America: The cursed burnt offering for the age to come.

a reply to: zardust

I just tip my hat in the Son's direction remembering:

“Just are you, O Holy One, who is and who was,
for you brought these judgments.
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink.
It is what they deserve!”

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Maigret

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Maigret
What the Son pointed to in 'when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place' was for those in Judea to flee immediately, stopping for nothing!

Templars rising a cross on mount Moria followed by panic in Jerusalem "RUN to the hills! The Christians are coming!".

Actually there is more truth to your statement than you realise. *rofl*

I see that as the only truth there is to be found in it. The Pope, aka the false prophet with his two military horns the Templars and the Johanite Maltese, together with whatever the kings of Europe managed to pile up in order to eradicate everything and everyone in their way that was un-Christian in the Promised Land. Basically two hundred years of raping and pillaging in the Holy Land all in the name of God. Wave after wave of murder and gore to avenge the Beast who was slain.

But it's for a future time, and it will be something much more ominous than a mere flag! It will be a god! Nothing causes a good dose of desolation more than religious adultery with an idol.

A fully flogged wooden Jesus with the crown of thorns squeezed down to his ears, nailed up on a rune with blood and cuts everywhere, accompanied the title of this Roman trophy idol: Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews. That, my friend was the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the "abomination". When you see the cross risen up in mount Moriah, drop whatever you are carrying and run for the hills. Sieges of Jerusalem with multinational armies surrounding the city, one day it's the Christians, the other day it's the Sarasene. Many of Jesus' prophecies is now history we can read about in the library or on Wikipedia. The age of kings and popes is over, it's time for the Scientist.

With the way some scientists are disturbing the natural nature of the earth, I believe we're soon going to be in a position of desperately needing God; but without the kings and popes! Also taking the big picture into account, I believe that God's plans are only now coming to fruition, and this will be in our immediate future.

And if the scientific experts can't agree on most theories, I doubt the pure validity of science itself, although I am fascinated by the subject. My view is that 'science is the study of God's handiwork', as someone once said.

a reply to: Maigret

The verses from Daniel refer to 'setting up' and 'placing' the Abomination of Desolation. Not the abomination of stopping the daily sacrifices, in the Temple, resulting in desolation, as you seem to be suggesting.

That is one version.
Here are some that say it differently,

English Standard Version
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

New American Standard Bible
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

King James Bible
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What the Son pointed to in 'when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place' was for those in Judea to flee immediately, stopping for nothing!

Jesus interpreted it to fit the situation.
You have to understand that there is no one definitive version of Daniel.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Logarock

Thing is you have read it so many times you now have it the other way around. Jesus followed Cain's and Melchizedek's examples and sacrificed bread and wine instead of flesh and blood. You and your fellows sacrifice Jesus, over and over to the extent he is hanging there mamed and utterly tortured nailed up on your wall somewhere, and at the altar in your church, around your neck on a leash and walking and talking in your favorite movie.

You just don't sacrifice humans and nothing good comes out of the ritual murder of Jesus. As an animal, the human being is an unclean one. Sacrificing a human is like sacrificing the mix between a monkey and a pig and thrown in the brain of a dolphin. Most unclean. Smells like old cheese, rotting mud and wet dogs. The leagues of Diablos all dribble and can't wait for the next one. Just like in the old days. Nero's Rome all over again. Right?

Again who's eating real flesh and blood and calling it the body of Jesus?

Now as far a Jesus body, in His case he was resurrected as sign of sacrifice accepted. You are consumed with foul things and necromancy. Your focus is on corruptible flesh, pigs and dogs, dead thing, vampires and blood suckers and death.


Jhn 17:1

These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:...

originally posted by: Logarock

Again who's eating real flesh and blood and calling it the body of Jesus?

One of you guys said the Eucharist was symbolic of the "sacrifice" up on Calvary a while later on. Read my sig. It says it all.

Now as far a Jesus body, in His case he was resurrected as sign of sacrifice accepted.

There you go again. Magic. Necromancy. What is it with you guys? All of the animal sacrifices in the OT, were they unaccepted then since none of them came back to life? You show a logic nothing short of the floating witch technique.

No, Jesus walking out of the grave later on is a sign someone worked hard with HLR and field surgery to make the guy survive. There is no magic benefits from it. Not for you, not for me, and certainly not for Jesus.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim


The idea of "transubstantiation" is a Catholic idea. Not a catholic here.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim







There you go again. Magic. Necromancy. What is it with you guys? All of the animal sacrifices in the OT, were they unaccepted then since none of them came back to life? You show a logic nothing short of the floating witch technique.

This cant be considered necromancy at any rate or by any estimation as necromancy has to do with the dead being in a state of death which Jesus is not. Even if you don't believe that He is alive, as far as a faith it cant be considered "necromancy" even intellectually do to the held nature of His rising from the grave.

As far as the animal sacrifices they were considered a payment in earnest toward Christ's eventual sacrifice. A sacrifice in kind. A real type and shadow of the real deal to come.

a reply to: Logarock

Care to take some time to write a few lines of how you envision the "Last (but not so last) Meal"? Symbolic/magic significance of Jesus serving bread calling it his kind of meat &c? I'm all ears. And also, do me a favour and explain the crucifiction from a sacrificial view. And please point me in the right direction to where I can find info about acceptable human sacrifice. What God has to say about how to properly sacrificing prophets and saints and so on.

I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Logarock

Care to take some time to write a few lines of how you envision the "Last (but not so last) Meal"? Symbolic/magic significance of Jesus serving bread calling it his kind of meat &c? I'm all ears. And also, do me a favour and explain the crucifiction from a sacrificial view. And plaease point me in the right direction to where I can find info about acceptable human sacrifice. What God has to say about killing prophets and saints.

Its only called the last meal because it was His last meal before crucifixion. The magic issue as you call it is a matter better discussed with those that hold the meal as a transubstantiation. As for others it has to do with His directions about doing this in remembrance of Him. It is simply a symbolic but spiritual remembrance of the Bread that came down from Heaven, spiritual manna. The blood, new wine spiritually remembered in a symbolic act, shed for the remissions of sin. The whole thing together recognizes the stature of His sacrifice as the necessary component to the restoration of God and Man.

And really this is a far cry from those hundreds of year old embalmed bodies some catholic sects put so much stock in. I have myself called that practice necromancy. And I believe it is.

More later.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?

Exactly. Brainwashing in full bloom. It's all originating in a diabolical misinterpretation of

Isajah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

KJV

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Have you ever read any Girard?

en.wikipedia.org...

No, I haven't, weird stuff, this guy's crazy. Could explain the Roman circus and overkill violence in modern movies, I guess.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What God has to say about how to properly sacrificing prophets and saints and so on.

What the New Testament refers to for explanation for what Jesus went through is the Suffering Servant story of Isaiah 53.
Martyrdom is not strictly speaking a sacrifice, but I think that it is probably a general form of sacrifice on the part of the individual involved.
Jesus said that whoever tried to save their life would loose it.
That means that this mortal life is not worth saving if it means loosing eternal life.
I think this motto was borrowed directly from one used by the Roman Legions concerning the proper attitude towards self conduct on the battlefield.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?

Yes He did....


Mat 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Mar 2:10

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins...


Jhn 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

These are Jesus words above.

a reply to: 3n19m470

I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins,

The problem as I see it is that too many times, people construe the "for your sins" as Jesus somehow paying for your sins, while nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that Jesus died to pay for sins.

. . . then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever.

I think that believing in Jesus, and his resurrection is tremendously important on a psychological level, if nothing else.
It should give us hope in a resurrection, for one, and it should make us optimistic in regards to the power of God's spirit to be able to transform us, sinful human beings, to become righteous as Jesus was.

Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?

Jesus didn't talk about his death as being somehow the means to pay for sins.
He did talk about believing in him as the sole way that has been given to mankind to reunite us in good standing with God.
My interpretation of the phrase, "Jesus died for the sins of the world" is that Jesus, in an earthly human body just like ours, corrupted by thousands of years of sin, was accepted by God as righteous, enough to vindicate that righteousness by raising him from the dead, means that the sinfulness that is unavoidable by our mortal natures is not going to prevent our own resurrection, and our being given at that time incorruptible spiritual bodies to be absolutely perfect and righteous in the life to come.
I'm talking about a residual "humanness" inherent to this life in this word that is still there no matter how good we are and the absence of blatant infractions.
The letters of John mentions that there are some sins not unto death. I think that was what he was talking about.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What God has to say about how to properly sacrificing prophets and saints and so on.

What the New Testament refers to for explanation for what Jesus went through is the Suffering Servant story of Isaiah 53.

Sure Jesus was the suffering servant? Can you please list all the diseases and afflictions he suffered? Except for the crucifiction, when did Jesus suffer or show any sign of weakness? Sure it's not the other way around? That Jesus was Isajah's suffering guy's best friend and shining star? Did Jesus infect himself to make vaccines and antidotes which he then used to heal?

You can survive anything, as long as there is sense, love and honour and the will and position to change fate and take the force of the blow. The centurion "Longinus" did just that, showing the greatest kind of love, by lying about Jesus state and perform vital surgery on his lifeless, non-breathing body. Wonder why the Bible has avoided the report that Longinus was killed a few days later for having failed to kill a convicted criminal. Where is the love?! You're robbing Peter to pay Paul here.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The centurion "Longinus" did just that . . .

According to Medieval fiction.
I don't recommend putting any stock into such stories.
The Suffering Servant was the "lamb" before its shearers, according to Isaiah.
The prolog of Mark says ". . . as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:".

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The centurion "Longinus" did just that . . .

According to Medieval fiction.
I don't recommend putting any stock into such stories.
The Suffering Servant was the "lamb" before its shearers, according to Isaiah.
The prolog of Mark says ". . . as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:".

And then it has to be like that. The incorruptable Bible says so. About itself. Is Isaiah 7:20 also about weird stuff Jesus did that made us think he was mad and stricken by God? Royal Asian Gillette Rental Hair Mayem.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I think the destruction of USA will occur on 9/16/2016 when the Rapture occurs and the Mayan calendar is completely intercalated. Jesus taught that no man would know the day or hour of His return to Earth because He would cut the Tribulation short for the sake of the elect. BUT, at no point did Jesus prohibit the knowledge of the day and hour of the Resurrection of the Church. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you see the irony in your own posting? Maybe you should adhere to your own belief in 'Jesus'.

Like most Religious people; they skew their own beliefs to suit their own desire.

There seems to always be a massive "BUT" with Religion believers. Lol

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: 3n19m470
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?

Yes He did....


Mat 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And the sin in question is bloodshed and slaughtering. Stuff you call acceptable sacrifice to God. Scapegoat justice for all ha? Jesus also said: "For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."