them "good news".
You could look for evidence in pseudopigrapha. If you consider Bible to be mythology, then counter it with mythology. My point is that you have done nothing but propose an unsupported conspiracy theory about an event you dont even believe took place. If you think Im crazy for my faith in Jesus, how much crazier do you look for arguing with what you consider a mad man? Whats the point of trying to disprove the death of a man that you dont believe ever existed? Thats what confuses me.
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I need "historical references" to a story with no historic validity, which no other texts than the Bible and related texts refer to. That's a tough one. Unless you already know, even proving Jesus' existence is impossible with the sources we have, much less proving he died or survived, we have no records of the guy except for the Jesus-tradition of retelling old mythical stories calling them "good news".
You could look for evidence in pseudopigrapha. If you consider Bible to be mythology, then counter it with mythology. My point is that you have done nothing but propose an unsupported conspiracy theory about an event you dont even believe took place. If you think Im crazy for my faith in Jesus, how much crazier do you look for arguing with what you consider a mad man? Whats the point of trying to disprove the death of a man that you dont believe ever existed? Thats what confuses me.
I believe alright, but I don't need proof for that. That's why it's called faith. Right? And pseudepigrapha? Well that's even more mythical than the Bible.
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
So, if I understand you correctly, you believe only what you want about Jesus.