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Skeptics: Do you want to be alone in the Universe?

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posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:30 AM
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No, I don't want to be alone in the Universe, (on this planet maybe, but not in the universe) and I doubt that we are alone in the universe, or even in our own galaxy.

But do you know why I'm a skeptic?

Cause I need real, tangible evidence. I need an alien to be interviewed, I need to be able to see that alien's dna sequence, I want to see what kind of ship he flys. I want to see something besides blurry footage, or rehashed conspiracies.

This isn't religion, faith doesn't cut it. This is exobiology. It's a science. science requires fact, not bull dunk.

I believe there is life outside our own solar system. For it to go beyond belief to fact. I have to see with my own eyes, said aliens, and for UFO's to be real, I have to see one of those too. Not in the sky, but on the ground. Real physical evidence.




posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:47 AM
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As evidence we have:

Sumerian text acknowledging "Gods/Annunaki" and their offspring
Testimony from numerous abductees and UFO observers
Egyptian Book Of The Dead
Translation of ancient relics such as the CDT Plates detailing galactic history
The Urantia Book
Occasional leaks of info...the most recent coming from Prime Minister Medvedev
The Terra Papers
Unexplained phonomena such as crop circles/pyramid construction
The RA Material
Whistle blowers such as William Cooper who had gov. connections
The Book of Enoch
Revelations written and told by participants in projects such as Montauk
The Roswell papers
Respected contactees/channelers such as Alex Collier
The Emerald Tablets of Thoth
A multitude of books written on the subject FOR FREE



Now one may argue the authenticity of some of these sources but they all share a common element: the existence of ETs, their visitation and the reasons for secrecy. To deny the validity of all these sources as a whole and not take all of the info into perspective while using discernment, inner resonance, and critical thinking is asinine. If one is able to use those tools efficiently then a clearer picture is painted and once enough dots have been connected, everything begins to make sense.

However, I understand that some people will still need POTUS or someone of equal significance to interrupt their "regularly scheduled programming" and break the news before they are convinced. For me it isn't necessary.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 12:03 PM
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amazing
There is a poster on this thread that is telling me that it is impossible for Aliens to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. How is that open minded and skeptical, by your definition? Is that not as close minded as the believer?

That, is the problem. Minds are closed and belief systems are in place before investigation and analysis of data.


Except I never did. I said it was pretty impossible. Same way it's pretty inevitable life is out there due to Fermi/Drake. The variable making it possible here is time. This is how mathematical probabilities work. If there's a one in a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion.... chance of something happening it's pretty safe to say it won't happen, no? But give it a trillion, trillion, trillion... goes and it's likely to happen.

Actually I was a believer it could happen before looking through the data and I'm mote than happy to reanalyze if new findings come to light, so I fail to see how I'm meant to be close minded on the subject. Please explain?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 12:14 PM
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game over man

... [snip]

14. I do not jump, but rather lean to conclusions based upon all the available information.

15. I agree we do not have any evidence of ET visitation, however this does not change my instinct, which is swayed by the above links and other closely related subject material.
edit on 25-3-2014 by game over man because: (no reason given)


That's fine. I don't jump to conclusions, either. I have looked at the evidence carefully and have personally concluded that life may be abundant in the universe...
...HOWEVER my personal conclusions are not necessarily the truth of the matter or the or reality of the situation.

Sure, based on the evidence at hand (the vastness of the universe, plus what we know about the veracity of life on Earth), I think there is other life in our own galaxy. However, I could be wrong. I will remain skeptical (i.e., leave my mind open to the remote possibility that we are alone) until I have hard evidence/proof that we are not alone.


edit on 3/26/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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bastion

amazing
There is a poster on this thread that is telling me that it is impossible for Aliens to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. How is that open minded and skeptical, by your definition? Is that not as close minded as the believer?

That, is the problem. Minds are closed and belief systems are in place before investigation and analysis of data.


Except I never did. I said it was pretty impossible. Same way it's pretty inevitable life is out there due to Fermi/Drake. The variable making it possible here is time. This is how mathematical probabilities work. If there's a one in a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion.... chance of something happening it's pretty safe to say it won't happen, no? But give it a trillion, trillion, trillion... goes and it's likely to happen.

Actually I was a believer it could happen before looking through the data and I'm mote than happy to reanalyze if new findings come to light, so I fail to see how I'm meant to be close minded on the subject. Please explain?



Good reply and I do understand what you are saying and why we are at odds on this discussion. I'm not always good at putting my thoughts in a clear and concise way.

I think I disagree with you when you say "it's pretty impossible". I understand that you are saying there is a possibility and that you are being skeptical and open minded to a degree. I just think that the meaning of ‘pretty impossible’ or ‘very, very unlikely’ puts you on clearly on one side of the fence in your belief system and that it's not completely open minded and furthermore that it is only a theory. What I say below might put me on the other side of the fence, but I don’t think it makes any less sense than your view and I don’t think it puts me in the true believer category. I just want to show that both of our views could be correct and that I don’t want you to assume that your view is more scientifically valid than mine. It is not.

As the data is not conclusive on how many galaxies are out there, how many stars/suns, how many solar systems, how many planets are out there in the habitable zone, and the dates/timeframes that some of these planets formed we are left with only mathematical probabilities, hypothesis and theories at the moment. Heck, we even know that we can only view a small part of the Universe. There is so much more out there that we can’t even see or view yet.

We can theorize that there are advanced/evolved life forms out there. There is some pretty strong scientific consensus on that theory. We don't know how far advanced some of those alien life forms could have evolved ahead of ours and we don't know how much further advanced a civilization would need to be to make us seem as Neanderthals. Is that time frame a 1000, 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000, 100,000,000 or 1,000,000,000 years?

So my theory is thus:

There is compelling evidence that Aliens have visited earth either in the near or far past, although much of that is circumstantial, eyewitness and or blurred/obfuscated by government and military need to cover up secret programs, aircraft and operations. All we can do is keep looking at data as it comes in. I’m completely open to the opposite view that we have never been visited by Alien beings and that all of this ‘evidence’ can be explained away, but that entails a case by case study of each incident or piece of evidence and that each case needs to be weighed on its own merits and not lumped into easy categorization.

Furthermore, I believe that there is the possibility that there may have been an ancient civilization on Mars perhaps millions of years in the past and that some of the anomalies we see on Mars should be looked at with an archeological eye. Hard to weigh against periodilia (spelling) , I realize. Again the real possibility that there has never been more than simple life forms on Mars must be considered.

Thirdly, I suggest that whether we have ever been visited by ET now or in the past or not, the real possibility of that exists. I base that theory on the following. The number of galaxies in the Universe, the number of stars and or solar systems in those galaxies, the number of planets in the ‘habitable zone’, and then extrapolating that number out, the possibility of billions of planets that could harbor some type of life. If we give those planets a number and then calculate the possibility of how early or how much earlier compared to our earth, those planets formed, and cooled down, you are left with, in my opinion and wide ranging age of those planets with all the ‘stuff’ needed for life.

For the sake of argument, some of those planets could be hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, hundreds of millions or billions of years older than earth. We know that life could evolve faster and differently on those planets, therefore, if I low ball the numbers the real possibility of millions of civilizations, millions of years more advanced than us humans could exist. Therefore it makes real mathematical, statistical and scientific sense that they could have the technology to not only find us but visit us.

Let’s trim that number down even further. Maybe there is only a hundred thousand planets with life hundreds of thousands of years more evolved than ours. You still see the possibility, yes? What’s even more amazing, is that that number of a hundred thousand, or a million civilizations out there more advanced than us and looking for other intelligent life forms, could be just the numbers from our own Milky Way Galaxy! Or not. Perhaps we are alone in the Universe. But that’s not likely and in my view it’s very likely some of that life in the universe is able to visit us.

I’m not using a true believer pie in the sky argument here I’m throwing out scientific consensus and saying that my theory is every bit as likely as your theory that it isn’t likely. I’m using the same science to say it is highly likely. Yes?

edit on 26-3-2014 by amazing because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-3-2014 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by amazing
 


Just as an aside, and it really only is to give us something to think about, a cockroach is actually probably more advanced than a human. It can exist in climates and conditions we cannot or would certainly choose not to, and as the old saying goes, would probably be the only animal to survive a truly catastrophic event on this planet. Now, how many cockroaches have been to the moon, or how many would even have the concept of what a moon is despite their millions of years of evolution?

My point is that 'advanced civilisation' should not be taken to be always of the Star Trek/Wars variety. There may be planets out their teeming with cockroach and they may be at the pinnacle of the foodchain hence being the most advanced - doesn't mean they are going to be crossing the universe any time soon.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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uncommitted
reply to post by amazing
 


Just as an aside, and it really only is to give us something to think about, a cockroach is actually probably more advanced than a human. It can exist in climates and conditions we cannot or would certainly choose not to, and as the old saying goes, would probably be the only animal to survive a truly catastrophic event on this planet. Now, how many cockroaches have been to the moon, or how many would even have the concept of what a moon is despite their millions of years of evolution?

My point is that 'advanced civilisation' should not be taken to be always of the Star Trek/Wars variety. There may be planets out their teeming with cockroach and they may be at the pinnacle of the foodchain hence being the most advanced - doesn't mean they are going to be crossing the universe any time soon.



Right. The intelligence to create a technological civilization may not mean "higher evolution". As species go, there are many others that have reached the pinnacle of evolution more than humans have, such as sharks or crocodiles (or cockroaches), who have not really needed to evolve any farther for a couple 100 million years.

Human evolution has led to better prospects of survivability for individuals, but as a species, sharks, crocs, and cockroaches have also seemed to have evolved far enough to ensure their survivability as a species.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by amazing
 


Good explanation.

I think where we disagree is in the final paragraphs.

My view is that the nearest star is 16.3 light years away. If we were generous then we could say craft travel at the speed of light at all times and there's a solar system at each star. If there were 1Bn advanced civilisations it'd take 16.3Bn light years to travel around these stars from the point a civilisation is capable of traveling at the speed of light.

As the Universe is younger than this, it's clear that even being incredibly generous to the number of planets out there, the Universe is simply too young.

Also if there were millions of civilisations more advanced than ours, don't you think they'd be spending their time finding each other before us? The two effects cancel other out, so it doesn't matter how many civilisations there are - what matters is time.

reply to post by uncommitted
 


Absolutely. Intelligence seems to have a negative effect on survivability of the species. Simple organisms can be frozen for millions of years and subject to massive doses of radiation, yet come to no harm, yet humans are living far beyond our means due to technology and the like.

Considering the enormous amounts of energy required to accelerate an object to near light speed, it's hard to imagine any civillisation not having collapsed due to running out of resources before being capable of interstellar travel and even harder to imagine such an advanced race with limited resources wanting to visit here.
edit on 26-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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TrueMessiah
As evidence we have:

Sumerian text acknowledging "Gods/Annunaki" and their offspring
Testimony from numerous abductees and UFO observers
Egyptian Book Of The Dead
Translation of ancient relics such as the CDT Plates detailing galactic history
The Urantia Book
Occasional leaks of info...the most recent coming from Prime Minister Medvedev
The Terra Papers
Unexplained phonomena such as crop circles/pyramid construction
The RA Material
Whistle blowers such as William Cooper who had gov. connections
The Book of Enoch
Revelations written and told by participants in projects such as Montauk
The Roswell papers
Respected contactees/channelers such as Alex Collier
The Emerald Tablets of Thoth
A multitude of books written on the subject FOR FREE


You know, when you rattle off a list like this, citing a lot of "evidence," it only brings it more to mind how even with all this, there is no proof. One would think that with this large, significant amount of evidence there would be at least one bit of solid, undeniable proof. Yet there isn't. So in a way, a list like this actually undermines the argument in favor of ET life. Noting all this only brings the lack of proof into sharper contrast.

As others have pointed out, it's hard to comprehend just how huge the universe is. Maybe the odds are good that life spontaneously arises (or is created by "God") all over the place. However, arguing that also brings the apparent lack of proof into contrast. If the universe is crawling with life, how much harder do we need to look for it to become apparent?

Of course, the reality of the matter is probably that there is life, but it's very rare, and it's halfway across the universe in a galaxy we only see as a tiny smear on a deep space photo. We'll never find them, they'll never find us, and on a practical level that makes them essentially non-existent.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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Blue Shift
...Of course, the reality of the matter is probably that there is life, but it's very rare, and it's halfway across the universe in a galaxy we only see as a tiny smear on a deep space photo. We'll never find them, they'll never find us, and on a practical level that makes them essentially non-existent.


Heck, half-way (or even a quarter-way) across the galaxy may be far enough to make us finding them/them finding us very difficult and unlikely.

I have said before that there may be other life in the universe/galaxy, but for all intents and purposes we may consider ourselves to be "alone" in the same way a castaway on a deserted island may be "alone"...

...Sure, there are other people out there beyond the shores of that deserted island, but without a means for that castaway to cross that ocean or to communicate over the vast distance across that ocean, he may never see those people, and could consider himself to be "alone". And if those people across the ocean don't have any indication of this guy being there, they may never happen across him.


edit on 3/26/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


Right...however history tells a different story of rafts, boats, ships, trains, planes, and the internet. So.....



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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Double post. See post below

edit on 3/26/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 03:30 PM
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game over man
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


Right...however history tells a different story of rafts, boats, ships, trains, planes, and the internet. So.....


So there has never been a castaway who was alone on an island for a long time, if not for the rest of his life?

Besides, it was an analogy.

Even if an ET civilization could detect our industrial society by analyzing the spectrum of our atmosphere from afar (or something similar), like we can do rough spectral analyses of exoplanet atmospheres today, they would need to be within 500 light years of earth to be able to see spectrum of that light given off 500 years ago when we began to be an industrial society.

I suppose prior to that (say 3000 years ago -- light that has traveled 3000 light years), an analysis of our atmosphere may have held some circumstantial signs of life, such as an abundance of fires. At 3000 light years would be about 3% of the way across the galaxy. Prior to that (i.e., light that can be seen farther away), an an analysis of our atmosphere may make earth seem not that remarkable of a planet to bother to visit.

An analysis of the light from Earth from prior to 3000 years ago may just seem like any other unremarkable island with no sign of civilization that can be seen from a ship you may be on as the ship passes by.


edit on 3/26/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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Blue Shift

You know, when you rattle off a list like this, citing a lot of "evidence," it only brings it more to mind how even with all this, there is no proof. One would think that with this large, significant amount of evidence there would be at least one bit of solid, undeniable proof. Yet there isn't. So in a way, a list like this actually undermines the argument in favor of ET life. Noting all this only brings the lack of proof into sharper contrast.


Now with all of that info what does that tell you about the secret aspect of it all? There is a reason for there not being disclosure yet. The implications are too great and there are agendas in place which depend on secrecy in order to be effective. These agendas are not of a positive nature. This is the general consensus among the sources I listed. Now despite concrete proof do we just toss this out and disregard it? This entire drama and all the mechanics of operation that's said to be playing out is a definite possibility to be considered.


As others have pointed out, it's hard to comprehend just how huge the universe is. Maybe the odds are good that life spontaneously arises (or is created by "God") all over the place. However, arguing that also brings the apparent lack of proof into contrast. If the universe is crawling with life, how much harder do we need to look for it to become apparent?


The vastness of just a galaxy is astronomical in itself. I just can't see only one planet in a whole universe being the sole supporter of intelligent life. The odds are very good. You ask how much harder do we need to look but fact of the matter is....we can't look very far at all. We can't even explore the outer reaches of our own solar system let alone a galaxy or universe. Denying the phonomena due to an inability to transverse limitless space wouldn't be a fair assessment.


Of course, the reality of the matter is probably that there is life, but it's very rare, and it's halfway across the universe in a galaxy we only see as a tiny smear on a deep space photo. We'll never find them, they'll never find us, and on a practical level that makes them essentially non-existent.


Never say never. As long as humanity continues to exist, the technological advances will enable us to venture to their territory. How do you know life is rare light years away? It's quite the contrary according to what has been revealed aside from hardcore proof. According to the sources, not just life but intelligent life has already found us..... allegedly created us and has existed eons before us. You speak on this subject as if you refuse to take any of the sources and research involved into any consideration. Remember, just because the likely reality of extraterristrials hasn't been officially brought to your attention in the suitable manner you desire, doesn't mean that the reality in itself is just automatically nonexistent either.
edit on 26-3-2014 by TrueMessiah because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-3-2014 by TrueMessiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:34 PM
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Great point Soylent however there's exo planet candidates that are much closer than 500 light years away that we can study in the meantime and look for bio signatures and more possibly one day.

en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:57 PM
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TrueMessiah
Now with all of that info what does that tell you about the secret aspect of it all? There is a reason for there not being disclosure yet. The implications are too great and there are agendas in place which depend on secrecy in order to be effective. These agendas are not of a positive nature. This is the general consensus among the sources I listed. Now despite concrete proof do we just toss this out and disregard it? This entire drama and all the mechanics of operation that's said to be playing out is a definite possibility to be considered.

So for thousands of years, there has been worldwide agencies in place to keep the world from finding out the real facts? That's ridiculous. You realize the only way you keep this fantasy list alive, is to create a fantasy reason of secret agencies with secret hidden agendas, correct? A fantasy of a fantasy is a pretty convenient excuse for not needing any real evidence. You have a list of unproven events, backed up by an unproven hidden agenda. You can make any fantasy real by doing this. Again, ridiculous. When speaking about the enormity of alien life visiting Earth, you can't base things on stories or what you want to believe. You need actual facts.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by game over man
 


I don't see how believing in your version of "A", means I don't believe in "B". For instance, I believe in God; maybe not the Christian God or the Hindu God or the Hebrew God; but God. If I do not believe in their version or their text, that doesn't negate my belief in the deity.

Now to aliens. Just because I am skeptical of those who have claimed they have seen aliens, alien-craft, etc., doesn't mean I do not believe in them or believe we are alone in the universe.

This is logic 101 stuff here.....



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 12:24 AM
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aliens but no God.

ok!

when u meet them, ask them about a creator?




posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 08:14 AM
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game over man

Great point Soylent however there's exo planet candidates that are much closer than 500 light years away that we can study in the meantime and look for bio signatures and more possibly one day.

en.m.wikipedia.org...


I know there are potentially-habitable exoplanets that close.

I'll go as far to say that I think some of those may even HAVE life. However, while I think life may be abundant out there, advanced civilizations may not be --- and I mean advanced civilizations who not only have the capability of detecting the presence of our Earth civilization, but also have the capability to come visit us.

There may be no advanced ET civilization like that (or even intelligent life at all) who are that close to us.


edit on 3/27/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 09:17 AM
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Ectoplasm8
So for thousands of years, there has been worldwide agencies in place to keep the world from finding out the real facts? That's ridiculous. You realize the only way you keep this fantasy list alive, is to create a fantasy reason of secret agencies with secret hidden agendas, correct? A fantasy of a fantasy is a pretty convenient excuse for not needing any real evidence. You have a list of unproven events, backed up by an unproven hidden agenda. You can make any fantasy real by doing this. Again, ridiculous. When speaking about the enormity of alien life visiting Earth, you can't base things on stories or what you want to believe. You need actual facts.


Guilty as charged:


TrueMessiah
To deny the validity of all these sources as a whole and not take all of the info into perspective while using discernment, inner resonance, and critical thinking is asinine


Is that how you're going to brush this off, as all fantasy? Who said it was covered up for thousands of years? The Sumerians and Egyptians wrote and drew about the alien presence. There is quite a deal of information about the shadowy secret gov. and it's affiliations with ET 's plus the secrecy behind it which has taken place since the 1940s. You obviously want to remain oblivious to pertinent information that should be taken into consideration in favor of waiting on press conference level admission of the alien presence. Well keep on waiting.

edit on 27-3-2014 by TrueMessiah because: (no reason given)



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