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Skeptics: Do you want to be alone in the Universe?

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posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:08 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

There is little doubt in my mind that there are numbers of occurrences of a good many things that defy explanation. The term I've heard and I like to use is "high strangeness". UFOs fall into that category.

Their nature, purpose, and origin are a mystery. I don't think they are a result of something from millions or billions of physical miles or light years away. I'm prepared to be wrong.

My all-time favorite thread here on ATS remains this one - Me and "Them" - Alien Experiences by ritzmann.


I like it for a number of reasons. First of all it's a well written and compelling account. If you're pressed for time, read just his posts in the thread and I doubt you'll regret it. Secondly, Jeff along with being an incredible craftsman of fine guitars, is extremely adept at image analysis and has been an invaluable asset in looking at some of the photographic evidence contributed to this forum.

Jeff has frequently been branded a 'skeptic' or 'debunker'. What he is, is a guy who knows something is afoot and takes great umbrage at the goofs and charlatans who make a mockery out of the topic which makes it even harder to get the sort of minds needed devoted to take it all seriously.

This is something I think we should all keep in mind - skeptics aren't the enemy and are the best allies we have to come up with any sort of answers. Your average Greerite or channeler nincompoop or zealous fanatic believer is doing absolutely nothing towards advancing the knowledge base on this topic and are doing way more harm than good. In my opinion.

I don't want to believe. I want to know.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by ColCurious
 


Evidence can be strong or weak.

We have evidence of oceans underneath the surface of a couple of our moons because water plumes and vapors have hit our orbiting satellites.

I listed many links above. I don't care if any of you remain skeptical. Please don't be rude proclaiming I'm here to make you a believer of the evidence we have. Oddly enough the evidence is life on earth and the consistencies we discover and the unknown discoveries we find in the universe.

I think it's ridiculous that evidence of alien life is actually observing an alien. I don't think that would be called evidence anymore. Maybe proof? Sorry I'm not an English language professor/lawyer like you.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


I gave you a star but I don't know why I'm being labeled as a blossom gold child type. Some people even agreed we will discover alien life in our lifetime, however the majority of you all, are extremely skeptical of this discovery?

Does evidence =discovery in science? Someone please show the rookie.

I understand we can discover evidence, but what when we discover a new species in the ocean or jungle? Is that evidence or a discovery?

So with that saying, we have no evidence of life elsewhere in the universe?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by game over man
 


How else would you gain knowledge??
Also, english is not my native language either, but if we start arguing terminology now we might aswell talk religion...

Alright, I'm out. I don't know why I came in this thread in the frist place. Take care.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by immoralist
 


Good reply. I think we are in agreement here.

You do see the problem with skepticism though. Inherently it is a good thing, but sometimes it is just as bad as blind faith. These boards are full of blind skepticism and of course, blind faith.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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game over man

I gave you a star but I don't know why I'm being labeled as a blossom gold child type.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I have no intent to label you, at all. I'm speaking generally.

I'm sure we can all agree evidence does not equal proof. Both sides in a jury trial will generally supply all sorts of evidence. I think there's evidence that there could be life elsewhere, but it does not raise to the level of proof, for me or for any generally accepted scientific resource. When we have it, it'll be Big News.

And we'll still be miles (I think) from going from "look a fossil of a single celled creature in a meteor" to extraterrestrial visitors from far, far away.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by game over man
 





I understand we can discover evidence, but what when we discover a new species in the ocean or jungle? Is that evidence or a discovery?

That's a discovery , we already have evidence of life on this planet.



So with that saying, we have no evidence of life elsewhere in the universe?

We have no evidence of life anywhere other than this planet , looking at the Universe for life is an impossible task we should concentrate on the likely candidates in our Solar System and then our own Galaxy as it itself is huge and likely brimming with life.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Thank you, I agree with your stance and a few others in this thread. However I think not only will we find proof in a meteor or living life in our solar system, I am also optimistic we will create technology to detect life on another planet.

I posted a link that we determined the color of a planet. We are working on determing the components of exo-atmospheres....Certain gases in an atmosphere detect life. We are also looking for theoretical technologies such as Dyson Spheres for example.To me, I feel we are right around the corner to a major discovery in our lifetime.
edit on 26-3-2014 by game over man because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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amazing

uncommitted

amazing

bastion

amazing

bastion
reply to post by amazing
 


The science is the Universe had to expand enough to cool for all the stars to form and produce elements stable enough that life could evolve from them without rapidly reacting (see Carbon on Earth for example) or for the supernovae to explode to create elements heavier than iron.

There simply hasn't been enough time for life to be in significant a number and progression in the Universe for it to have visited Earth. From the vast majority of the Universe Earth doesn't even exist yet as light since its formation hasn't reached there, let alone cooled down enough to look as if it could support life and prompt a visit.
edit on 25-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


Not sure how you can say that. How long is long enough? Are you saying that every planet is exactly the same age as earth when it comes to how long they've been cooled down enough to support life. Are you saying that no planet in the universe could be million or billions of years older than earth?

Nobody really knows the answers to these questions. Again, using science and math, it is very possible that some planets could have cooled down hundreds of millions if not billions of years earlier than earth did and it also is very possible that life evolved in completely different ways and on a completely different timescale than that of earth. You must keep your mind open to the possibilities.


No there's certainly ones out there older than Earth. The problem comes from the way various elements are created, there simply aren't many elements until supernovae start exploding so there's a cut off point before there are enough stable elements and a large variety if different elements before intelligent life can exist. The available time frame and minuscule size of the Earth in relation to the Universe and planets more suitable for life pretty much rule out it having visited here.


edit on 25-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


We can't be certain of that though. Therefore you can't say that you are ruling out other life forms visiting earth based on just an opinion. That's the furthest thing from science. You're not using science. You're using skepticism as a religion. eh?


No, you apparently are using belief without fact as a religion are you not? Is that really enough for you?


Nope. How do you figure. He's saying that it's impossible for an alien civilization to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. That's Dogma without benefit of looking at data. I'm saying that it is possible for an advanced alien civilization to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. How is that using belief without fact as a religion?


If you look again at my response, it was around the comment - "Therefore you can't say that you are ruling out other life forms visiting earth based on just an opinion. That's the furthest thing from science. You're not using science. You're using skepticism as a religion. eh? "

And I was stating that the opinion was not based on any science, purely belief, the poster stated "using skeptisism as a religion", I was merely commenting on belief without fact is actually the basis of most religions and is therefore more appropriate to other groups than those labelled as skeptics who are doing quite the opposite.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by gortex
 


I think you and others are saying the exact same thing as me, and you don't sound so skeptical either. Thank you. I think this thread is making the point between evidence and discovery?

So maybe hardcore skeptics think we will never make the discovery, however is there evidence? "Yes there is evidence but the vastness of space we will never make such a discovery." Which is where I disagree. Thank you



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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uncommitted

amazing

uncommitted

amazing

bastion

amazing

bastion
reply to post by amazing
 


The science is the Universe had to expand enough to cool for all the stars to form and produce elements stable enough that life could evolve from them without rapidly reacting (see Carbon on Earth for example) or for the supernovae to explode to create elements heavier than iron.

There simply hasn't been enough time for life to be in significant a number and progression in the Universe for it to have visited Earth. From the vast majority of the Universe Earth doesn't even exist yet as light since its formation hasn't reached there, let alone cooled down enough to look as if it could support life and prompt a visit.
edit on 25-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


Not sure how you can say that. How long is long enough? Are you saying that every planet is exactly the same age as earth when it comes to how long they've been cooled down enough to support life. Are you saying that no planet in the universe could be million or billions of years older than earth?

Nobody really knows the answers to these questions. Again, using science and math, it is very possible that some planets could have cooled down hundreds of millions if not billions of years earlier than earth did and it also is very possible that life evolved in completely different ways and on a completely different timescale than that of earth. You must keep your mind open to the possibilities.


No there's certainly ones out there older than Earth. The problem comes from the way various elements are created, there simply aren't many elements until supernovae start exploding so there's a cut off point before there are enough stable elements and a large variety if different elements before intelligent life can exist. The available time frame and minuscule size of the Earth in relation to the Universe and planets more suitable for life pretty much rule out it having visited here.


edit on 25-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


We can't be certain of that though. Therefore you can't say that you are ruling out other life forms visiting earth based on just an opinion. That's the furthest thing from science. You're not using science. You're using skepticism as a religion. eh?


No, you apparently are using belief without fact as a religion are you not? Is that really enough for you?


Nope. How do you figure. He's saying that it's impossible for an alien civilization to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. That's Dogma without benefit of looking at data. I'm saying that it is possible for an advanced alien civilization to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. How is that using belief without fact as a religion?


If you look again at my response, it was around the comment - "Therefore you can't say that you are ruling out other life forms visiting earth based on just an opinion. That's the furthest thing from science. You're not using science. You're using skepticism as a religion. eh? "

And I was stating that the opinion was not based on any science, purely belief, the poster stated "using skeptisism as a religion", I was merely commenting on belief without fact is actually the basis of most religions and is therefore more appropriate to other groups than those labelled as skeptics who are doing quite the opposite.


Agreeing with what you are saying and I think I cleared up my stance a little in the above posts. The problem is with someone claiming to be a skeptic and then doing the same thing as a believer. Not looking at or considering the evidence and not taking time to look at the possibility of a theory or hypothesis. Skeptics can be just as bad as believers.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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game over man
reply to post by immoralist
 


A big "could"....

You're not giving it much thought.... just give up huh? We should stop digging for dinosaurs too right? We should stop exploring the ocean and ancient sites, language, art, and literature?

Edit to add: Skeptical/pessimistic alien debaters have already come to the conclusion based on their observation of the universe:

1. We will never travel the stars

2. We will never be visited by ET

3. We will never be able to communicate with ET

4. We will never be able to detect their presence

IMO you observe the universe the way you "want" to perceive it. You feel more comfortable alone in the universe and that we will never evolve. This opinion has some religious influence and is a pretty simple way of thinking too. "Oh you believe in aliens? Well it's simply understood they pretty much don't exist because we will never make contact. Simple."
edit on 26-3-2014 by game over man because: (no reason given)


That is a very immature post based on your opinion. To be skeptical means not to believe without facts. Your 4 points don't reflect the thoughts of (almost) anyone I've ever seen posting on ATS during the last 6 years or so under different user names.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by uncommitted
 


Ha! I disagree all of those numbered points are fact right now! A skeptic could agree with all of them. I'm not sure what you are talking about, and you insulted me, something I pointed out earlier. Thank you.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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game over man
reply to post by uncommitted
 


Ha! I disagree all of those numbered points are fact right now! A skeptic could agree with all of them. I'm not sure what you are talking about, and you insulted me, something I pointed out earlier. Thank you.


Anyone could agree with them, you are correct, but then most people don't like to say what will or will not happen at any undetermined future date because - guess what - we don't know. All of the points you listed start with the words 'we will never'..... not 'we have never' - I wasn't being intentionally rude, in fact I thought considering the logic of your post I was being quite polite, but whatever, you obviously have fixed opinions.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by game over man
 





I just find it interesting so many minds have been made up, and those people are skeptical to the point that we will never evolve.


Those people who have made their minds up are skeptical?





Do you know what skepticism is?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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immoralist
reply to post by game over man
 


I dont understand where you got any of this from anything I wrote honestly...


Op seems to think a skeptic and a believer are one and the same, that both have their minds made up just on opposite sides of the spectrum.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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game over man
What caused you to give up the search?


Skeptics..They never searched in the first place.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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InhaleExhale

immoralist
reply to post by game over man
 


I dont understand where you got any of this from anything I wrote honestly...


Op seems to think a skeptic and a believer are one and the same, that both have their minds made up just on opposite sides of the spectrum.


And he is correct in that assessment.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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amazing

InhaleExhale

immoralist
reply to post by game over man
 


I dont understand where you got any of this from anything I wrote honestly...


Op seems to think a skeptic and a believer are one and the same, that both have their minds made up just on opposite sides of the spectrum.


And he is correct in that assessment.




How so?

How is a skeptic a believer or disbeliever, a skeptic will sit in the middle until one side is able to sway them with evidence.

A person saying we are alone and no aliens are visiting earth are not skeptical but believers or nonbelievers of what believers of visitation believe.


This thread has been one of the best exercises in insanity I have been witness to,

My screws are loose enough to have debate trolls that need to create new definitions for existing words.


edit on 26-3-2014 by InhaleExhale because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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InhaleExhale

amazing

InhaleExhale

immoralist
reply to post by game over man
 


I dont understand where you got any of this from anything I wrote honestly...


Op seems to think a skeptic and a believer are one and the same, that both have their minds made up just on opposite sides of the spectrum.


And he is correct in that assessment.





How so?

How is a skeptic a believer or disbeliever, a skeptic will sit in the middle until one side is able to sway them with evidence.

A person saying we are alone and no aliens are visiting earth are not skeptical but believers or nonbelievers of what believers of visitation believe.


This thread has been of one best exercises in insanity I have been witness to,

My screws are loose enough to have debate trolls that need to create new definitions for existing words.



No, it's not insanity. You, my friend, seem to have a solid grasp on the definition of 'skeptical'. Yet, as this thread and many others' on ATS illustrate, the vast majority of self proclaimed Skeptics, are as close minded and brainwashed as the true believers.

There is a poster on this thread that is telling me that it is impossible for Aliens to have visited earth based on the age of the Universe. How is that open minded and skeptical, by your definition? Is that not as close minded as the believer?

That, is the problem. Minds are closed and belief systems are in place before investigation and analysis of data.



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