THIS IS SPARTA!! No seriously... :)

reply to post by luciddream


Well they actually did happen like in the movie. Of course not in that exact way and form, but the locations, numbers of soldiers were accurate. The betrayal by Ephialtes (which is the actual word for 'nightmare' today in Greece). Even the 'we will fight in the shade' and especially the answer of Leonidas to the order to lay down the weapons, 'come and get them' are in the history books.

reply to post by Hellas


Deadliest warrior Spartan versus Ninja,

Just the actors reenacting a scene but all computer simulations show the elite ninja being beated almost every time.

On that show they when to great pain's with expert's on both group's and analyzing the weapons they had as well as the training, Even the glass powder filled egg the ninja throws into the spartan's eyes would not stop him as he was brutalized to such a degree from childhood a spartan would simple shrug the pain off as it was seen as a weakness, like the modern marines pain is good as it let's you know you are alive.

www.youtube.com...

As far as I remember from what I read a long time ago the typical spartan boy was paired with another boy and they were placed under the tutelage of an old spartan, they would have at one point in there lives to be cast out of the city with no clothing or weapons, it was death to help them but they had to survive in the countryside for a month and wolfes, lions and other animals where then present in greece.
They also had to fight to the death with there partner whom they had sparred with for years so that only one of the two boys if they survived other chalenges went on to be a spartan warrior.

reply to post by LABTECH767


They had to go through all that, plus the hard and constant training. The destiny for the sons was to become a Spartan Warrior. But the last fact you mentioned that they had to fight till death with the other boy, is new to me. I don't think that was the case.

If anybody wants to read a good fictional, yet highly accurate, account of the battle of Thermopylae and the reasons behind it, as well as accurate depictions of the Spartan lifestyle I can highly recommend Steven Pressfield's "gates of fire". If they had made this novel into a movie and not 300 the world would have had a much more accurate view of the whole history of that battle. Go and read it, you wont be disappointed!.
Gates of Fire is on the Commandant of the Marine Corps' Reading list. It is taught at West Point, the United States Naval Academy, and at the Marine Corps Basic School at Quantico.

for more info

a cracked article comparing the real events vs the movie(the first one not the second) but with cracked usual humor tossed in

www.ancientgreekbattles.net... this is another link on Thermopylae but offer's one of the only explanations of the dispute of actual numbers of troops at the battle

Note: Herodotus claims Xerxes had brought 5 million to the battle but this can hardly be true. Believed to be a mistake, Greeks who were use to battles of at most ten thousand had never seen so many people before (Xerxes had brought Asia with him), the claim of 5 million would be like someone today saying 'there was millions of them', a number that is given when you don't really know. Diodorus says that the Persian land army alone was a million men [1]. This web site goes with the idea that Herodotus calculation for the word 'myriad' is the key. In Ancient Greece that word would have meant 10,000 while in the east it meant a fighting force of 1,000. So, while he states 5 million, we believe it closer to 500,000. If his sources were therefore Persian, the mistake would have been made. Any retreived archive records or interigation of prisoners revealing 500 myriad would have caused the confusion.

www.ancientmilitary.com... link about the spartan military and their origins history and tactics


www.youtube.com...


hope people find them interesting

LABTECH767
reply to post by Hellas

 

True but the classical greek's especially the cultured athenians saw the macedonian's as little better than barbarian's though they were greek with a shared culture, Still whom could equal a Spartan.

Oh no sir. No.

Apart from Demosthenes, who hated for personal reasons the Makedonians, and his few followers there are not others in ancient Anthens who believed that the Makedonians were barbarians. In fact, the majority of people liked Makedonians and this was why they signed a peace treaty with Makedonia.

Demosthenes was banned from Athens twice, once in 324 BC and once in 323-322 BC because he was accussed that his political opinions were being guided by money.

You won't find any Greek, who was not accussed and blamed for bribery, who did not like Alexander the 3rd. In fact, Philip and much more his son Alexander had the respect of a "hero". No barbarian was ever loved by the Greeks which can only mean that everyone considered Makedonians as Greeks. Another thing you can see to verify this is the Spartans who made peace treaties only with Greek States. They made an Alliance treaty with Alexander the Great. So this means that the Spartans too considered Makedonians as Greeks.

N.G.L. Hammond has written the great, enormous and true history of the Makedonians in his 7-8 book series. He is a professor of the Cambridge university and his work does not get any objections from the historians globally.

en.wikipedia.org...

He starts his book about "Philip of Macedon" with the words "Philip of Macedon was Greek". Nothing more to say from my side

and i recommend you his series of books about Makedonia. I read them with pleasure.

300 has to be one of my favourite movies and quite acturate as well. I watched the second movie in 3D and loved the way the 2nd movie wrapped itself around the 1st movie.

Done very well, I was not disappointed although the horse riding along the ships was a bit OTT... but then again the whole point of 300 and its sequel is to be OTT

The sex scene in the sequel caught me off guard, i was like ... woah ... there are kids in the audience. Guess thats how spartans rooted in the old days... like spartans! lol

First movie was awesome, 2nd movie is awesome also.
A must see..

reply to post by JesusChristwins


I stand corrected, my appology if my misinformation offended.
Still some very interesting knowledge you have as well.
Phillip was a great king lost in part to history simply by the feat's of his son alexander but he was a brilliant general himself.
What is your thought on alexander's early death and the possability of poisoning, would you blame Roxanne whom may have wanted to avenge her family and Persepolis or his general's the Ptolomies or the Selucid's whom split his empire between them at his death.
I wonder how Alexander would have staged a defence of Thermopylae, or indeed an assault upon an entrenched enemy.
Even today in britain if it is raining hard we say it is pelting down with no knowledge that it originated from the greek peltasts (It probably entered use as a phrase in Britain as a result of victorian or earlier education about classical history) and his use of them masked by his cavalry to take out the persian cavalry.


Oh and as for your avatar name YES HE DOES

reply to post by LABTECH767


I am very pleased to meet people with interest in history in ATS ! Thank you very much for this and your kind words.

I don't like to talk about myself but it is true that i have studied a lot about the ancient Greek history. Alexander was not poisoned nor murdered. In fact, there was no one in his army who would dare to do that. Even the ones who did not like him, respected him like a ancient god. Everyone had blind faith on him and his battle tactics (which are being studied even today!) and much more his own generals.

Ptolemaios or Ptolomies was definitely a person whom Alexander could trust his family. This is why he and no one else took Alexander's dead body. Not even Roxanne! Philip trusted Ptolemies too. They were fighting back to back on the campaign against the tribes of Thrace or the Paionians. I would like to give you a link to a youtube video where a famous archaeologist claims that she found Alexander's the Great tomb in Egypt near the Oracle of Ammon Zeus. Here:




I am really sorry, the video is in Greek and i am sure you won't get anything. But at least you can see the pictures of the tomb it shows to take an idea of it. The archaeologist mentions that the tomb is the greatest, biggest, richest ancient Greek tomb ever found ( with maiandros on it ) and that it was made like the tomb of Philip in Vergina of Greece. What could a Greek tomb do in Egypt? The only explanation that comes to my mind is that the tomb is indeed of a Greek and extremely important person, which means only one thing, "Alexander". I almost never trust or believe something w/o seeing it with my eyes. So in my honeymoon i visited Egypt. I travelled to the Siva's Oasis and i asked the local guides about the tomb. All of them confirmed the sayings of the archaeologist! All 5 of them!!! The local stories talk about Alexander with the greatest words.

As for the reason why that was not revealed to the public? As the archaeologist says, she met the Greek prime minister and foreign minister and told them about her findings. The reply was: "The Greeks must not learn about that as this would rise their pride again"! And you know what? I 100% believe her! Simitis and Pangkalos, the Greek prime minister and foreign minister are traitors and they worked for the secret services of the US and Germany. Simitis brother was director of Germany's secret services and Pangkalos was a close friend of Henry Kissinger! Another fact is that both of them are Jewish, are Zionists! Even today for example, if you give in the search the Jewish name Beny Turkoglou, you will get the picture of Greece's current foreign minister! Things in the Greek politics are so messed up by the US secret services. And unfortunately, as far as i have searched in the last 100 years of Greek history, i can say with 99% certainty that all 300 parliament deputies are traitors. The facts are many and can be easily found. The answer to your question "Why Greeks tolerate this" is the lack of education, the lack of culture. Through the last 100 years the governments have lied to the people, changed the history books in schools filling them with lies and did everything possible to unconnect them from their past. Why? This is NWO's orders. Henry Kissinger said "Greeks must forget their past".

Back to Alexander, this is why you, i in the past and people have so much ignorance about Alexander the Great or Greatest as he is being called by the tribes of Persia and Afghanistan who claim to be descendants of Alexander's army. Did you know that even the Quran of the Muslims talks about Alexander ( it calls him Iskandar)? Did you know it says that Alexander's main reason for the campaign was not to defeat Persia but to fight the tribes of Gog and Magog who lived in the desert Takla Makan in China? And that if you write in the search "Iskandar quran" and you go in the images you get the image below?

upload.wikimedia.org... er_001.jpg

That picture shows Alexander in the yellow suit and his men building a wall to close in the Gog and Magog tribes. The strange thing? The Gog and Magog are not human but they are something else, creatures with human body and head of animals just like the ancient Greek and Egyptian "myths" describe! Coincidences!

The Gog and Magog tribes and the Nephelims are the same "people". The Old Testament names them in its original form as Nephelims. They are supposed to live inside the Hallow Earth and the Quran and other ancient writings say that Alexander went in Takla Makan to defeat them and to close them back in the Hallow Earth and lock in some gates through of them they had come up.

I did not say that! The Ancients, the Quran, Saints of the Orthodox church said these! Yes even Saints! Saint Andrew, the uproar in Christ (that's how the translator translates his name "Άγιος Ανδρέας ο εν Χριστώ σαλός". People called that saint crazy for the way he behaved them, some times heavenly kindly and other times he was sending them away from him. He did it because he didn't want people to call him a saint while he was in life. He did many miracles and people loved him. But because that love could blind him, that pride could bring him to evil, he was appointing them from him after he was giving them his blessings. That very saint made prophecies (i am not going to talk about them) and talked about the past he learnt through Jesus. What the Saint said matches what the ancients wrote about Alexander's true reason for the campaign and what the Quran writes about him. Crazy right? A Saint of Christ says the same with Quran? It is not crazy as Quran does not say anything apart history, only at that part. Saint Andrew said that Alexander fought the Nephelims, defeated them heroically (although that tribes live for thousands of years; imagine the knowledge and experience their warlords had) and after that he locked them into the gates they opened to come up. Saint Andrew also says that Dionysos, the ancient Greek god of wine, and Hercules really existed and that they made similar campaigns against the Gog and Magog tribes who had come back on Earth again.

Those Gog and Magog or Nephelims are also mentioned in the book of Enoh where Enoh says that they came up from the coupling of the fallen angels who followed satan and the women who lived back then on the planet. Saint Andrew also confirms that!


Alexander was not just the greatest leader and warlord every existed. He was also sent by God! Is it a coincidence that through the Greek language that was expanded till India with Alexander's campaign we have today the New Testament? Is it a coincidence that the Greek language helped Christianism to be learnt in every corner of the known world back then? Is it a coincidence that a Saint, a person of God who also made miracles in life talked about Alexander and his great achievements? Is it a coincidence that an 18 years old boy managed to conquer the Persian Empire with just 50k to 100k men and not lose a single battle in his life? Is it a coincidence that these parts of his life, the truth about his death and tomb was hidden by the public? And is it a coincidence that he is the only, ONLY, general who was loved and treated as a hero or living-god by the people who was conquering? He died after the fulfilment of his task, he died at the age of Jesus died. Too many coincidences in this story for me. (Do not please misunderstand me, i do not imply that he was Jesus.)


Anyway, i said a lot As i say in my signature, history can guide us to the truth and history can teach us for the future. Socrates and Hermes the 3 times Great said "One thing i know, that i know nothing". Should you want me to share with you anything more (cause there are a lot more), pm me.

No This is Sparta.
The Spartans were brave but it doesn’t take a tactical genius to stand in one place and die to the last man. I hate to say this but I always finding it amusing when people all are Gung ho on the Spartans and using the quote "Molon labe” meaning "Come and take them" when referring to second amendment rights. People seem to picture the Spartans as some kind of ancient chest thumping icon of manhood and freedom. If a movie was made about the real Sparta it would look like a Gay North Korean Nazi police state.

Sparta was a military Oligarchy, almost bordering on a military dictatorship.
Sparta was the result of a social experiment lead by one man Lycurgus the Law Giver. He pretty much lead a bloodless coup and took over Spartan Society. From there he set up a whole new social structure, took over all land in the name of the state, redistributed wealth, and printed up money made out of cheap metal that was worthless outside of Sparta. He created a eugenics program to only breed healthy children and instituted wife swapping to further that goal.
All for one and one for all literally. Children were the property of the State.
If your child was healthy it was taken from you to be raised by another family. If your child was not healthy or weak into the pit of Apothetae it went.

“In a word, he trained his fellow-citizens to have neither the wish nor the ability to live for themselves; but like bees they were to make themselves always integral parts of the whole community, clustering together about their leader, almost beside themselves with enthusiasm and noble ambition, and to belong wholly to their country.” 2

The Ruling class of males were the original 1 percenters with the majority of power being held by a few ruling families.
Lycurgus created the Gerousia.
The Gerousia was council of rich older men, over 60 years old who were voted in for life.
(Sounds a lot like the U.S. Senate)
"Theoretically, any Spartan citizen of the appropriate age could stand, but in practice members were selected from the most important aristocratic families. While elections to the Gerousia were technically democratic, contemporary writers (such as the Stagirite philosopher Aristotle) considered the fairness of the elections to be dubious at best" 1

The Spartan men spent their days training and hunting. All the farm work was done by the lower class of slaves, the Helots, who had no property and few rights. The Helots outnumbered the Spartans by almost 20 to 1. Any revolt by the helots was put down quite easily by the Spartans who had the military hardware and training to do it. Remember a spear, helmet and armor and a shield was an expensive undertaking at the time, only the upper wealthy class could afford it.
And Spartan Soldiers were expected to provide their own.
Image being asked to join the army and bring your own Tank.
Thus the lower class Helots may have had access to farm tools but anything serious like spears and armor was out of their reach.
No Assault spears for you peons. The Spartans practiced strict arms control.
For the Helots the couldn't say “Molon labe”. They can't take it if you don't have it in the first place.

Oddly enough the Spartans didn't walk around in full armor and swords on their hips.
That was considered downright rude and uncivilized.
The didn't need weapons in the city, they had their own Secret Police, the Krupteia.
The Krupteia went around killing Helots inn the dark at random just to keep them in line.
That helped keep things calm in town.

The other thing people forget about the Spartans and Greek society at the time was concept of what modern society terms as “Homosexuality”.
I put the terms in quotes because in ancient Greek the idea of homosexuality really didn't exist.
In Sparta men had male lovers and women were for making babies. It was Ok for women to have lovers of the same sex also. But It was expected of men and women to cast aside their lovers and eventually marry to create children for the state. If they failed to do so and kept literally screwing around with their battle buddy they were shirking their duty to the state to produce healthy children. The Spartans only frowned upon the idea of lovers serving together next to each other in battle.
Once you got older it was ok if you had a “Younger” pupil that you were helping “tutor”
Younger meaning 12 or so.

So every time I see a redneck with a Molon Labe t-shirt I just have to grin and wonder if they really know who they are quoting.


refrences:
1. Cartledge, Paul. The Spartans: The World of the Warrior-Heroes of Ancient Greece. 2003. Vintage Books.
2. The Life of Lycurgus
penelope.uchicago.edu...*.html

templar knight
Much of the commentary in the film, despite its OTT was straight from Herodutus Histories.

Interesting to think that some consider troy to be in the u.k you just never know same with Herodotus

www.troy-in-england.co.uk...

reply to post by 999zxcv


You are correct as there are indeed some whom believe that, but they are missinterpreting a lot of data, there may have been entire chapters of British history in the bronze age that have been lost but Heinrich Schliemann did find troy were the greek story's place it.
www.britannica.com...
www.historywiz.com...
www.cerhas.uc.edu...
www.historywiz.com...
www.troyproject.com...
There have been found written stone tablet's in cuniform from the Hittite empire to whom it seem's that Troy was actually a vassel state and it was located between the Hittite empire to the east and the Mycenean Greek's to the west, one appears very late toward the end of the hittite empire to be a request for military aid so was the fall of troy contemporaneous to that, like Later Constantinople it controlled the strait's and trade through them and so was a very wealthy city, the site has been built upon several time's with Romans and Greek's as well as later city's on the same site built one atop another, even schliemann's troy was atop earlier ruin's, Also King Midas of greek myth was also a probably real figure, his civilisation was the Phrygian civilization and was possible more advanced then the contempory greek culture of his day whom remembed it for it's wealth and invented the story of the man with the golden touch.
www.ancient.eu.com...

It is more than possible that there were ancient links to these far off cultures which spanned the entire mediteranean and as most of the ancient world's Tin (essential for the making of bronze) came from Britain they would have been at least aware of the british isles and at most even had colonys or trading posts/trading relationships with the british city states which we today call tribes but lived in the great hill fort's whose weathered ruins are more numerous even than the official estimate with new ones being periodically identified or at least suspected, sometimes the Normans whom often reused the sites as had others before them ruined the earlier archeology with there mott and bailey's.

What we know of the celt's of Britain is very little but the romans speak of the british druids as wise men of great learning, also of them tripping over the white dresses as they ran to escape the vengeful romans whom put down the northern rebellion at anglesy.

Though Boudicca lost in her fight in the southern rebellion which happened at the same time, the british war chariot's of the celt's struck terror into the romans and you can imagine the sight of a hundred chariots rolling down a hill forts ramparts with there horses at full gallop and there warrior hurling spears or shooting bow's in one of the many wars between the British city states before the Roman conquest.

There is evidence that greek, pheonician and perhaps before them Trojan ships visited these shores but more intriguing is the claim of an ancient connection to Egypt though that could be explained by scholars among the druids going there or even scholars among the egyptians coming here.

Some of these following tales are fringe which means believe at your own discretion.
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
members.iimetro.com.au...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.sacredconnections.co.uk...

Some of the information they provide is merely from some author or other whom simply wanted to sell book's but in some cased the information is interesting and possible accurate.

Other than ancient Trojans the network of trade is as old as the human race and if there is a market there will likely be a seller.

It would be interesting to wonder if the legendary Y's or Lioness were possible bronze age trading ports or colonies of one of these ancient cultures but since they remain legend and have never been found we can only draw speculation on the "what if they were real".

Ultimately though we simply do not really know but for the assumption of those whom dig and provide the only evidence we have.

Just thought I would add this, some game modders for the RPG Skyrim made a machinima version of the film the 300,
www.youtube.com...
It is actually really good considering.

Reinmax
300 has to be one of my favourite movies and quite acturate as well.

If its accurate in the same way that for example The Last Action Hero accurately depict the every day life of Arnold Schwarzenegger, then yes I agree. 300 is quite accurate.

merka

Reinmax
300 has to be one of my favourite movies and quite acturate as well.

If its accurate in the same way that for example The Last Action Hero accurately depict the every day life of Arnold Schwarzenegger, then yes I agree. 300 is quite accurate.

Educate yourself. It will spare you from such embarrassing posts.

reply to post by JesusChristwins


Very interesting perspective and this is new to me but yes the greek language was truly instrumental in the spread of chrisitanity, in the time of christ many jew's lived in greece and greek's lived in Palestine, remember the history we were tought was that Alexander placed a statue of zeus in the holy of holy's (which was empty since the ark had been hidden by the prophet jeremiah and the priests possibly in deep caves not fully explored under the temple mount, a man called ron wyatte may have found it, read up on the story as it seem's that the israeli authority's may have sealed his dig site.), but nevertheless Zeus was the high god but remember the Yahwey had been technically and ideologically at religous war for the soul of the isrealites with El the high god of the cananite's, Yahwey's pantheon (if there is one other them the archangels and we would blaspheme if we called them god's) is not named but remember in the exodus he tell's moses "I made you a god but you shall die", Ambrosia has similaritys to the tree and waters of life which St John of patmos had visions of and when christ healed a man whom had been born blind without eye's by taking mud in his hand (as if to complete an unfinished work) and spitting in it to form the mud which he then held to the blind man before taking his hand away revealing the blind man had eye's, he asked him "What do you see", the blind man now seeing better than you or I then said "Men as tree's walking", now to a person whom know's Zeus was supposed to have made men from Tree's this is interesting as an example, he then touched the man again and he could then only see people as people, after all seeing too much before he was ready would have made the man's life unbearable.
The greek's were copied by the Romans in this but accepted other people god's as aspect's of there own and then simply regarded them as names for there god's elsewere so Alexanders' blasphemy at the temple was not what it seemed as he placed the god he assumed should be there in that place and if looked at in that light is more interesting.
I do believe the greek politicians in many instances are not good and are only looking after number (but some may truly be trying there best) one but in that they are simply typical politicians and the sooner the human race gets rid of politicians the better in general but the jewish link is not really relevant as they are merely people like any other people in that they are only human and good and bad exists everywere.
I am not young and have met good jew's and bad one's (solicitors) but though I am definitely a christian I am part jew in my maternal ancestry so maybe My opinion is skewed slightly in that except where there reprehensible conduct with innocent palestinians, peace activists and isreali Christians is concerned but I can understand there need to ensure there national security but ultimately it is a clash or religions and people on both sides of that divide are willing to die for there religion (for me though until they embrace christ I can not truly defend them and over a thousand years of being murdered for not converting or ostrecized by there own if they did has placed a very large cultural block in place there (though solicitors, lawyers, politicians and bankers I have no pity for no matter what religion though even among such as these there are sometime's good people).
Ultimately I believe people should enjoy religous freedom but sometimes those differenced inherent in not only the religion or it's beliefs but it's traditions and the often seen as blasphemous difference between them make that a non workable dream.

reply to post by Hellas


I would say 300 is as accurate in the portrayal of Greek and more specifically Spartan History as Braveheart was to Scottish History. Both were holywood portrayals of real events and both were very very flawed in that portrayal. Put simply the stories and visuals in both movies were twisted to fit a modern mind and cinematic tastes.

avriel
reply to post by Hellas

 

I would say 300 is as accurate in the portrayal of Greek and more specifically Spartan History as Braveheart was to Scottish History. Both were holywood portrayals of real events and both were very very flawed in that portrayal. Put simply the stories and visuals in both movies were twisted to fit a modern mind and cinematic tastes.

But if Braveheart would have had the same fictional design as 300, he would have actually shot fireballs out of his eyeballs and lightning bolts out of his arse.

I know that the battle did take place but it cant really be compared to Braveheart because Braveheart was still directed within certain limitations of historical accuracy throughout the movie. You're not going to see the Loch Ness monster helping the Scottish to fight the English even if that would have been awesome. Especially in slowmo.

But hey, maybe Jason And The Argonauts was an accurate historical portrayal too.

reply to post by LABTECH767


I could agree with your sayings at some point.

Just to clear something up, i don't have problems with Jewish people, i have problem with Zionists and as Zionists i call the people behind NWO like rockfeller and rothschild. What i said was that the Greek politicians since 1833 till today were following blindly the orders of the Zionists (who call themselves Jewish) and that some of today's politicians have family relationships with those Zionists.

As for what you said above about Troy in England, there are people in Greece who clain that Greeks were immigrated to England at the time when the Trojan War happened. You know, so far wit i have from close friends who are archaeologists and historians i did not pay much attention to that theory. But now that i see it written from a person who lives in Great Britain, i don't know, maybe their story was indeed real. They called England as "HyperNorthern Greece" and they claimed that they had read it on ancient vessels and texts they had found. Of course, as they never shown their facts ( i say they cause i have personally met a couple of people who belong in the historical team who made up that theory), i never believed them so far. But seriously, now i don't know what to believe?

I knew that Odysseus had really gone out of Gibraltar until the Amazon and that most of modern historians were either dump or liars when they were saying that Odysseus never went out of the Mediterranean Sea. Just as dump as the historians who claimed that Herodotus was too much with his numbers about the Persian army.

After reading that and seeing your links, i will honestly do a deep search about the Trojan War. You made me have doubts about what i know so far

As soon as Themistocles "took a shine" to his friends young son I knew the writers were going for the pink dollar.
The resentful sex with the evil women, the permanent almost gimp like faithfulness of his lieutenant, the constant heroic references to Themi not having a girlfriend it had it all.

I enjoyed the original 300 for what it was ...a stupid but visually stunning movie meant to make people feel brave in the face of "terror" but this sequel came across as a kitsch tongue in cheek affair that screamed fanboy TRAP in a high pitched voice whilst waving it's handbag at you.