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Russia or Ukraine? Crimean Tatars consider their own vote

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posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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Russia or Ukraine? Crimean Tatars consider their own vote


Tue, Mar 25 13:21 PM EDT

By Gabriela Baczynska

SIMFEROPOL, Crimea (Reuters) - Crimea's indigenous Tatars are considering their own referendum on whether to be part of Ukraine or Russia, the leader of the Muslim minority said on Tuesday, in a challenge to Moscow that could further destabilize the region.

Refat Chubarov, the head of the Crimean Tatars' main assembly, told Reuters that the body's 250 members would meet on Saturday to debate the future of the 300,000-strong community in the wake of Russia's annexation of Crimea.

"In the space of three weeks we've found ourselves in a completely different de facto situation," Chubarov said in an interview. "The Crimean Tatars should determine their fate themselves."

"Nobody asked us, the Crimean Tatars ... in what conditions we want to live," he said. "Should the question feature prominently during the meeting, we will seek options of holding our own referendum."

Crimean Tatars are deeply suspicious of Russian rule following the mass deportation of their ancestors to Central Asia by Soviet authorities in 1944.

Sunni Muslims of Turkic origin, the Tatars began returning to Crimea some two decades ago and now make up less than 15 percent of the peninsula's roughly 2 million people, pledging loyalty to Ukraine.

The new Moscow-backed authorities of Crimea, which has a narrow ethnic Russian majority, are unlikely to look favourably on any challenge from within to the peninsula's vote this month to join Russia.

Chubarov dismissed the hastily organised March 16 referendum, largely boycotted by Tatars, saying it was held at gunpoint under the gaze of Russian soldiers.

In annexing Crimea, Moscow cited the right of its people to self-determination. Chubarov, a historian by education, said the same should apply to the Tatars.


Click link for remainder of article...

I would fully support this vote and I have to agree with the thought process... If Russia is all about the peoples right to self-determination, then that option should be granted to the original ethnic groups living in Crimea before the Russian invasion.

To oppress or not to oppress... That is the question that pre-occupies Putin's mind....

Karma can be awesome at times...

edit on 26-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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There is a little slinger island of land to the north east of Crimea, they could give them that.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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kathat
There is a little slinger island of land to the north east of Crimea, they could give them that.


Ok... Any particular reason the Tartars should not be allowed to hold a referendum vote? Any particular reason they should not be allowed to live on their property in their own independent section of Crimea?

Or does the referendum and right to self determination only apply to ethnic Russians? By extension the Russians could have always moved to the island as you suggested.

Why is that not a viable alternative for the RussianS?
edit on 26-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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Xcathdra
If Russia is all about the peoples right to self-determination, then that option should be granted to the original ethnic groups living in Crimea before the Russian invasion.


So the US will be giving Native Americans a chance to vote as well?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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Xcathdra

kathat
There is a little slinger island of land to the north east of Crimea, they could give them that.


Ok... Any particular reason the Tartars should not be allowed to hold a referendum vote? Any particular reason they should not be allowed to live on their property in their own independent section of Crimea?

Or does the referendum and right to self determination only apply to ethnic Russians?


None at all, they can do as they please, I honestly don't care who votes and declares independance. This vote does not affect me so why would I stick my nose into something that doesn't concern me?

Or maybe that is not the response you expected or wanted. *shrugs*

edit on 26-3-2014 by kathat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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peck420

Xcathdra
If Russia is all about the peoples right to self-determination, then that option should be granted to the original ethnic groups living in Crimea before the Russian invasion.


So the US will be giving Native Americans a chance to vote as well?



Sure... and if you did some more research you would know Indian Nations in the US are sovereign and have their own set of laws and representation. They have their own infrastructure, schooling, laws etc...

Back to the question though - Why is this not a viable alternative from Tartars in Crimea?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:51 PM
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kathat

Xcathdra

kathat
There is a little slinger island of land to the north east of Crimea, they could give them that.


Ok... Any particular reason the Tartars should not be allowed to hold a referendum vote? Any particular reason they should not be allowed to live on their property in their own independent section of Crimea?

Or does the referendum and right to self determination only apply to ethnic Russians?


None at all, they can do as they please, I honestly don't care who votes and declares independance. This vote does not affect me so why would I stick my nose into something that doesn't concern me?


edit on 26-3-2014 by kathat because: (no reason given)


You commented in the thread and put forth a possibility. I assumed you wanted to engage in the conversation and explore this possibility. I didn't realize you just wanted to comment on where to illegally ship the Tartars.

Why is your plan not a viable alternative for Russians?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:53 PM
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Xcathdra

kathat

Xcathdra

kathat
There is a little slinger island of land to the north east of Crimea, they could give them that.


Ok... Any particular reason the Tartars should not be allowed to hold a referendum vote? Any particular reason they should not be allowed to live on their property in their own independent section of Crimea?

Or does the referendum and right to self determination only apply to ethnic Russians?


None at all, they can do as they please, I honestly don't care who votes and declares independance. This vote does not affect me so why would I stick my nose into something that doesn't concern me?


edit on 26-3-2014 by kathat because: (no reason given)


You commented in the thread and put forth a possibility. I assumed you wanted to engage in the conversation and explore this possibility. I didn't realize you just wanted to comment on where to illegally ship the Tartars.

Why is your plan not a viable alternative for Russians?


Why would I start dictating what the people of Crimea and Russia do? I don't live there nor does their decision affect me.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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Xcathdra
Back to the question though - Why is this not a viable alternative from Tartars in Crimea?

The same reason the US won't cede Native American lands.

If you really wish to play this game, let's just skip a bunch of steps and turn it over to the Greeks.
edit on 26-3-2014 by peck420 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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peck420

Xcathdra
Back to the question though - Why is this not a viable alternative from Tartars in Crimea?

The same reason the US won't cede Native American lands.


They have... Check with the Bureau of Indian affairs...

Do you think Tartars should be allowed to hold their own referendum and to from an independent nation on land in Crimea?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



edit on 26-3-2014 by angelchemuel because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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Xcathdra
Do you think Tartars should be allowed to hold their own referendum and to from an independent nation on land in Crimea?


See above.

The Tartars are no more 'ethnic' to the region then the Ukrainians or the Russians. All of them are transplants from previous conquests.

So, let's just cut to the chase and give it to the first colonists...of which only the Greeks remain.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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peck420

Xcathdra
Do you think Tartars should be allowed to hold their own referendum and to from an independent nation on land in Crimea?


See above.

The Tartars are no more 'ethnic' to the region then the Ukrainians or the Russians. All of them are transplants from previous conquests.

So, let's just cut to the chase and give it to the first colonists...of which only the Greeks remain.


Please answer the question...

Do you think, based on Putin's arguments about ethnic people and self determination, that Tartars should be allowed to hold a referendum and establish their own nation on Crimea?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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Well this could be interesting, but I have to ask, what would this even matter at this point? If Crimea is Russian now, where would they go? Would they move to Ukraine? I'm pretty certain where they'd get the fairer shake and how they'd vote.

They boycotted the "official" vote (and so probably did a lot of ethnic Ukrainians), for a variety of reasons), so why do this now when it seemingly won't make a bit of difference? Just to see what the allegedly misleadingly reported results may have swayed one way or another?

Isn't it too late? It might make a difference if the illegality of this is settled, or if there is some sort of compromise on the horizon.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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Xcathdra
Do you think, based on Putin's arguments about ethnic people and self determination, that Tartars should be allowed to hold a referendum and establish their own nation on Crimea?

Would I let them have their referendum? Yup.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


I think the timing is perfect... They very reasons Putin used to justify his actions in Crimea while commenting time and again about indigenousness people and self determination..

It goes to the position I've held towards Putin's statements, in that they are only for show in an effort to sound legitimate. If he truly believes his position, then there should be no reason Tartars cannot hold a referendum.

If its denied, how would Putin explain it?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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Xcathdra
They have... Check with the Bureau of Indian affairs...


Nice dodge. Reserves are what is left of their land, not their land.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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peck420

Xcathdra
They have... Check with the Bureau of Indian affairs...


Nice dodge. Reserves are what is left of their land, not their land.


then start your own thread dealing with the plight of Native Americans. This thread is about Crimea, Tartars and a right of self determination via referendum.




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