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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: Maigret
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: Maigret
What the Son pointed to in 'when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place' was for those in Judea to flee immediately, stopping for nothing!
Templars rising a cross on mount Moria followed by panic in Jerusalem "RUN to the hills! The Christians are coming!".
Actually there is more truth to your statement than you realise. *rofl*
I see that as the only truth there is to be found in it. The Pope, aka the false prophet with his two military horns the Templars and the Johanite Maltese, together with whatever the kings of Europe managed to pile up in order to eradicate everything and everyone in their way that was un-Christian in the Promised Land. Basically two hundred years of raping and pillaging in the Holy Land all in the name of God. Wave after wave of murder and gore to avenge the Beast who was slain.
But it's for a future time, and it will be something much more ominous than a mere flag! It will be a god! Nothing causes a good dose of desolation more than religious adultery with an idol.
A fully flogged wooden Jesus with the crown of thorns squeezed down to his ears, nailed up on a rune with blood and cuts everywhere, accompanied the title of this Roman trophy idol: Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews. That, my friend was the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the "abomination". When you see the cross risen up in mount Moriah, drop whatever you are carrying and run for the hills. Sieges of Jerusalem with multinational armies surrounding the city, one day it's the Christians, the other day it's the Sarasene. Many of Jesus' prophecies is now history we can read about in the library or on Wikipedia. The age of kings and popes is over, it's time for the Scientist.
That is one version.
The verses from Daniel refer to 'setting up' and 'placing' the Abomination of Desolation. Not the abomination of stopping the daily sacrifices, in the Temple, resulting in desolation, as you seem to be suggesting.
Jesus interpreted it to fit the situation.
What the Son pointed to in 'when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place' was for those in Judea to flee immediately, stopping for nothing!
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Logarock
Thing is you have read it so many times you now have it the other way around. Jesus followed Cain's and Melchizedek's examples and sacrificed bread and wine instead of flesh and blood. You and your fellows sacrifice Jesus, over and over to the extent he is hanging there mamed and utterly tortured nailed up on your wall somewhere, and at the altar in your church, around your neck on a leash and walking and talking in your favorite movie.
You just don't sacrifice humans and nothing good comes out of the ritual murder of Jesus. As an animal, the human being is an unclean one. Sacrificing a human is like sacrificing the mix between a monkey and a pig and thrown in the brain of a dolphin. Most unclean. Smells like old cheese, rotting mud and wet dogs. The leagues of Diablos all dribble and can't wait for the next one. Just like in the old days. Nero's Rome all over again. Right?
originally posted by: Logarock
Again who's eating real flesh and blood and calling it the body of Jesus?
Now as far a Jesus body, in His case he was resurrected as sign of sacrifice accepted.
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
There you go again. Magic. Necromancy. What is it with you guys? All of the animal sacrifices in the OT, were they unaccepted then since none of them came back to life? You show a logic nothing short of the floating witch technique.
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Logarock
Care to take some time to write a few lines of how you envision the "Last (but not so last) Meal"? Symbolic/magic significance of Jesus serving bread calling it his kind of meat &c? I'm all ears. And also, do me a favour and explain the crucifiction from a sacrificial view. And plaease point me in the right direction to where I can find info about acceptable human sacrifice. What God has to say about killing prophets and saints.
originally posted by: 3n19m470
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?
KJV
Isajah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Have you ever read any Girard?
en.wikipedia.org...
What the New Testament refers to for explanation for what Jesus went through is the Suffering Servant story of Isaiah 53.
What God has to say about how to properly sacrificing prophets and saints and so on.
originally posted by: 3n19m470
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?
The problem as I see it is that too many times, people construe the "for your sins" as Jesus somehow paying for your sins, while nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that Jesus died to pay for sins.
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins,
I think that believing in Jesus, and his resurrection is tremendously important on a psychological level, if nothing else.
. . . then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever.
Jesus didn't talk about his death as being somehow the means to pay for sins.
Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: UtnapisjtimWhat the New Testament refers to for explanation for what Jesus went through is the Suffering Servant story of Isaiah 53.
What God has to say about how to properly sacrificing prophets and saints and so on.
According to Medieval fiction.
The centurion "Longinus" did just that . . .
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: UtnapisjtimAccording to Medieval fiction.
The centurion "Longinus" did just that . . .
I don't recommend putting any stock into such stories.
The Suffering Servant was the "lamb" before its shearers, according to Isaiah.
The prolog of Mark says ". . . as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:".
I think the destruction of USA will occur on 9/16/2016 when the Rapture occurs and the Mayan calendar is completely intercalated. Jesus taught that no man would know the day or hour of His return to Earth because He would cut the Tribulation short for the sake of the elect. BUT, at no point did Jesus prohibit the knowledge of the day and hour of the Resurrection of the Church. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...
originally posted by: Logarock
originally posted by: 3n19m470
I have a hard time "believing" the whole part about if you believe Jesus gave his life for our sins, then that somehow gets you in heaven or is one of the requirements or gets you some bonus points or whatever. Did Jesus say this? Did he say "you have to believe that I, Jesus, gave my life for your sins"? If he didn't say it then... who's making these rules up?
Yes He did....
Mat 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.