Crimea crisis: Putin adviser proposes division of Ukraine along Nazi-Soviet lines and says it's 'n

Crimea crisis: Putin adviser proposes division of Ukraine along Nazi-Soviet lines and says it's 'never too late to correct historical errors'

A prominent political ally and advisor to Vladimir Putin has proposed splitting up Ukraine along the lines of an historical pact agreed between the Nazis and Soviet Union.

Vladimir Zhirinovsky, widely regarded as a mouthpiece for the Russian president, proposed a redrawing of the borders of western Ukraine - which would involve regions being incorporated into the territories of Poland, Romania and Hungary.

He appeared to have written the letter in the days after Russia itself annexed the Crimea region of Ukraine last week, and suggested further referendums could be held to see further territory break away from Kiev.

Zhirinovsky wrote: “It's never too late to correct historical errors.”

The politician is the deputy speaker of the Duma, and his nationalist Liberal Democratic party largely backs President Vladimir Putin in the Russian parliament.

Sergei Sobolev, head of Ukraine's largest parliamentary faction, the Fatherland party, called him a “provocateur”.

“But Zhirinovsky often is the voice of Putin,” he added.

Zhirinovsky's letter, seen by Reuters, suggested Poland, Hungary and Romania, who are now in the European Union, might wish to take back regions which he said were in the past their territories.

Click link for remainder of article...

Aggressive actions towards Estonia... Military buildup continues on the border with Ukraine... Russian military units in the breakaway province in Moldova undergoing "training exercises".

Anyone want to make a wager on how long it will be before Putin is removed?

Anyone else want to try and make the argument actions being taken by Putin don't correlate with Nazi German planning from WWII?

reply to post by Xcathdra

Anyone else want to try and make the argument actions being taken by Putin don't correlate with Nazi German planning from WWII?

Can you please put forward any correlations that do?

I should say that I personaly do not see it, so your obviously insightful knowledge of history would be a great help.

Nice piece of Western Propaganda.Nothing but a Nazi slander campainge.Were is the copy of the letter being cited as evidence? And even then it would be only one man's opinon.Let's keep it factual.

reply to post by 13th Zodiac


One man who has Putin's ear...

I agree though, Let Putin's mouth piece spew his garbage...

Anyone else want to try and make the argument actions being taken by Putin don't correlate with Nazi German planning from WWII?

Not sure I understand your question.

The non aggression pact gave the Soviet Union the eastern half of Poland, along with Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. Those boarders were redrawn after the war ended.

Is that what you are saying Putin is suggesting.

reply to post by spooky24


I think Putin simply wants the people of these countries to determine their own fate. It's the West that doesn't want them to be enabled. Putin knows the hearts of the people belong to Russia, not the West, and as such he will protect them. The Christian and American ideals i grew up makes me want to side with Putin on this one. We really have no right to override the will of the people halfway around the world.

sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by spooky24

 

I think Putin simply wants the people of these countries to determine their own fate.

Except for Chechnya though right?

13th Zodiac
Nice piece of Western Propaganda.Nothing but a Nazi slander campainge.Were is the copy of the letter being cited as evidence? And even then it would be only one man's opinon.Let's keep it factual.

Its right next to the unsigned letter the Russian foreign minister stated came from former President Yanukovych that was mentioned and never produced.

As for Nazi slander campaign its not my fault that people who don't know their history are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between the war plans Nazi Germany used for their war and the atrocities they committed. Even more so since Putin is using the same methods.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Chechnya isnt really within the scope of your OP though is it?

Anyway here is a fairly condensed yet precise history of Hitler's rise to power from the BBC. Its mostly aimed at school kids, but it may help you find some parallels between Putin and the rise of the Nazi party.

Im still kinda struggling to see any paralells between the two, but you never know!

that people who don't know their history are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between the war plans Nazi Germany used for their war and the atrocities they committed. Even more so since Putin is using the same methods.

lol.

Russia's military deployment and strategic placement is the one reason I will not totally discount the possibility of them seizing new territory. I have stated many times how I believe that Russia's aggression will end with Crimea, considering they are mainly wanting to protect this strategic position which is important to their military. But statements like this one, along with the obvious shifting of military resources, does make me think twice.

Bellor
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Chechnya isnt really within the scope of your OP though is it?

Sure.. If someone is going to make a claim about Russia and how its wanting nothing but the best for an indigenous people, declaring to the world that people have a right to break free of the country they are in, then Chechnya is very much in play and fits into the subject matter.

In a (west) legal area the term is called impeaching a witness. Its when a person / witness makes a claim and its demonstrated that the credibility of the person making the claim can be called into question.

An example would be Russia telling the world people have a right to hold a referendum and to exercise self governance, except when it comes to Chechnya.

I can see why you don't want it brought it. Its not something you or anyone else has been able to explain as to why its different for them. My money is on the fact you and others will do whatever possible to ignore those pesky facts that undermines the Russian position.

JiggyPotamus
Russia's military deployment and strategic placement is the one reason I will not totally discount the possibility of them seizing new territory. I have stated many times how I believe that Russia's aggression will end with Crimea, considering they are mainly wanting to protect this strategic position which is important to their military. But statements like this one, along with the obvious shifting of military resources, does make me think twice.

That's one of the reasons I don't think they are done. Putin spent a lot of time making his case to the world about protecting ethnic Russians and went even further defending the referendum. He cant make those claims, while discussing the collapse of the Soviet Union being illegal, and only stop with Crimea.

I think people either overlook that issue or they don't see it as a problem.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Anyone want to make a wager on how long it will be before Putin is removed?

Sure.. I'll take "End of the War" for $100. That is, if Russia loses it.... (heavy sigh)

It's starting to look like hope is a fools game for thinking he'd take what had some logic to it and turn from the rest which temptation leaves open now.

Time for some folks to earn those Peace prizes with leadership. A whole lot of them.

Bellor
Can you please put forward any correlations that do?

Specifically with just the OP Russia and Germany did the same thing at the start of WWII. They divided up not only Poland, but designated which countries would fall within each nations zone.

Prior to Germany abrogating their treaty with the Soviet Union, part of Poland in addition to the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) were all left to the Soviets.

Over all -
The Soviet Union was almost nearly as bad when it came to atrocities, specifically how they treated the populations under their control during as well as after the war.

* - Kaliningrad was originally German. After the war it went to the Soviets, where Stalin (like he did in Ukraine) evicted the indigenous people and resettled Russians in their place.

* - Germany had a habit of establishing treaties to secure their interests in the short term, allowing them to deal with them at a later day, just as Russia has done with Ukraine and the central Asian former SSR's.

* - Putin stated he reserved the right to militarily intervene when "ethnic Russians" are in danger. Hitler stated the same thing about Ethnic Germans.

* - Russian action in Crimea, using the excuse above, was the same method Germany used with regards to the Sudentland.

* - After the Sudentland was absorbed by Germany, the remainder of Czechoslovakia soon followed. The same is being seen in Ukraine with Russian increasing their military deployments along the East and Southern border of Ukraine.

* - The same method is occurring in Moldova.

The op article echoed the foreign policy of Nazi Germany - IE making deals with neighboring countries to divide the land of that country between them. Russia is suggesting to break Ukraine up by bringing in ancient claims made by surrounding nations (Poland, Romania etc etc).

IF those countries accepted, and Ukraine were to fall, it would place the Russian borders on those nations, where again Russia has the ability to go down the "ethnic Russian" protection road on them.

They are doing the same towards the Baltic states, talking about the large Ethnic Russia population in them.

If Russia does not want NATO on their doorsteps, then maybe Russia should stop acting like Hitler. 2 World Wars, the cold war and over 50 years of Soviet occupation. Those former SSR's aren't going to go quietly this time around should Russia continue with their sharks and jets routine on the world stage.

sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by spooky24

 

I think Putin simply wants the people of these countries to determine their own fate. It's the West that doesn't want them to be enabled. Putin knows the hearts of the people belong to Russia, not the West, and as such he will protect them

What like the hundreds of Russian speaking Ukrainians decided for themselves before being invaded by Putlers masked mob?




If Putler really wanted the people to determine there own future he wouldn't have needed to occupy Ukraine with troops

So I guess that's your BS excuse out the window

Specifically, NO!

www.youtube.com...

Above is a history of Crimea that I am still finishing to understand. Balaclava is a question.... Would you folks down there like to end up like that? Oh... Vlad paid you to go there and inflate the vote. Yeah, he did that to Ukraine too. Criminals or Communists? What choice is that?

Wow, Turkey has its problems, but what importance is the Black Sea when you are losing your ONLY Mediterranean port? If the West wanted Vlad done, Syria would already be over.

Who is between Russia and Syria? Production on pipes can go both ways buddy.

And a solely built "Russian Pipeline.." ? How is that going work? Bleed bitch, because the bankers have you too.

I recommend the OP edit and amend the threads title to "FORMER Ukraine", because it is never going to be that way ever again!

I may not like that fact, but it is how things stand right now!

From another thread...

When it comes to governmental and military alliances, there are no allies to the people of this country or any country. Only enemies of mankind.

Furthermore, (before I begin, I want to make it abundantly clear that I do NOT characterize Russia as the protagonist in this situation) you really think this is anything more than a publicity stunt, a charade? People, humanity, we've been being divided and conquered since the Middle-Ages, based on our religious backgrounds, our ethnicities, our nationalities, and we continue to blindly follow these rulers' orders to die. IF SOMEONE CAME UP TO YOU AND ASKED YOU TO DIE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY? You'd tell them to get lost, would you NOT? The rich send the poor to die for their own personal gain. Who is losing this battle? Is it the Russians, Ukrainians, Americans, or is it their leaders? ... You have to take into consideration the possibility that Putin, Merkel, Obama, all of these world leaders are working together with considerable financial assets behind closed doors beyond the prying eyes of the public, to mislead and divide and conquer us. It's like a reality TV show, only PEOPLE DIE for real. One plays the bad guy and then we have the guy we all cheer for that is the protagonist.
WAKE UP.

en.wikipedia.org...



en.wikipedia.org...



Following the source deeper:



The Svoboda Party is the second largest in the Yatsenyuk government.
Guess what their platform is:

en.wikipedia.org...

The All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" (Ukrainian: Всеукраїнське об’єднання «Свобода», Vseukrayinske obyednannia "Svoboda"), translated as Freedom, is a Ukrainian nationalist political party,[2] and currently one of the five major parties of the country.[9] Five members of the party hold positions in Ukraine's government.

Yes, the U.S. and EU are behind this party's rise to power... (con't in next post).

I read as far as this "Vladimir Zhirinovsky"..then I stopped.

This man is a basket case and will be in no way linked to
Putin.. As far as I know Putin is still sane!

Vladimir Zhirinovsky is not!

13th Zodiac
Nice piece of Western Propaganda.Nothing but a Nazi slander campainge.Were is the copy of the letter being cited as evidence? And even then it would be only one man's opinon.Let's keep it factual.

I have to agree i have seen more desperate Propaganda from the Guardian and BBC.